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2nd Imperium (help wanted)

A

Aquinas

SOC-12
Can anyone help me with any "official" sources for Emperors of the Rule of Man.

So far I've got the following information:

Emperors of the 2nd Imperium


-2204 to -2182: Hiroshi (I) Estigarriba: Admiral and CinC of Terran Fleet. Regent and Protector.
-2182 to -2180: Yev Gennaz: Admiral. Regent and Protector.
-2180 to -2162: Hiroshi II (Yev Gennaz).
-2163 to -2162: Teresa d’Entrecastaux: Admiral, Chief of the General Staff of the Rule of Man. Empress in Waiting.
-2162 to -2144: Teresa. (MIA)
-2150 to -2144: Yakov Petrovic: Admiral, Imperial Chief of Staff. Regent and Protector.
-2144 to -2139: Yakov.
-2139 to -2137: Zhiang (Zhou-Lei): Grand Admiral.
-2137 to -2108: Michael (O’Connor): Admiral, Imperial Chancellor.
-2108 to -2171: Hiroshi III (Severin Estigarriba): Admiral.
-2171 to -2058: Majid (Ali Khan): General.
-2058 to -2046: Madeline (Trent): Admiral. (Ass).
-???? to -2046: Kostas Sanjelic: Admiral, Chief of Directorate of State Security. Emperor in Waiting (Ass).
-2046 to -2029: Chandra (Chandrasekhar Azaruddin): Viceroy-Admiral. (ass).
-2028 to -1973: Vidmar (Kulkinski): Vice-Admiral. Anti-Emperor.
-2029 to -2018: Hideki (Morimoto): Admiral.
-2018 to ????: Elize (Papete): Admiral, Governor of Trans-Zarushagar and Viceroy of the Verge.
-2018 to ???? H’sui Shen Liang: Admiral, Vice-Governor of Hub/Ershur.

???? to -1971: Ladislau.
-1971 to ????: Irene I (Serovici): Field Marshal.

???? to -1929: Juliana.
-1928 to ???? Hiroshi IV

???? to -1820: Catherine
-1819 to -1816: War of Succession
???? to -1816: Irina Yakovlev: Admiral. Claimant to Imperial Throne.
-1816 to -1789: Hiroshi V (Aideed Paskevi): Admiral.

???? to -1747: Manuel III
 
I don't think most of what you have there is actually official. On the other hand, it is pretty close to the only version that anyone has made available to the public, so a fair few people accept it, to the extent that they care about it.

The proper answer to your request is: there isn't anything much that is official out there. All you really have are the names of Hiroshi Estigarribia and Hiroshi II. There isn't even an official "real" name for Hiroshi II. There might be another name or two floating about in obscure places...

As such, you should feel free to develop it as you see fit. Use the material available to you if it suits you, change it if it doesn't. If you really want another source, just grab bits of the history of some historical dynasties, and bolt the major events (wars, coups and so on) from their reigns onto the Ramshackle Empire.

Incidentally, you would be perfectly justified to suggest that the Rule of Man eventually splinters into a bunch of successor states. That way you could have the collection of rival Imperia that the Rebellion was supposed to deliver, but never really did. This could be an easy alternate setting to set up, since its components could mainly be "borrowed", and all that would be really necessary would be to tone down the TLs a couple of notches.

(Warning! The TL of the Rule of Man was the cause of one of the Traveller Mailing List's most legendary flamewars, many years ago. That's not a real problem, though, since most of the drama was apparently caused by a single rather over-inflated ego. Most people would accept "a couple of TLs below the 3I" as reasonable for the RoM.)

The great benefit of having splinters around is, of course, that their rivalries are useful sources of plot ideas. The other one, of course, is that if each of them considers themselves to be the legitimate Rule of Man, the "history" of the Rule of Man becomes debateable enough that nobody can disprove your version of it.


While I have just got myself interested in the setting, it's probably just a passing mood. I would be probably more inclined to run a very early game myself, possibly in the final years of the Interstellar Wars, the period of the Estigarribia dictatorship, and the years in between. But that's just because I have thought about setting a game in there before.

The real benefit of a Second Imperium campaign is that it is a green field period. Nobody has really gone there before. To a very large extent, the future is unknown. Oh, sure, eventually the empire will fall, but all empires fall eventually. None of that has anything to do with the present. Unless, of course, that you want to play a Flandry game, of valiantly staving off the darkness...

As I said: lots of fun.

You are pretty much on your own as far as canon goes, but that just means that you can pick and chose rather freely. And you can certainly steal stuff from the 3I. The only major problem would be that technically you might want to tone down the technology bit, which means that you can't just use the 3I ships and stuff, but... well... don't ask, don't tell.

Alan Bradley
 
Vice-Admiral Vidmar Kulkinski wrote:

"Can anyone help me with any "official" sources for Emperors of the Rule of Man."


Sir,

Other than a few mentions of Hiroshi I and II in various publications ranging from CT to GT, there is *no* official list of 2nd Imperium rulers. There has never even been a named Emperor or Empress associated with the famous -1776 banking crisis date for the 'fall' of the 2I or a name associated with the 2I rump state on Sylea that was used as legitimacy for the newly founded 3I.

"So far I've got the following information:"

Nice mix of cultures and races. Where did you get it and why do you think it is 'official'?


