Pushing the roll and stress

[mike wightman]

I have spent a lot of time lately with the Fria Ligan games Alien, Twilight 2000 and Bladerunner. When they kickstarted a d20 version of DoD and it included pushing the roll and stress of sorts it struck me that these systems are a very elegant way to handle tension, sanity, fear etc.

The other system of note that has made its way into many modern games is the idea of advantage/disadvantage or boon/bane to use the MgT term.

Pushing the roll.

A player may choose to roll the dice for a task again, but they have to take the second roll result.

Stress

Pushing the roll generates a point of stress, stress may also be gained when you join combat, see something horrific etc

When you first take stress make a determination roll - you cannot push this roll. If you succeed you gain a boon on every roll you make but if you fail you gain a bane on every roll until you manage your stress.

Determination - should this be a new characteristic, or should I just use the determination rule already in the game?

you can still gain stress points as follows -
every 1 you roll on the 2d/3d skill check
every comrade you can observe directly who is critically wounded or killed
further horrors for the referee to decide.

Stress thresholds - as stress builds you will approach a variety of thresholds, the lower tier can cause temporary affects such as shakes, the higher tier can lead to permanent mental illness.

Managing stress
personal - stop what you are doing and take time to get yourself under control
leadership skill - someone with leadership skill can make a roll to negate or reduce stress gains in others.

This is a work in progress.

 

[kilemall]

I’m familiar with the mechanic having played both Aliens and TW2K.

In the Aliens game one scenario had me as an android and basically immune to all the terror. I played it up using an unnatural HAL voice and saying logical things in a manner appropriate to a board room meeting not a tactical horror battle.

I suppose one would use the optional MgT sanity or SAN characteristic as a temp hit.

One major difference is there would be Traveller characters that are close to ‘losing’ it starting with a lower stat.

 

[mike wightman]

Other than add new stats - a stress track and a determination characteristic - is there anything in Traveller that can be adapted?
Determination is used in the Experience section - it is a flat roll of 2d vs a target number with DMs.

Stress track could be a base value with additional capacity due to certain skills and experience, or again should I just make both of these new characteristics that are added to the UPP?

 

[mike wightman]

Last weekend I ran Death Station - again - as a halloween special.

Each character had a determination characteristic rolled on 2d, with a bonus of +1 if they had any skill in leader, tactics, forward obs, if they served in the army or marines and a bonus of +2 if they were an ex-scout or ex-Other.

I set the stress threshold as 6 and used the stress table from Alien.

 

[aramis]

MYZ and Forbidden Lands use attribute damage, not stress. And only on pushed rolls. If wanting to use the push rules but keeping Traveller's 2d6 motif, you should take your cues from these two, not Alien.

T2K 4E uses a different rolling mode. as it's a dice step system A=d12, B=d10, C=d8, D=D6; 10-12=2 successes, 6-9 = 1 success. the formula for wound points is (Str+Agl)/4, stress is (Int+Emp)/4. This gives a range of 3 to 6 damage points in either track. Tasks on d(skill)+d(att). Only failed pushed rolls generate damage - physicals to wounds, mentals to stress.

Alien
The key thing about stress in Alien is that, as long as you aren't pushing, it's a benefit. It increases likelyhood of success by adding dice, and unpushed rolls do NOT increase stress. Most of my players tried to keep 2-3 stress.

Keep in mind: base dice have no negatives on 1's, and stress dice 1's only trigger panic checks on a pushed roll. (I had a player get up to 16 stress dice at one point.... rolled no 1's across the pushes. When she snapped...

You've imported only the bad half of the mechanic.

But those sixes are the reason that stress dice don't suck... they add to the roll in ALIEN. None of the other YZE games have them. Pushes that fail in others simply inflict damage.

 

[mike wightman]

Thank you for such constructive comments. I don't have MYZ or Forbidden lands, so I based my rules on what I have.

Due to the post editing rules I have to add to this thread as I go.

Going back to my rules, you must have missed the bit were succeeding in managing stress grants a boon on all subsequent rolls until another stress check is necessary. If you pass the check your stress is still building, until the next threshold, which I set at 6.

I'm toying with introducing events that trigger a stress check regardless of where you are on the stress track. Being dropped into a tank full of spiders the size of small dogs...

 

[kilemall]

And this is where characters can start drinking/use drugs/sex to manage stress, and get addicted to the endorphin generator of choice.

 

[mike wightman]

Drugs are one option, taking time out and considering tactics is another, while a leader can make a difference.

