Puzzles for Players

[robject]

My group like occasional puzzles to solve as part of the game. What puzzles have you seen that make games more engaging?

We've used simple ciphers, and we've used mathematical codes.

I remember a TML posting where a message was encoded into a printout of amino acid chains. It's not necessarily a puzzle, but certainly very interesting.

I bet astronomical puzzles would go over well, either real ("that looks like Orion") or Traveller ("that looks like the route from Regina to Efate").

 

[jappel]

I haven't had a chance to use these, and it's been long enough since I last read the book to recall them in detail, but there are several good puzzles (of the "mysterious mechanism that secures the door" variety) in David Brin's Glory Season. Things like having to figure out the relationships between a variety of icons on movable metal tiles, matching up the correct pairs, to unlock the door.

 

[Gadrin]

My group like occasional puzzles to solve as part of
the game. What puzzles have you seen that make games more engaging?

We've used simple ciphers, and we've used mathematical codes.

I remember a TML posting where a message was encoded into a printout of amino
acid chains. It's not necessarily a puzzle, but certainly very interesting.

I bet astronomical puzzles would go over well, either real ("that looks like
Orion") or Traveller ("that looks like the route from Regina to
Efate").

I'd probably use the same stuff that us GMs and players use. For instance
UWPs and UPPs would exist as actual data in my TU (for a while I didn't see
it that way). UWP is easy, but UPP was a little more abstract IMHO.

So I could see a cypher or code that's built inside a set of Jump Navigation
coords. And incrementing or decrementing them for each jump.

The actual data might see non-sensical (eg, Regina is the first system, Core
is the second, Terra/Earth next, Zhodane in there) but those possess the
requesite data to further the plot/mystery.

A little sloppy but often the UWPs don't cooperate when you need them too!

For D&D years back, I made a crossword puzzle with a few letters filled in to
make a puzzle out of finding out what a scroll or magic item did. The idea
was that the scroll or item had hieroglyphs on them and the crossword was a
representation of that (I didn't have time to make a whole language/glyph
alphabet at the time). Hmmm, I think I had just gotten some graphics software
when I made that too

I had an idea for a Traveller adventure where a Patron had hired a bounty
hunter to get something at an auction for him. He was in the hospital with a
broken leg (skiing accident) and he was certain someone was after him and
hired a professional.

The bounty hunter sent a hacker ahead of schedule (before the auction) to the
TL8 world with TL10/11 gear to map the auction house and hack into the
electronic bidding system. This way she was certain to obtain the item (and
face the opponents who would come for her). The idea was that the auction
house conducted multiple virtual auctions and guests carried hand-comps
supplied by the house with the ability to bid in multiple auctions
simultaneously. THis made the adventure a mapping/hacking puzzle tandem;
followed with a combat conclusion.

Grabbing jump navigation records is a prominent theme in MTU where it's
important to be able to look at a ship's nav records to see where it's been
in the past.


As for actual puzzle examples, I'd have to ponder that a bit more.

>

 

[Gadrin]

Using the data from the actual RPG, I could see giving this
to the players:

C1910C2410D2706D3202

Where it becomes:
C1910
C2410
D2706
D3202

Where C = Regina Subsector and the # is the system hex
D = Aramis and so on, this would be a simple J-6 route
for that Imperiallines Transport we recently posted about
on this BBS.

The original numbers would be found on a hand-comp and
I'd give the players X amount of time to figure out what
it meant before I broke it down for them to the next stage
(if they get nowhere with the original). In some games
players see things immediately, others they're preoccupied
with other things.

>

 

[Gadrin]

Alternately if you didn't want to give the above information so
obviously (as I said some Traveller people will notice right away);
you can give the numbers out in stacks of Imperial Credits.

Bundle #1: has CR 1910,
bundle #2: has CR 2410 and so on.

Number the bundles and possibly wrap them in Something
that reveals the subsector, or if the hex # are unique then
just the numbers. Follow the trail, it leads from Regina to Junidy.

If Imperial Credits are too goofy, find another way to represent
the hex numbers. Invoice on Liters of beer and the lots add up to...

If you don't want to give away actual Credits (cash) to the players
then have a series of pictures of credits, this way they can't spend
it either :rofl:

The idea behind that Imperiallines ship was that they would transport
gold specie (or platinum) for LSP and that someone would steal it.
Further into the adventure they'd arrange a buy with a prospective
client via the X-boat system of messages. I would have the unknown
seller offering "Platinum series of Wine" and sell it by the pound instead
of liter or magnum or whatever; as part of a clue.

Some of it's a little silly, but the more puzzles you make, the more
sophisticated you'll get until you refine the process.

I'd also build-in a system that gives the players X amount of time
to figure things out before I start dropping hints or reveal Part A
of a 3-parter; that sort of thing.

