4mm Gauss AutoPistol

[coliver988]

Okay, so this was done 30+ years ago with some updates. May not make any sense or feasibility but throwing it out there. As I've never even shot a gun of any sort, no ideas about the reality of things (despite there being several guns in my house - my wife does shoot (hunts, fishes. I may not survive the apocalypse but she will . Not sure why she feels the need to store some of the ammo cases under my side of the bed though). My blog (linked at the bottom) has this as well as an image I, err, found on the interwebs.

Cr: 1250, TL D
Magazine: 30 rounds, Cr40
Range:
Effective - 50m (6)
Long - 100m (3)
Extreme - 175m (1)
Weight: 1650 grams; magazine (30 rounds): 350 grams
Size: 45cm long, handle 20cm, barrel 8cm diameter
Clip size: 15x5.4x2cm
Rechargeable batteries: time between recharge: 3000 rounds (100 clips).
Options:
hi-res scope, computer enhanced, 10x50 lenses, light enhancement and passive IR. Cr250, 320grams, 15x3.5cm
carry-all personalock (tm) with composite laminate case (.25cm armor, AR2), holds autopistol and 5 clips. Cr 105, 750 grams, 50x25x10cm
Repair kit: battery tester, electronic diagnostic computer, microtools, cleaning fluids, cloths and utensils. Cr795, 1050grams, 25x20x5cm

The hand-drawn picture looks alarmingly like one of those caulking guns...Pretty sure this is old Striker stuff.

Trying to get through the T5 Gunmaker is...challenging. At least in the book - I need to check the 5.09 version to see if they've made it easier. And 5.1 is supposed to be coming out soon. As posted elsewhere, still on the fence.

AltGPM-13
Advanced Light Gauss Pistol Man - 13
Range: 2
Effects: Bullet 3

Pretty much a guess there...

 

[Timerover51]

You do understand that 8 cm is over 3 inches in diameter. Forty-five centimeters is just under 18 inches long. That is going to be a bit of an unwieldy weapon. And you are putting a scope on it. That is not a pistol but a carbine, as it definitely is going to need two hands to shoot it effectively.

 

[coliver988]

You are right. I did just transcribe 30 year old notes from the college age me who knew nothing (and still knows little) about guns at all. I think I was cutting the Gauss VRF in half for the length, but who knows. I should have given it more thought...

So: that was the early version proof of concept version

Once refined, and the electronics of the barrel going from prototype breadboard to finished components, the gun becomes a more manageable size. Still just throwing things out there (I was looking to see about the dimensions of pistols and had more than a hard time, and now I am pretty sure I am going to get bombarded by NRA and anti-gun advertisements all at the same time - and stopping that discussion before I see the pit or warnings coming my way)

Size of production model: 25cm length with a 4cm barrel weighing 450 grams. Brings the -2 for initial version in hitting to zero. So v1 had some serious issues. v2 probably does as well.

Think of this as crowdsourcing from people that know for those of who do not know. Eventually something will show up that makes the fewest people with any knowledge not cringe or laugh.

also found this when checking for sizes: A “pistol” was defined as a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm. The bills would reduce the length requirement to 26 inches or less. (http://miafr.com/2012/10/23/summary-of-michigans-new-pistol-definition-law/)

 

[Condottiere]

I'm doing a little reverse engineering on the Advanced Combat Rifle for the Confederation; I've already decided that the Confederation Navy uses the Gauss Pistol as it's default shipboard weapon.

I'm not a gunsmith, and good luck with Tee Five.

I visualize the Confederation variant, ironically because the way the Confederation Navy is described in it's role, as looking a little bit as a Star Trek phaser using a bullpup feed system that allows an overall shorter length while maintaining the same barrel length.

 

[SpaceBadger]

TL-14 Gauss Pistol for MgT

Here is the one I made up for a Mongoose Traveller game 5 years ago:

Gauss Pistol (TL-14)
gauss pistol weapon
Improved over the TL-13 version for twice as much ammo.