Sincerely,
Larsen
 
Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
Nice mix of cultures and races. Where did you get it and why do you think it is 'official'?
Click to expand...
It isn't official. A longer version of it was posted to the TML a few years pre-Whipsnade.

I believe at least some of it is reflected in Don McKinney's "Unified Traveller Timeline". At least some, and possibly all, of it may have come from Mick Bailey's "Unbroken Pride" material. A quick Google should give you the appropriate sites.

It's not canon, but it's good stuff, doesn't contradict canon, and is accepted by at least a few people other than its creator.

In other words, like everything else, including canon, use it, unless you don't feel like it.


Alan Bradley
 
alanb wrote:

"I believe at least some of it is reflected in Don McKinney's "Unified Traveller Timeline". At least some, and possibly all, of it may have come from Mick Bailey's "Unbroken Pride" material. A quick Google should give you the appropriate sites."


Mr. Bradley,

Thanks for the tips!

"It's not canon, but it's good stuff, doesn't contradict canon, and is accepted by at least a few people other than its creator."

That's what I get for posting too quickly. I don't care if it is not canon in the OTU. I liked it, I saved it, and I'm damn sure it may soon be canon IMTU. I was just unsure as to the VADM's ideas about it's 'pedigree'. He asked about how official the list was and I was intrigued to know if the creator or the person who posted it on the web had made some untoward claims. We all know what the untoward claims made by the 'TL of the ROM' chap you mentioned did.

"In other words, like everything else, including canon, use it, unless you don't feel like it.
"

Wise words indeed. The only real test of utility is whether you can use something and I can definitely use this.


Sincerely,
Larsen
 
http://www.seemann.ms/library/index.htm

Is where I got much of the information from... given your feedback I suspect that much of this is the invention of the website.

Still I like the idea of adventures in the rule of man. For some reason it seems very Byzantine of sort of 11-13th century rather than the 3i roman model.

Thanks for your comments

Vidmar
 
Originally posted by Vice-Admiral Vidmar Kulkinski:
http://www.seemann.ms/library/index.htm

Is where I got much of the information from... given your feedback I suspect that much of this is the invention of the website.

Still I like the idea of adventures in the rule of man. For some reason it seems very Byzantine of sort of 11-13th century rather than the 3i roman model.
Click to expand...
I note that the site you have quoted credits its sources. The material about the Rule of Man emperors is indeed drawn from Mick Bailey's work.

The RoM definitely has potential as a game setting. Your Byzantine analogy is quite appropriate. In fact, it took me a few minutes to fully appreciate it!

From a certain viewpoint, the Terran conquest was quite reminiscent of the 4th Crusade - a piratical enterprise that ensured the destruction of an ancient civilisation. Of course, there is no equivalent of the Turks* in the picture, but no analogue is perfect.

Alan Bradley

*Well, actually, there is an old joke about the OTU being "Turks in Space". It's a long story.
 
And insofar as tech level goes, Marc Miller said at a seminar that one reason why the 3I got so proud of itself right around the end of the Solomani Rim War (the Mature Imperium), was that it finally did two things: encomapassed both Vland and Terra and that the common "High Tech" level finally exceeded the RoM. This implies (no more, just implies) to me that the RoM maxed (on cutting edge worlds) at VERY early 14. This would further imply that the highest "TL in common service" would be 13.

After all, we currently understand the magnetic principles behind gauss weapons... but are sommmat like 10-15 years ahead of full deployment as a battle rifle.
 
Well, as a half-Solly myself (my mother "being a Zho"), I could take insult at that, milord... But then again, who knows what's up in the Confederation...?

Seriously, though, what would be a good online resource for Rule of So-lo-Man-i (te. he.), so I have some background for this debate?
 
Seriously, though, what would be a good online resource for Rule of So-lo-Man-i (te. he.), so I have some background for this debate?
Click to expand...
If you can find TML archives from about 5(?) years ago, it's all in there. Don't sit too close to the screen, you might get burned...

My (ie the correct) view:

We know the Ziru Sirka was only TL11, because the Terran invention of J-3 drives (TL12) helped them win.

The RoM lasted about 500 years, most of which consisted of the Terrans taking over Vilani worlds and trying to stop the Imperium collapsing around them.

The 3I took 1000 years of steady progress to go from TL12 to TL15.

Therefore, the RoM might have managed to reach TL13 before it fell apart, but no higher.

(The other (ie wrong) view is that the RoM reached *at least* TL14).
 
Yes, and the poster is always "right." (
file_23.gif
!) Thanks!

Anyway, two questions spring up. First, how do I get to the TML (and yes, I will be looking once I post this)? And second, do I have to be a TML member to look at the archives?
 
What year do you want to set your campaign in? Is it recently after the Rule of Man was established? Ever consider whether any terran nations might have mixed feeling about whether to establish an Empire at all. Some of the nations existing at this time may be familiar to us. Some might prefer to establish a small republic encompasing a few stars rather than a large Imperium, they may consider the decline of the Imperium to be a victory of sorts. Then their are religious fundamentalists, all this contact with extraterestrial humans and aliens might undermine the tenants of their belief systems and they might welcome the demise of the Rule of Man, so they can impose their own "flat Earth theories". Then there are the "Space Barbarians" these are tech-savy barbarians that don't care for civilization and the loot and plunder, taking hostages to repair their drives and so forth. They are not so good with gadgets except they know how to fire a gun and the keep more knowledgable people as slaves to run their ships.
 
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