New to traveller

[Orwellian]

This was all a bit confusing at first (and kinda still is)

I decided I wanted to run a space game with my players. Was looking for a cross between firefly and some David Weber (and others) space trade books I've read, and figured out Traveller fit the bill perfectly.

Lots of different editions, decided to go with the new mongoose stuff. Seems a bit high priced for the production quality, and information contained, but i guess they arent a huge publisher?

Anyways, i've been a bit obsessed over the last few weeks building my campaign. I tried to make a spreadsheet to translate UWPs and figured out it was over my head. A gentleman from the Google docs forum went WAAAAAY above and beyond in helping me. He's made a fully fleshed out and quite pretty spreadsheet with a separate input form. It will be final very soon, and I was wondering if I should post it here. I could be blind but I didn't see any easy to get to or easy to use translators. Is that something that should go here?

 

[Orwellian]

Also, what pitfalls should I avoid (traveller specific) as a new GM in this system

 

[whartung]

As you can imagine, this is a bit of an open ended question.

Where are you having problems? What parts are confusing you? What kind of adventures were you thinking of running?

For example, you could spend the entire time in the underbelly of bustling starport, and never get off the ground. Or you can be attached to a special forces squad being sent on missions galavanting from planet to planet all across an entire sector, never sleeping on the same planet twice. Or you can be on a tramp freighter, with a run that consists of a simple loop among 3 systems.

As you can imagine, each of these have a different amount of different kind of development that's necessary on your end as a GM.

The biggest problem you will come up against as a GM is simply that the technology available to players is potentially a) very lethal, or b) very empowering. When you give players a ship that can "go anywhere", don't be surprised when the players DO go "anywhere", including places that you haven't even imagined yet to do things you aren't prepared to handle. Simply turning the ship coreward instead of spinward, and you find the players are all of a sudden in "unexplored" territory.

So, it can be a bit of effort to keep a rogue party "locked" down, especially without making them FEEL like they're locked down. But otherwise, they can very quickly "run off the reservation" so to speak.

It obviously depends on the group play style and their goals, but it's something to think about. There's a lot of technology just floating about handy and within reach of player parties, much of it "multi-use".

So, let us know more about what issues you're having, and I'm sure we can come up with some pointers along the way.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Welcome aboard!

GM/player aids are always useful, but sadly Mongoose forbid the publishing of software based on their edition. Their dos and don'ts are here:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/travdevpack.zip

If you ask in the Mongoose Traveller section or on their forum you might get permission.

 

[Orwellian]

haven't started the game yet, i was looking for advice on common ways players screw the GM in Traveller.

I'm shooting for a classic trade/smuggle occasional exploration game. They will have their own ship (mortgaged). I did char creation for some of them the other day. one managed to die (yes, in mongoose) rerolled and finished at 6 terms, one did a normal 4 term creation, another is like 102 and on anagathics. We have 3 more to go.

I'm thinking more in terms of episodic gameplay with a loose overplot, similar to TV episodes. This is a bit unusual for me since my style is usually sandbox large world important plots where civilization is doomed unless the players do something. This campaign will be much more mundane. I've been reading quite a bit, but still don't have that intuitive feel for the game you get when you are experienced.

It looks like its pretty easy to die from a common gunfight, correct?

Ship combat can be disastrous even if you win due to expensive damage?

Generally, are most ship encounters (pirates, derelicts, interesting asteroids, etc) located within a charted system? Such as the in system drive time between jump limit and planet. Thats what I inferred, but my book wasn't super clear on that. I'm guessing the only "safe" area in space is in a heavy traffic system right in orbit?

 

[jappel]

First of all, welcome to Traveller! Now on to some of your questions.

It looks like its pretty easy to die from a common gunfight, correct?

Absolutely. I strongly recommend running a sort of "alternate universe, this never really happened" one-off combat scene to get a handle on how things work and just how lethal combat truly is.

Ship combat can be disastrous even if you win due to expensive damage?

Also very much correct. Pyrrhic victories are very easy to come by. That said, some days "We're alive and they're not" is good enough!

But a damaged ship is a plot hook all it's own, right?

Generally, are most ship encounters (pirates, derelicts, interesting asteroids, etc) located within a charted system?

This and the follow-up questions get into the Big Grey Undefined aspect of Traveller. There are proponents of widespread naval patrols covering every backwater system & fueling point, and those that allow pirates to operate (if in hit & run fashion) in all but the most densely populated high-tech systems. There is no "official" answer, and adherents of both camps can (and will) cite evidence from the breadth of Traveller's canon to support their arguments.

