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Controversial question about a 2300 title

Blue Ghost

Blue Ghost

SOC-14 5K
Knight
Last year I bought and watched "The Wild Geese" with Richard Harris, Richard Burton and Roger Moore.

It was there in the first time of my life that I heard the term to descrbie Africans; "kafer".

I remember a 2300 title called "Kafir Dawn", and couldn't but put two and two together.

Am I being overly sensitive and paranoid by connecting two abstract items, or is there a subtle connection that should be flushed out?

I'd appreciate any response.
 
Kafer roots

The term in wild geese would be "kaffir", the module is "Kafer Dawn", Käfer is German for beetle. Kaffir probalby comes from the Arabic "kafir" meaning unbeliver.
 
Blue Ghost said:
Last year I bought and watched "The Wild Geese" with Richard Harris, Richard Burton and Roger Moore.

It was there in the first time of my life that I heard the term to descrbie Africans; "kafer".

I remember a 2300 title called "Kafir Dawn", and couldn't but put two and two together.
Click to expand...

Kaffir - South African pejorative term for negros, comes from Arabic.

Käfer - German term for beetle, pronounced keh-fah. Volkswagen beetles were called Käfers.
There's a VW custom shop in Seabrook, Texas, called 'Käferhaus.'


Blue Ghost said:
Am I being overly sensitive and paranoid by connecting two abstract items, or is there a subtle connection that should be flushed out?
Click to expand...

Lighten up. Political Incorrectness is okay.
 
There's a note in a few entries about the Kafers which brings up this exact point. In 2300, the Americans refer to them as "bugs", Australians as "bunyips", and so on. They're all perajorative slang for an enemy in reference to the carapace on their backs which make them look vaguely like insects.

The entry, which points out that Kafer, which is actually the German "Käfer." In GDW publications is translated as the German word for "bug." At least one of the entries (I think it's in the Kafer Sourcebook) points out that the derivation is not from the South African term "Kaffir." GDW also incessantly points out that "Kafer" is German slang for a young pretty girl (which I've always been curious if that's some 1980s German slang or if it's something GDW made up to be current in 2300).

As for the connection, there's one you could be tempted to make in equating that the aliens and blacks are both "violent and stupid." However, you have to keep in mind that as stereotyping groups go, this has always been the case to characterize people you don't like as violent and stupid (or violent because they're stupid)*. The average American thinks of Arabs as violent and stupid since the Mid-East wars have come into the American consciousness. As a flip-side of this, when I was traveling in China like a year ago, many Chinese characterized their perception of Americans as ... violent and stupid.
 
epicenter00 said:
There's a note in a few entries about the Kafers which brings up this exact point. In 2300, the Americans refer to them as "bugs", Australians as "bunyips", and so on. They're all perajorative slang for an enemy in reference to the carapace on their backs which make them look vaguely like insects.

The entry, which points out that Kafer, which is actually the German "Käfer." In GDW publications is translated as the German word for "bug." At least one of the entries (I think it's in the Kafer Sourcebook) points out that the derivation is not from the South African term "Kaffir." GDW also incessantly points out that "Kafer" is German slang for a young pretty girl (which I've always been curious if that's some 1980s German slang or if it's something GDW made up to be current in 2300).

As for the connection, there's one you could be tempted to make in equating that the aliens and blacks are both "violent and stupid." However, you have to keep in mind that as stereotyping groups go, this has always been the case to characterize people you don't like as violent and stupid (or violent because they're stupid)*. The average American thinks of Arabs as violent and stupid since the Mid-East wars have come into the American consciousness. As a flip-side of this, when I was traveling in China like a year ago, many Chinese characterized their perception of Americans as ... violent and stupid.
Click to expand...

That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks. I never got into 2300 because I had a lot of other stuff going on my life at the time. But I remember seeing the title, and when I saw the film I couldn't help but connect the two. I was hoping it wasn't a sabutle racist jab, and I'm glad it's turned out not to be the case.

Thanks again.
 
Fwiw

Wikipedia defines Kafir here.

From the opening section:
Kafir is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate". In the Islamic doctrinal sense, the term refers to a person who does not recognize God (Allah) or the prophethood of Muhammad (i.e., any non-Muslim) or who hides, denies, or covers the "truth". In cultural terms, it is seen as a derogatory term[1] used to describe an unbeliever, non-Muslims, apostate from Islam and even between Muslims of different sects. It is usually translated into English as "infidel" or "unbeliever".

From the section called "Use outside Islam":
"...In South Africa, the word kaffir eventually became a racial slur, applied pejoratively or offensively by some whites to African blacks or to dark-skinned persons in general. In Jamaica, it is applied by some Jamaicans of Indian ancestry to Jamaicans of African ancestry."