>

 

[Gadrin]

My group like occasional puzzles to solve as part of the game. What puzzles have you seen that make games more engaging?

We've used simple ciphers, and we've used mathematical codes.

I remember a TML posting where a message was encoded into a printout of amino acid chains. It's not necessarily a puzzle, but certainly very interesting.

I bet astronomical puzzles would go over well, either real ("that looks like Orion") or Traveller ("that looks like the route from Regina to Efate").

Well give us some examples of your ciphers and codes; I've been
waiting for you to post

>

 

[Ran Targas]

I've always been very cautious of using puzzles in games because it's hard for them not to appear contrived. Unless clues are provided, most cyphers worth using would be almost impossible to crack. Locks are normally elaborate or tough enough to prevent easy access without the correct key. So, unless one of the PC's has security related skills, a locked door should be an almost impenetrable obstacle (unless, of course, demolition is a possibility).

When I have placed puzzles in the path of players, I normally make a point to give one of the PC's some inside knowledge (based on experience) to give them an advantage. One example is when my players were trying to enter an abandoned Hiver embassy on a frontier world; above the lock was written the entry code in addition problems in simple Hiver numerals. One of the players (a merchant) had once traded with Hivers and, after rolling against INT, realized what the markings were. After decyphering the marks with a hand computer and solving the simple math, the crew opened the lock. Similar clues were left at other doors deeper in the facility. My excuse for giving the clues was that I would expect Hivers to leave clues for other Hivers or allies who may need shelter. If no one could read Hiver script then the doors would have remainded closed.

 

[Gadrin]

I've always been very cautious of using puzzles in games because it's hard for them not to appear contrived. Unless clues are provided, most cyphers worth using would be almost impossible to crack. Locks are normally elaborate or tough enough to prevent easy access without the correct key. So, unless one of the PC's has security related skills, a locked door should be an almost impenetrable obstacle (unless, of course, demolition is a possibility).

I agree.

When I have placed puzzles in the path of players, I normally make a point to give one of the PC's some inside knowledge (based on experience) to give them an advantage. One example is when my players were trying to enter an abandoned Hiver embassy on a frontier world; above the lock was written the entry code in addition problems in simple Hiver numerals. One of the players (a merchant) had once traded with Hivers and, after rolling against INT, realized what the markings were. After decyphering the marks with a hand computer and solving the simple math, the crew opened the lock. Similar clues were left at other doors deeper in the facility. My excuse for giving the clues was that I would expect Hivers to leave clues for other Hivers or allies who may need shelter. If no one could read Hiver script then the doors would have remainded closed.

Interesting. I like.

I've used subdermal implants, little capsules just below the skin so they
stick up and players could remove them without becoming Dr Mengele or doing an autopsy on a dead NPC.

>

 

[Kilgs]

This is for replacing a game mechanic with a puzzle.

One of the better ideas I’ve seen and am hoping to implement came from a post on a fantasy game forum. The GM wanted to make a thief’s job that much more fun and stressful. He pointed out that fighters get to have all sorts of adrenalin-y moments but that lock-picking was completely dull.

The idea is that the player, based on lock difficulty and skill, gets a certain timeframe to put together a puzzle. Imagine a whole table of people waiting silently while the thief tries to work through the puzzle in x minutes. Tension, adrenalin! The puzzle that I’m planning on using is as follows…

http://www.amazon.com/Think-Fun-498...=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1249921311&sr=1-89

I love the idea and now just need to convince the players. But you could use the same thing for any number of mechanics… hacking, data sifting, programming etc.

 

[far-trader]

The problem with puzzles as a substitute for skill checks is we aren't all as gifted as our characters Making the thief solve a puzzle against a timer to pick a lock would be a bit like expecting the fighter to run around the gaming table carrying all the books against a timer to hit with their sword. Not saying it's a bad idea (the puzzle one), I just can't see it working that well. The player of the thief with fantastic lock picking skills may not be a puzzle solver. Just as the player of the fit and trim fighter with fantastic physique may be a classic couch potato.

Ditto puzzles in the game as part of the mystery. Tried it from both sides and it never worked all that well. What seems easy to the ref either gives the players fits or they totally miss it...

...after repeated bashing, several attempted magics, multiple lock pickings (did I say there was a lock?! NO! there is no lock, stop trying to pick it*)

"Well that's it guys, there's no way through this door, let's leave."

Were you even listening when I described the door and the phrase above it in Elven? "Speak Friend and Enter"?



* although, to be fair, the classic original "Pick Lock" skill mentioned solving puzzles, which might extend to riddles, so if the Thief actually tried to pick the lock I'd have to let them roll and if successful give them the "key"...

 

[Gadrin]

Yeah, I think the puzzle should relate to the game at hand, not
something completely abstract.

It might be better for the GM and the Thief to get together during
the campaign (out of character) and compile a list of locks or lock-types.