In short - it really depends on what kind of game world you and your players want. Even within the OTU (Official Traveller Universe) there's plenty of room to define things to taste. (I'm also of the camp that says mechanics should be more-or-less fixed, but the setting is mine to define as GM.)

As far as common pitfalls, whartung nailed some of the biggest ones up-thread. It's not hard at all for a group with a ship and few or no restrictions (subsidized mail or trade routes, for example) to go zipping off in directions for which you're totally unprepared. Contracts, both legitimate and clandestine, can help keep that under control.

People also forget that planets are BIG places and a single world can hold tons of adventure potential. So, find ways to get them rumbling about on the surface. Say they need to make a delivery to someplace where landing the ship is impractical or forbidden, and ground transportation is spotty at best. (Balkanized worlds are great for this, for example.) So now they have to get the cargo of highly breakable / perishable whatsits to a point 600 km from the starport, across a river and through bandit-covered hills, with only an open-topped air-raft and a broken-down biodiesel lorry...

You can also create plenty of conflict that isn't of "The fate of the universe is on the line" - the fate of a small number of people can be just as dramatic, and failure has the same result for the victims, no matter how large or small the stakes for the universe at large.

(I'm not against Big Plots, btw. I've just become drawn to more intimately-scaled stories as I've grown older.)

In any case, have fun!

 

[Whipsnade]

Orwellian,

Welcome to Traveller!

Whartung, Andrew, and John have answered many of your questions, but I'd like to emphasize a few points they made.


Personal Combat - This is not D&D. I don't know what RPG experience you and your players may have but Traveller combat is fairly unique in it's lethality. There are no levels and player-characters do not automatically receive bonuses that allow them to routinely stomp non-player-characters with impunity. The idea that a 20 year marine veteran can be easily killed by anyone holding a pistol is something that players and referees coming from other systems have trouble grasping.

John's suggestion of running a few pre-session firefights to get the players used to both the combat system and it's lethal nature is a very good one.


Controlling the Players - Unlike D&D derived RPGs, Traveller has no reward system and no levels to advance along(1). Players are rewarded with in-game knowledge, possessions, and money. Thus one of the easiest ways to control the players is by controlling the amount of money they have on hand and a good way to do that is by forcing them to spend the money they earn. Keeping your players relatively cash poor limits the options they can take and provides you with a ready made "hook" with which you can "steer" their decisions.

A ships, it's operating costs, it's maintenance costs, and it's mortgage make for an excellent money sponge. The real world owners of sailboats and cabin cruisers call boats a "hole in the water into which you pour money", your players' starship should become a "hole in space into which they pour money".


Versions of the Game - Mongoose Traveller, or MgT, is just the latest rules version of a game that dates back to 1977. MgT isn't the only rules version for sale either, it just happens to be the one of which more is currently being published.

SJGames has a GURPS version, GT for sale in either book or .pdf format. Nearly of the GT books use the third edition of GURPS and not the current fourth. Many of the GT supplements however are considered among the best published for the game and are used by folks running other rules versions.

Far Furture Enterprises, owned by Mr. Miller who created of the game, sells CD-ROMs which contain the entirety of three different rule sets; the original rules now known as Classic Traveller or CT, the mid-1980s update MegaTraveller or MT, and a very differently styled version from the 1990s called Traveller:The New Era or TNE. For little more than the price of a single MgT book, you can own all of one of those versions, all the rules and all the supplements, all the adventures.


On a final note, Traveller began over thirty years ago as a rule set that could be used to create settings. While not as universal as the GURPS rules and not as universal as Mongoose likes to claim, primarily due to the technologies presented and the assumptions flowing from those choices, Traveller can be used to fashion almost whatever settings the GM may have in mind.

That being said, the further your setting departs from the Official Traveller Universe, or OTU, the more work you've created for yourself as the GM. Case in point is Weber's increasingly silly Honorverse, it's eponymous Mary Sue, and the gravitic technologies used there. The Honorverse has gravitic technologies far beyond those written in any of Traveller's versions. Where ships in Traveller are limited to 6 gees of thrust, ships in the Honorverse can thrust at tens of thousands of gees. Ship, vehicle, and personal weapons in the Honorverse use gravitic technology too and they all effect how combat is conducted.

So, if you wish to set your Traveller campaign in the Honorverse you'll be looking at rewriting the ship construction, ship combat, ship weapons, vehicle construction, vehicle weapons, vehicle combat, personal weapons, and personal combat rules at the very least.

Well, enough bloviating from me. Enjoy the forums and be sure to check out the File Library.