 

[Condottiere]

Different gaming systems have different approaches to the issue, depending on an expected outcome in context of the game.

In Warhammer, you have a morale check, which might or might not be modified; failure being the possibly catastrophic situation of running from an incoming threat, which might get a mulligan by shooting the messenger.

Drugs can result in impaired judgement, maybe dropping Wisdom scores.

Regulating the amount of dice you can throw at a problem can relieve stress, or suddenly create it.

 

[mike wightman]

The model i am trying to emulate is where a little well managed stress is a good thing, but the player knows that too much stress and the character will suffer so they have to manage risk.

 

[mike wightman]

Added combat drug now grants a +2DM to make the determination roll.

 

[mike wightman]

And this is where characters can start drinking/use drugs/sex to manage stress, and get addicted to the endorphin generator of choice.

Blade Runner allows you to disappear for a bit to do such things in order to cope with stress.

 

[aramis]

Blade Runner allows you to disappear for a bit to do such things in order to cope with stress.

Technically, so does Alien. They have very different effects of stress, howwever.

 

[mike wightman]

Yes, and of all the games that use it I think the Alien version is the closest to what I want to do.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

I have spent a lot of time lately with the Fria Ligan games Alien, Twilight 2000 and Bladerunner. When they kickstarted a d20 version of DoD and it included pushing the roll and stress of sorts it struck me that these systems are a very elegant way to handle tension, sanity, fear etc.

The other system of note that has made its way into many modern games is the idea of advantage/disadvantage or boon/bane to use the MgT term.

Pushing the roll.

A player may choose to roll the dice for a task again, but they have to take the second roll result.

Stress

Pushing the roll generates a point of stress, stress may also be gained when you join combat, see something horrific etc

When you first take stress make a determination roll - you cannot push this roll. If you succeed you gain a boon on every roll you make but if you fail you gain a bane on every roll until you manage your stress.

Determination - should this be a new characteristic, or should I just use the determination rule already in the game?

you can still gain stress points as follows -
every 1 you roll on the 2d/3d skill check
every comrade you can observe directly who is critically wounded or killed
further horrors for the referee to decide.

Stress thresholds - as stress builds you will approach a variety of thresholds, the lower tier can cause temporary affects such as shakes, the higher tier can lead to permanent mental illness.

Managing stress
personal - stop what you are doing and take time to get yourself under control
leadership skill - someone with leadership skill can make a roll to negate or reduce stress gains in others.

This is a work in progress.

Sounds like you're making an expansion on T5's Sanity rules

 

[mike wightman]

That's one way to look at it

I am now committed to adding Determination as an additional characteristic, so I am now wondering if I can treat stress a bit like wounds.

In physical combat you can take Str+Dex+End and then be dead

so could I make the psychological "combat" of stress, and sanity, something like Int+Det+End.

One reduced to 0 means stressed, make a Det check or be disadvantaged on rolls until you rest/take drugs/rally to a leader, two reduced to 0 and roll on the Alien stress chart or make a Det check to continue acting but now you are disadvantaged, all three means insanity of some type...

Hmm, could social "combat " be modelled by reducing Int+Det+Soc (or Int+Edu+Soc for purists )

 

[kilemall]

Hmm, could social "combat " be modelled by reducing Int+Det+Soc (or Int+Edu+Soc for purists )

Very interesting. Which one would be the endurance equivalent, and which one would be the base stat for what social combat skills?

 

[Baroun Tardis]

T5 has "Sanity" , defined as "the ability to make reasonable, sound use of the mental characteristics."
You check vs Sanity when faced with various stress events. If you fail the check, you lose one point of Sanity
If San hits zero, then every use of Int or Edu or a skill associated with them gets a mod of "Flux" (d6-d6), and all tasks are "uncertain (1D)" which implies you don't know if you're failing or succeeding, but you're in there doing stuff! Or, perhaps worse, you're convinced you were epically successful at plotting that re-entry and landing course...

There's certain effects in T5 which attack the Int and Edu stats, such as extreme heat or cold. It also mentions that those stats hitting zero is just like Str,Dex,End being zero for purposes of "did they fall down now?"

T5 has "Counsellor" skill , which if you have an hour long talk they can help you regain 1 San. There's also drugs that can help

I think I might steal your idea on Leadership, though, and in my House Rules let Leadership substitute for Counsellor when "in the field", and maybe add a "first aid quick check" option for use of those skills

I'm hesitant for the word "Determination", because that's actually a thing in Classic Traveller - roll vs Determination to continue a self-study or self-improvement program