Such as this compilation I did on Traveller Shipboard Security from the
books:

SHIPBOARD SYSTEMS -- INTERNAL SECURITY


from Double Adventure #06 Night of Conquest p20: Entering the Scotian
Huntress: A palm lock keyed only to the palmprints of the ship's personnel
seals the ship. If the lock is damaged, a signal may be sent by communicator
to cause the computer to open the electronic locks on board.

from Adv 7 Broadsword: The ship's anti-hijack program will prove of some
help, but is not totally foolproof. The program works by monitoring the
location of all large living things aboard ship (by means of infrared sensors
to pick up slight rises in temperature, ultrasonic motion- detectors, and
sensors in the deck plates of certain vital areas which detect the weight of
a body) and sounding an alarm if certain parameters are met (if, for example,
a body suddenly appears in the drive room). The referee must determine the
effectiveness of this program in detecting the commandos, and any delays
which may occur in sounding the alarm. If, for example, the commandos jump
into the computer room, and disable the computer immediately, the alarm will
probably not sound.

from Book 2 Starships: Anti-hijack protects the ship against potential
takeovers. This program constantly monitors conditions within the starship,
and automatically locks the access doors to the bridge and controls when a
hijack situation occurs. Because this system is not foolproof, would-be
hijackers may gain access in spite of the program on a throw of 5 or less.

from Snapshot: The free trader Beowulf has just left Beck's World en route to
Enope with a full load of passengers and cargo. As preparations are made for
the deep space jump, the ship's computer is fully committed to generating a
flight plan - its anti-hijacking surveillance is temporarily suspended. The
crew works busily in the drive room and on the bridge, their attention
directed to their duties. No one realizes the impending situation.

So now your "thief" or spy or pirate who's trying to do something in
the Traveller setting would need:

A. Exposure with each type of security device/feature
B. Offer a reasonable way* for him to overcome or exploit this

* reasonable being a little flexible in the mind of the GM, unless it's
totally hair-brained idea.

>

 

[Kilgs]

You definitely couldn't do it without the player's approval... some people just hate puzzles. But if you worked out a decent mechanic like Skill-Difficulty=n(30 second increments), it could be a lot of fun.

It could also completely backfire but that's playtesting is for

 

[far-trader]

Yep, it could be good with proper prep and the right group. If everyone has fun all the better

I just have this image of the "thief" trying to do the puzzle to pick the lock and the "fighter" (played by a better puzzle solver) standing over his shoulder at the table saying "this piece goes there... "

If you like the idea though, for some more thoughts, I seem to recall our group once tossed around the idea of having the "Bard" actually sing for his spells.

And I toyed with the idea of making spell casters actually memorize their spells as quotes and have to recite them from memory to cast. Short famous quotes for low level simple spells (easy), more difficult and longer as the spell level increased. Misquote and the spell would be unpredictable or fizzle. Forget the quote you lost the spell. I'm not sure that would have gone over well but in the right group it might be fun. Especially with appropriately themed quotations. I think I was in a phase of wanting to learn some quotations and figured combining it with the game would help

Not sure how the above would be applied to Traveller though, and role-playing in RPGs seems to be dead anyway so even suggesting it now would probably just earn that "oddball" look.

 

[Kilgs]

I just have this image of the "thief" trying to do the puzzle to pick the lock and the "fighter" (played by a better puzzle solver) standing over his shoulder at the table saying "this piece goes there... "

Which is probably what "real" fighters do when they're sitting around waiting for the Thief to "do his thing."

 

[fiat_knox]

I don't like puzzles, as much as I like giving them problems to solve. An example, based on Star Trek:-

Two Ensigns and a Lieutenant are on an Away Team mission to some Iconian ruins, when the Lt stumbles into a previously undetected active subspace energy field in the centre of the Iconian ruin. To the Ensigns, the Lt vanishes from sight. The subspace field looks as if it's about to destabilise. When it goes, the Lt goes with it, possibly forever.

The Ensigns have their tricorders and communicators, enabling them to communicate with one another, the Lt and the ship, but they have a number of problems.

One, they are standing three hundred metres apart, in line of sight.

Two, while their tricorders can detect the bearing to the Lt's comm badge (they can hear him calling for help over it) they cannot pinpoint his actual range, due to subspace interference.

Three, they only have a moment to work out where the Lt is so that they can give coordinates to the ship's transporter room. The ship can beam out the Lt, but only if the Lt is standing within two hundred metres of one of the Ensigns.

Ensign A's tricorder reads that the Ensign is standing at bearing 308 mark 0, relative to A. Ensign B's tricorder reads bearing 038 mark 0, relative to B.

Which Ensign should make the call? What is the Lt's range from that Ensign? Remember, you can only make one call. Get it wrong, and the ship will fail to beam out the Lt, the subspace field will vanish, taking the Lt out with it, and that's their Starfleet careers well and truly over.