Regards,
Bill

1 - Unless you're playing T20, the d20 version of Traveller.

 

[Orwellian]

no i wouldnt dream of using honorverse (even though I enjoyed the first few books of it) as a setting, I mostly meant elizabeth moon's sci fi trading series. I get my space operas mixed up on occasion, I thought it was weber untill you brought up honorverse.

anyways, we play several types of games, some of which are quite lethal to players. I don't mind player death on occasion (of course they might), and traveller seems a bit easier to bring in a re-rolled character since there are no levels.

I grabbed the gurps spinward marches book to flesh out that area on the cheap. I bought mongoose's spinward marches map... no comment. If I want to steal source material from other editions, which are closest economy wise to mongoose? I don't care much about the mechanics in splat books if I dont have to adjust prices and such. Generally I think i'll stick to mostly canon fluff since thats alot easier and I dont have any issues with it. Even if the aliens make my cheese meter perk a little.

 

[Whipsnade]

no i wouldnt dream of using honorverse (even though I enjoyed the first few books of it) as a setting...

Orwellian,

I'm not "dissing" the Honorverse as I too enjoyed the first few books.

I was using it as an example of how much work can occur when a GM wants to use a somewhat unsuitable setting for Traveller. Traveller makes certain fundamental technological assumptions which in turn create certain setting features. Among other things, this means that Mongoose's claims regarding Traveller being a basic sci-fi rules set are rather overblown.

I grabbed the gurps spinward marches book to flesh out that area on the cheap.

Oh boy...

Remember how I wrote about "many" GT supplements being considered among the best published for Traveller? Well, "Behind the Claw", or BtC, is most definitely not among that "many". BtC, Star Mercs, and Bounty Hunter are thought to be the worst GT supplements.

BtC especially bad because the Spinward Marches are the oldest, and thus most detailed, area described for Traveller and BtC ignored great amounts of that previous material.

If I want to steal source material from other editions, which are closest economy wise to mongoose?

That's a tough one, but off the top of my pointy head the older GDW versions, CT and MT, might be the best fit. GT's economic rules flow from a very different, and somewhere more realistic, model, TNE is post-apocalyptic so the economics are very different, T4 is so badly broken it is the weakest version of all, and I'm not familiar with T20 enough to make any judgment.

Generally I think i'll stick to mostly canon fluff since thats alot easier and I dont have any issues with it. Even if the aliens make my cheese meter perk a little.

Some of the canon races, the Aslan and Vargr especially, do come off as cheesy at first. However, that has more to do with faulty perceptions of them and the depictions that flow from those perceptions than anything else. You'll find any number of threads here discussing the various races and the many uses they can be put to. A race your players think is cheesy is a nice opportunity for any referee because your can play with their expectations to great effect. It's the "Honorable Orc" or "Laughing Vulcan" effect.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Orwellian]

lol, I just can't win Oh well, is the MGT spinward any good? I'm trying to pick an area with the most written about it so I have to do less.

 

[Vargr]

Welcome Orwellian. I am a sort of a Traveller newbie myself (I'll be running my very first game on Google Wave next Saturday) so take my advice for what it is worth and with a grain of salt at hand.

haven't started the game yet, i was looking for advice on common ways players screw the GM in Traveller.

Well, if your players are out to screw you (the GM) I would say there's no advice I could provide that is specific to Traveller, or any other game by that matter. I can however provide some advice of a more general nature:

Stop playing with those people and find some players that would rather cooperate with the GM rather than trying to screw him.

It looks like its pretty easy to die from a common gunfight, correct?

Not really. From what I am able to determine, gunfights in Traveller only kill people about as often as they do in real life. The problem is that most folks are used to games where it's damn near impossible to die in a gunfight, and that tends to skew their perceptions of what combat and violence really entails.

another is like 102 and on anagathics. We have 3 more to go.

My munchkin radar is blipling about this player. There is good reason the rulebooks limit/counsel that a PC should have no more than 6 or 7 Terms behind him.

I don't mind player death on occasion (of course they might)

I just played one Traveller adventure where I lost two characters in two weeks. I found these quite entertaining but some people are lacking the maturity necessary to deal with character death; or even failure.
Again, I can only counsel being selective on whom you invite to join around your gaming table.

the aliens make my cheese meter perk a little.

The solution is simple: don't use them. Or better yet, create your own milk-derivate-free alien races. It's quite easy to do it in Traveller.

lol, I just can't win Oh well, is the MGT spinward any good? I'm trying to pick an area with the most written about it so I have to do less.