From me:
I have come across both uses (Islamic and racial slur) of the term and tend to look at the context to try to figure out which is meant.

Hope this helps
 
epicenter00 said:
GDW also incessantly points out that "Kafer" is German slang for a young pretty girl (which I've always been curious if that's some 1980s German slang or if it's something GDW made up to be current in 2300).
Click to expand...

It's 80's and current ... käfer for a young girl
 
epicenter00 said:
(Snippety snip snip snip) However, you have to keep in mind that as stereotyping groups go, this has always been the case to characterize people you don't like as violent and stupid (or violent because they're stupid)*.
Click to expand...

Probably because the Käfers ARE stupid and violent until you've beaten them with a sufficiently large and heavy stick in order to raise their intelligence to a level just above a fairly large rock... ;)

Of course, once you've beaten them with the stick, their intelligence rises until they are capable of taking said stick from you, and using said stick, are imparting even more violence upon your own head.

Catch-22 anyone? :devil:
 
Redcap said:
Probably because the Käfers ARE stupid and violent until you've beaten them with a sufficiently large and heavy stick in order to raise their intelligence to a level just above a fairly large rock... ;)
Click to expand...

That's been a problem I've had with the Kafer Sourcebook since I figured it what was really going on. For years, I was part of that bandwagon that believed it was incredible and brilliant. Then I realized that it was a 104-page justification of why it was okay to gun down Kafers en masse and that Kafers are the Orcs of 2300. What 2300 took 104 pages to do, Dungeons and Dragons did in two words: Chaotic Evil.
 
Yeah, pretty much. Kafers were designed to be implacable and impossible to negotiate with. Any nuances do not change the fact that their role in 2300AD is to be mowed down like grass.
 
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>their role in 2300AD is to be mowed down like grass

orcs are usually easy cannon fodder and stay that way .... kafers are a nasty surprise hiding in an orcs shell

my players only made the mistake of hanging around the ambush site for some looting d&d style once

>Kafers were designed to be implacable and impossible to negotiate with.

I was expecting the backdoor series to end with the Ylii giving humans the low-down on Kafers and making communication if not agreement possible. As slaves they must have some way to communicate with the Kafers and occassional (lopsided and short term) deals must be possible with one faction or another in such a fragmented society provided the faction can be reached by the ylii intermediaries

just think of the sheer confusion inherent in an adventure like 'deliver this to kaffer X but pick up ylii negotiator Z on the way' for a small party in a thorez courier for example
 
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Redcap said:
Probably because the Käfers ARE stupid and violent until you've beaten them with a sufficiently large and heavy stick in order to raise their intelligence to a level just above a fairly large rock... ;)

Of course, once you've beaten them with the stick, their intelligence rises until they are capable of taking said stick from you, and using said stick, are imparting even more violence upon your own head.

Catch-22 anyone? :devil:
Click to expand...

And THAT's why he's called Redcap! ;)
 
LOL

Obviously nothing at all to do with the fact that I served in the Territorial Army (Royal Military Police), then ;)
 
Redcap said:
LOL

Obviously nothing at all to do with the fact that I served in the Territorial Army (Royal Military Police), then ;)
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Nah, it all get's lost in the vernacular, a la Blue Oyster Cult, "Before the Kiss, a Redcap." Perhaps my favorite early BOC song.
 
shaunhilburn said:
Kaffir - South African pejorative term for negros, comes from Arabic. ... Lighten up. Political Incorrectness is okay.
Click to expand...

Not if you spent your life being called a Kaffir, which in Afrikaans is your English '⌧.'

It is an ugly word full of hate, and it is not merely political correctness to be sensitive to it blanco.

As, in South African terms, I am coloured, it remains hard to read around this, in particular as they could have used the French equivalent, caffard (of same origin as kaefir) without the Kaffir implciations. Which were not unknown in the 1980s.

At least one of the entries (I think it's in the Kafer Sourcebook) points out that the derivation is not from the South African term "Kaffir." ...
As for the connection, there's one you could be tempted to make in equating that the aliens and blacks are both "violent and stupid." ...
Click to expand...

I am afraid as a non-white I continue to find this an unpleasant aspect of the otherwise excellent 2300AD universe. And that Americans and Afrikaaner players seem to make this connexion so frequently.
 
It's Kafer, not Kaffir. It's from German for bug, not from the derogatory term. The Kafers DO look like bugs. The confusion was it's similarity to a derogatory term which I think most believe was a complete accident. As an American (like the 2300AD authors) I never heard of the term Kaffir until someone else made a mistake and accused the authors of being racist due to a coincidence. Believe it or not all white Americans aren't racist. Nice stereotypical statement about people being stereotypical. :)
 
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