It's not a trick question. There's mathematics involved, but it's not impossible. And if your players hate maths, they will just love you.

 

[aramis]

Fiat_Knox:
Many of my player base are so math-phobic that counting change is problematic (despite the fact that half of them do so as part of their jobs). They'd simply ask for a skill roll or even an edu roll to solve it, and accept the success or failure.

When I give puzzles, they must needs be either visual or deductive logic.

Hell, last time I ran a math problem: Which one does not fit: 1,3,5,7,9,11
Presented as "When the odd ball is pressed, open doors will give access." on a post-it above a row of buttons, with a post-it under pointing and numbered: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11

It took an hour of arguing for them to solve it. Worse still, they had played White Plume Mountain

 

[fiat_knox]

Hell, last time I ran a math problem: Which one does not fit: 1,3,5,7,9,11

My first instinct's to say 9, since all the rest are primes. But then I realised that 1 is not considered a prime number, either: nowadays, the first recognised prime is also the only even prime - 2.

And the answer to my puzzle is Ensign A, with tricorder bearing 308 relative, standing at a 185 metre range from the Lt. More or less.

 

[Icosahedron]

I would have gone for 9 as non-prime, too, but I couldn't solve the ensign problem - did you post all the info?

I tend not to use puzzles for 3 reasons:
1) Many players don't like them cos they might look stupid.
2) As locks they are unrealistic in that they neither guarantee access to the right people nor deny it to the wrong people, so realistically who would puzzle-lock something?
3) They can easily backfire if the GM states it wrong, or someone has 'heard it before' or solves it too quickly/slowly or can't solve it at all, etc.

Mysteries are a little better, at least you can keep feeding them clues until they get it.

 

[fiat_knox]

From A's vantage point, the Lt is (360 - 308) 52 degrees to the left of B. From B's vantage point, the Lt is at 38 degrees to the right of A.

That puts the Lt at the third point of a triangle; since the sum of all internal angles of a triangle on a plane is 180 degrees, the angle between A and B, from the viewpoint of the Lt, is (180 - 52 - 38) 90 degrees.

That's a right angled triangle; so, knowing that the hypotenuse is 300 metres (the distance between A and B) you can work out what the distance between A and the Lt is by multiplying the cosine of 52 degrees by 300:

cosine (x) = adjacent side / hypotenuse;

therefore, cosine (x) * hypotenuse = adjacent side.

It comes to about 184.70 metres.

You could multiply the cosine of 38 by 300, and it comes out to about 236.4 metres. The transporter would not have been able to beam out the Lt from B's coordinates.

So, not puzzles; problems. Something that requires an understanding of real world maths, physics or chemistry. Like using trigonometry to work out an accurate range based on line of sight and angular measurements, and so on. Surveyors and astronomers used to have to do this all the time, virtually in their heads.

If the characters (and the players) can use their heads to solve problems through reason and knowledge, it could enhance the sense of verisimilitude - of actually immersively playing in the TU - to no end.

And if a character saves a patient's life by realising that he needs the left-hand chiral molecule of the drug, rather than the right-hand molecule, that's a piece of esoteric reasoning which might even prompt the player to do a little research into the topic his character just won the game by, and thereby learn something cool for himself.

 

[leo knight]

For myself, I prefer that puzzles echo the flavor of the campaign. The best one I was ever on the recieving end of was in a long running D&D campaign. We found a round table, with a milky, translucent top, and edged with gems. A ring, too big to wear, lay in the center. Fortunately, one of the players had seen the 1960 version of "The Time Machine", and knew to spin the ring on the table. It gave us a riddle:

"The beginning of eternity,
the end of space and time,
the beginning of every ending,
the end of every rhyme.
What am I?"

We tried many solutions, all way too literal. Each failure trapped the answerer in a gem on the table's edge. That was over 25 years ago, and I still get goosebumps.

I only used two in Traveller. The first was an astronomical "treasure map". An infamous pirate had hidden his loot in a derelict ship orbiting a system far out in the Oort cloud. He had left cryptic clues (all of which I've forgotten- some space pirate I am!) that would lead to his hoard. I did allow good Navigation skill rolls to help stuck players, though, so I cheated a bit.

The second, a player was interested in finding the Psioncs Institute. I placed a series of "shrines", similar to the Octagon Society shelters from "Twilight's Peak", on various worlds. Inside were symbols from the Rhine ESP experiments. Periodically, as the PC did favors for or helped certain people in trouble, they would leave him "calling cards" with those symbols. When he had all five ("Collect 'em! Trade 'em!), if he placed them on the symbols at the "shrine", they would send a signal to the Psionics Institute that he was ready for contact. Convoluted? Yes. Fun? Absolutely.