Well, that depends on what you define as "good" and what type of information you are seeking. The book contains the history of the Third Imperium setting written in a way I found both entertaining and useful; avoiding the pitfall of dropping long, dry chronologies of the reader.

As for the info about the Sector itself, I found it lacking. The Spinward marches have over 100 systems and only 2-3 per sub sector are detailed. Most of the Red-zoned systems are given no explanation whatsoever, and when they are it is usually in the form of weak, unconfirmed rumors that the GM must fully develop. But my major gripe about it is that the UWPs for each sub sector are not listed in alphabetical order. That, and the fact they got the number of Aslan fingers wrong on the cover art...again.

 

[jappel]

I can't comment on the MgT (Mongoose Traveller) Spinward Marches book - haven't picked that one up. I'll second Bill's suggestion of purchasing one of the CD compilations from Far Future, probably the Classic Traveller one. You can also buy reprints of the original CT books collected into various volumes - for example, CT books 0-8 in one volume is for sale at Noble Knight for $24.95. In your case I'd suggest the Supplements reprint which they have for $29.95 - it contains the original Spinward Marches supplement as well as both Library Data volumes, among other things. (The CT CD has both of these and much more besides.)

You should also give a visit to a couple of fan websites. Traveller Downport (www.downport.com) is essentially a portal for many smaller sites and contains all sorts of nuggets. Freelance Traveller (www.freelancetraveller.com) is an excellent fan site with adventures, links to other resources, and a few entertaining stories about early campaigns back in the days before the Third Imperium setting was developed. Lastly, there's a couple of excellent interactive maps of the Imperium (if you're using that setting, which it sounds like you are) - the links are eluding me at the moment but I'm sure someone here will point them out.

Another very good setting book (easily available in PDF from RPGNow/DriveThru, print copies in the used market only) is Gateway to Destiny. Set during the Solomani Rim War it was originally written for T20 but the world stats are largely system-portable (off the top of my head I think they'd translate seamlessly).

Lastly, I'll beg to differ with Vargr about the lethality of Traveller combat, although I've not yet run a fight under Mongoose rules. His point about it being relative is certainly valid, but once any kind of long arm or significant auto-fire weapon comes out, bodies start hitting the floor. This is a big shock to players not used to lethal systems, though perhaps not so much for yours.

 

[Orwellian]

the "screwing the GM" comment was more about what my players are going to do that i'm not prepared for, and less about them trying to "win" the game.

I might pick up the cd's. I prefer print, and instant gratification, thats why i went with mongoose. That said, i'm interested enough in this setting to possibly make it my next long haul campaign... so more info = happy players.

All good advice, appreciate the help. I asked @ mongoose if I can release the spreadsheet, it would be a real shame to be the only one using it since he put so many hours into it.

 

[Whipsnade]

... another is like 102 and on anagathics.

Orwellian,

I originally missed the quoted snip above, only seeing it when Vargr mentioned it.

That character is trouble waiting to happen. I would have never allowed such a player-character as a GM. That 102-year-old would make for an interesting NPC, especially given the anagathics angle.

I don't know how MgT handles anagathics but in CT they're incredibly expensive, incredibly rare, and must be taken rather often. How expensive, how rare, and how often? Well, how does 200,000 credits per dose per month when they're available strike you?

Finding anagathics are more often the subject of an adventure than anything else. They definitely not something you find on drug store shelves no matter how high-tech the world.

I prefer print, and instant gratification, thats why i went with mongoose.

Which is why I screwed up when I failed to mention the Reprints, or Big Floppy Books (BFB), John wrote about. For about the price of a Mongoose splatbook, you can purchase a BFB which contains all eight CT rule books. Other BFBs contain all the Classic Adventures, the Double Adventures, all the Supplements, and so forth. They're well worth looking at.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Vargr]

Lastly, I'll beg to differ with Vargr about the lethality of Traveller combat, although I've not yet run a fight under Mongoose rules.
His point about it being relative is certainly valid, but once any kind of long arm or significant auto-fire weapon comes out, bodies start hitting the floor.
And this is different from real-life in what manner? This is a big shock to players not used to lethal systems, though perhaps not so much for yours.

Jappel, you get no cookie for failing to get sarcasm and/or irony.

Orwellian,

I originally missed the quoted snip above, only seeing it when Vargr mentioned it.

That character is trouble waiting to happen. I would have never allowed such a player-character as a GM. That 102-year-old would make for an interesting NPC, especially given the anagathics angle.

I don't know how MgT handles anagathics but in CT they're incredibly expensive, incredibly rare, and must be taken rather often. How expensive, how rare, and how often? Well, how does 200,000 credits per dose per month when they're available strike you?

