1000D M-Drive Limit

[BackworldTraveller]

How does the 1000D M-Drive limit work?

Within that limit, Full-Power; Outside that, Nil-Acceleration?

I ask because I have a group that need to move between stars 27AU apart...well outside 1000D of both.

Lots of acceleration to 1000D (ensuring there is space to slow down inside the 1000D limit at the other end), Coast, Brake like mad.

While mathematically simple, that limit seems somewhat arbitrary and silly if taken literally.

So - Any suggestions on how to make it "Realistic"?

(It has been postulated that thruster plates are pushing off J-Space and that is why you get magic acceleration - and that might have a plausible 1000D hard limit given how they work for Jump-Drives)

 

[mike wightman]

There is no 1000D limit in most editions of Traveller, I would just ignore it since it contradicts the OTU canonical The Traveller Adventure.

 

[whulorigan]

How does the 1000D M-Drive limit work?

Within that limit, Full-Power; Outside that, Nil-Acceleration?

Per T5, within the limit, full-power, outside the limit, 1% power.

I ask because I have a group that need to move between stars 27AU apart...well outside 1000D of both.

Lots of acceleration to 1000D (ensuring there is space to slow down inside the 1000D limit at the other end), Coast, Brake like mad.

Or use the Jump Drive, or use a ship with a secondary thrust agency, like a HEPlaR Rocket outside the 1000D threshold.

While mathematically simple, that limit seems somewhat arbitrary and silly if taken literally.

It is probably there to remove the unintended game-consequence of potentially putting the equivalent of a multi-gigaton planetary crust-cracker into the hands of every merchant captain (or terrorist) because of effective unlimited acceleration potential.

So - Any suggestions on how to make it "Realistic"?

(It has been postulated that thruster plates are pushing off J-Space and that is why you get magic acceleration - and that might have a plausible 1000D hard limit given how they work for Jump-Drives)

Per T4 and T5 you are reacting against spacetime curvature; so you are essentially interacting with the local gravitational gradient, and picking up energy by removing it from the other gravitating bodies in the system.

The Jumpspace angle is interesting, however.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

Given the the optical surface of a star can move by a considerable number of km, that 1000D limit will move too...I'd hate to be one of the poor captains as they fight near that border...Accelerating away at 3G...no .03G...eeek!

 

[Werner]

Given the the optical surface of a star can move by a considerable number of km, that 1000D limit will move too...I'd hate to be one of the poor captains as they fight near that border...Accelerating away at 3G...no .03G...eeek!

What is the difference between a 20 solar mass black hole and Betelgeuse? Both are 20 solar masses so the jump limits from both ought to be the same, also what is defined as the diameter is rather arbitrary. The 20 diameter limit from a black hole is rather close while the 20 diameter limit from Betelgeuse is rather distant if we take the surface of the star to be one diameter and the event horizon of the black hole to be the other.

 

[GypsyComet]

Given the the optical surface of a star can move by a considerable number of km, that 1000D limit will move too...

A white knuckle way to detect a star that just went critical, too. Hope you already have jump fuel...

 

[Condottiere]

The problem would be more that the brakes just blew out.

 

[GypsyComet]

I'm thinking the very brief shell collapse, taking a ship out at, say, D800 from M-Drive 1 to 0.01 instantly. If you knew the star was about to go, that's your sign to get out of Dodge.

"Helm, we need a Jump Solution in five minutes or we're all dead."
"Captain, we're comfortably beyond 100D and can jump any time."
"Lt, the 100D line is coming to meet us, and I don't want to be here when it arrives."

 

[BackworldTraveller]

OK - So here's a question for those with Science (Physics) 4+

When the core collapses and the shell expands at some significant proportion of c - how fast does the 100D limit move? or the 1000D limit?

I can see the 100D limit being happily moved at 10c or above as it is a jump-space phenomena. So the first you know of being in trouble is being in trouble - however briefly.

 

[mike wightman]

It has been shown that gravity waves travel at c - so any effect changing the gravitational parameters of the star will propagate at the fraction of c the expanding star 'envelope' has.

There is no reason to think that there would be an FTL jump dimension component, although that may be how you retcon it.

Trouble is with this sort of paradigm then one of the holy commandments 'thou shalt not have FTL communication' can be broken, all you need to do is manufacture stars then blow them up in order to send out FTL signals...

 

[Condottiere]

Drastic.

It's possible there's some form of unified gravitational effect that binds the hyperspace dimension to Einsteinian, and cross pollinates.

 

[GypsyComet]

Depending on the star the gravity indicator might precede the light show by a few minutes just due to how much work photons have to do to get out of stars in the first place.

Garden variety binary siphon novas are another matter entirely. The flare and ejecta are not preceded by shell collapse. Systems close to that condition should not be entered except in specialized ships manned by actual mad scientists with paid up life insurance policies.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

Given the number of close companion white dwarf stars that can be found in the traveller map, these are fairly common!

Which provokes a secondary question...If there are so many white dwarfs about, how come those systems have any life left on their (now) hab-zone planets? The giant stage of the WDs will have been a bit disastrous on those.

 

[GypsyComet]

Do we know they are all Close binaries?

 

[BackworldTraveller]

Even a Far Binary (in Traveller terms) that goes to Class III will potentially muck up the hab zones of its neighbours. But yes - some are explicitly close binaries.

e.g.
Formation (world)
Mira (star)

or further apart but significantly close - though the Ancients seem not to have minded
Tarnis (star) {Darrien System}

 

[Timerover51]

From T5.10, Book 2: Starships, page 101.

Non-Gravity-Based Drives. In addition, several non-gravity based In-System drives are available (although not described here) and include: Rocket, HEPlaR, Orion, and Dean.

Marc has added the DEAN Drive to the mix. Wonderful, as that is how I assume the Maneuver Drive worked.

Bless you, Marc, and many, many thanks.

 

[whartung]

From T5.10, Book 2: Starships, page 101.



Marc has added the DEAN Drive to the mix. Wonderful, as that is how I assume the Maneuver Drive worked.

Bless you, Marc, and many, many thanks.

FF&S v1 had the Dean drive as well.

 

[Timerover51]

FF&S v1 had the Dean drive as well.

I never had that one. Is it more detailed, or just mentioned?

 

[whulorigan]

I never had that one. Is it more detailed, or just mentioned?

Fire Fusion and Steel for TNE was the equipment design/builder system for TNE. It had all of the tech for the standard TNE setting, but also had "alternate technologies" not part of the OTU (under TNE assumptions), of which the Dean Drive was one. It had the Dean Drive performance tables (per TL), as well as performance tables for a number of other non-standard technologies.

 

[Timerover51]

Fire Fusion and Steel for TNE was the equipment design/builder system for TNE. It had all of the tech for the standard TNE setting, but also had "alternate technologies" not part of the OTU (under TNE assumptions), of which the Dean Drive was one. It had the Dean Drive performance tables (per TL), as well as performance tables for a number of other non-standard technologies.

Thank you. As I am not a fan of Traveller: The New Era, I will not be likely to purchase it. I will simply work it up on my own.