Oh boy...

Whipsnade, I hope this doesn't bring another edition flamewar upon our heads. The MGT Anagathic rules are rather, shall we say...different?

Anagathics cost 2d6 x 2,500 per Term during chargen. A dose in-game is a mere 2,000 Cr.

Finding anagathics are more often the subject of an adventure than anything else. They definitely not something you find on drug store shelves no matter how high-tech the world.

Not really anymore; the drugs are listed in the rulebook. Unlike CT there's no special "system" to determine their availability. I guess the only real hindrance is that they are TL15 equipment.

 

[Orwellian]

I thought about it a bit when I read the optional rule about max of 6 terms. The anagathics route will probably be interesting since they are gonna be in spinward marches. Doesn't seem like the area is filled with friendly high TL worlds. I will probably allow a shelf life of 30-60 days (dep. on qual and price) and figure he is gonna be making that aging roll sometime in the campaign. It will also make for some good times when the rest of the crew wants to make a nice buck selling a cargo and he is trying to go in the opposite direction to a high TL world. My mad cackles while describing anagathics to the players dissuaded any of the others from going that long in creation. I'm not worried about him, he is the least powergamey out of the bunch, and his skills are more varied than concentrated into superpowers. The real rule cruncher in our group went around 6 terms, and took a mean injury hit.

 

[Whipsnade]

I hope this doesn't bring another edition flamewar upon our heads.

Vargr,

No worries on that front.

It's why I stated I didn't know how MgT handled anagathics and then repeated the CT rules only. As you point out, MT's version is rather different.

Unlike CT there's no special "system" to determine their availability. I guess the only real hindrance is that they are TL15 equipment.

There's no "system" in CT either because CT is rather minimalist. Where in some rule sets you'll get a chart, table, formula, and so forth, in CT you get a sentence or two making a "suggestion" to the GM.

CT does put anagathics TL of manufacture at 15 and does state their available on a 2D6 of 10+, but the real rule regarding anagathics' availability is in the text: Because of the rarity and demand for anagathics, they are quite expensive, and often unavailable at any price."

All of this aside, Orwellian's 102-year-old PC is going to be lots of trouble if he's not handled very gingerly.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

I will probably allow a shelf life of 30-60 days (dep. on qual and price) and figure he is gonna be making that aging roll sometime in the campaign. It will also make for some good times when the rest of the crew wants to make a nice buck selling a cargo and he is trying to go in the opposite direction to a high TL world.

Orwellian,

Yes, this particular PC's "addiction" will give you a good handle on him. There will be places he absolutely must go and times he absolutely must be there. Depending on the price of the drugs in MgT, he's also going to be a little more money hungry than the others.

I'm not worried about him, he is the least powergamey out of the bunch, and his skills are more varied than concentrated into superpowers.

Skills and skill levels are the real problem with anagathic-doped PCs. Traveller originally had no skill/skill level caps as it was 1977 and munchkins were unheard of. The development of advanced chargen for a number of careers added to the number of skills even normal PCs could earn. Traveller then implemented a skill cap where the total of all a PC's skill levels could not exceed total of INT+EDU. In that manner 102-year-old PCs with 21 terms under their belt won't have obscene and/or "superpower" skill levels.

I haven't looked at MgT chargen in some time, but there should be some sort of skill cap in place there too.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Vargr]

Orwellian,

Yes, this particular PC's "addiction" will give you a good handle on him. There will be places he absolutely must go and times he absolutely must be there. Depending on the price of the drugs in MgT, he's also going to be a little more money hungry than the others.

Of course, If I was a min/maxing player with a 102 year old anagathic-pumped PC I would probably forfeit the drugs as soon as the game began, thus preventing this GM "handling". The only drawback would be a single immediate ageing roll at the biological (i.e. non-cronological) age of the character. The next roll wouldn't come until 4 years had passed; assuming the campaign lasted that long.

I haven't looked at MgT chargen in some time, but there should be some sort of skill cap in place there too.

Nope, there either aren't any skill caps or maxim number of skills known in MGT.

You know, when I heard of this centenary PC I initially assumed Orwellian's group had made a mistake during character generation. But now I realise the character is by-the-book legit.

I'm still impressed though...that player must have managed to pass something like 30-40 Survival rolls during his PC's career!

 

[MarianLH]

Welcome from another newbie! I second the suggestion of running a few "example" combats before starting the campaign. I did that for a GURPS game with players who had never experienced anything but Palladium, and it was a huge help.

I mostly meant elizabeth moon's sci fi trading series.

That sounds like something I want to check out.


Marian