Category:
weapon (ranged)

Description:
Gauss Pistol TL-14 Ranged (pistol) 3d6 auto(4) recoil(-1) mass(0.5) magazine(2×40) cost(750) ammo cost(20)*

The TL-14 Gauss Pistol improves on the TL-13 version primarily in its use of 3mm needles that are capable of the same damage and penetration as the earlier 4mm needles, due to use of improved aerodynamics and denser metal. This, combined with advanced magazine design, allows the TL-14 version to hold two standard magazines side by side, providing twice as much ammunition and allowing the user to choose from two different ammunition types if desired.

Ammunition Types (and price per magazine):

Standard: Typical gauss needle with high-density core and expanding exterior to provide maximum penetration and damage for a slugthrower projectile. Cr20/magazine.

Frangible: The needle is of lower density, lower ferrous content to reduce muzzle velocity, and is scored to fragment into slivers on impact, thus greatly reducing penetration while keeping the same damage potential against soft targets. Used primarily on shipboard or in situations where damage to equipment or overpenetration of walls may be a problem. Cr20/magazine.

Tranquilizer: The projectile has a very thin hard shell, an interior of gel that is a topical anesthetic, and a tiny crystal sliver of very strong tranquilizer which is self-dosing so as to avoid overdose in smaller targets such as children. The gel is lightly doped with ferrous compounds to give this round the lowest muzzle velocity and penetration of any gauss round; it will penetrate normal clothing but probably not a heavy coat, and does negligible physical damage. Max range is Short. Treat as standard Tranq round in effect. Cr30/magazine.

Shock: Optimized for use against robots or other electronics, this round has less mass and therefore does only 2d6 regular damage, but emits an electromagnetic pulse that does an additional 2d6 to robots or electronics within 1m of impact. Cr50/magazine.


*
Hmm. Appears that I did not actually address the size of the weapon, other than it's mass, which I probably just copied from some other weapon description. I've always envisioned it looking something like my trusty High Standard Model C, which is, umm, don't have any measuring device handy but my calibrated eyeball says total length 30cm, width at receiver 2cm, outer diameter of barrel 1cm. This is a .22, but that's 5.588mm, so kinda in the ballpark. Now about the magazine, dunno if all that is gonna fit in the grip, so maybe put it in front of the trigger-guard like a broomhandle Mauser. That might add some to length of the receiver and therefore total weapon length. What do you gun guys think?

*

 

[mike wightman]

Why not just go with the CT stats that are in Striker?

TL13 4 mm gauss pistol - mass 0.65kg unloaded, cost Cr600 unloaded
ammo 15 rounds in a 200g mag that costs Cr20
range/penetration - effective 2 (4) long 4 (3) extreme 6 (1)
Dex DMs 7 (-2) 10 (+I)

 

[Timerover51]

To give you some basic background in small arms, you might want to check out the following Department of Army Pam on archive.org. It dates from 1954, but will give a good idea as to what characteristics weaponry should have in terms of size and weight.

https://archive.org/details/Dapam30-7-4

If you want more help, let me know.

Edit Note: A couple of more sources.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/41335/41335-h/41335-h.htm
Automatic Pistol Shooting Together with Information on Handling the Duelling Pistol and Revolver This dates from 1915, and covers the automatic pistols. Size of pistols has not changed a lot over the years. I do prefer the Colt 1911A1 version.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/41388/41388-h/41388-h.htm#Page_15
The Modern American Pistol and Revolver This dates from 1888, but does cover the single shot pistols, giving you some ideas as to how big a pistol can be and still be used.

 

[Condottiere]

With weapons, you hava to figure out what you're going to be using them for, and under what conditions, three thousand years in the future.

Traveller has decided that three dee six is enough to effectively incapacitate a human opponent, and that basic bullet weapon system plateaus between technological levels five to eleven.

 

[coliver988]

Why not just go with the CT stats that are in Striker?

TL13 4 mm gauss pistol - mass 0.65kg unloaded, cost Cr600 unloaded
ammo 15 rounds in a 200g mag that costs Cr20
range/penetration - effective 2 (4) long 4 (3) extreme 6 (1)
Dex DMs 7 (-2) 10 (+I)

Good question as I had the books at the time!

 

[kilemall]

With weapons, you hava to figure out what you're going to be using them for, and under what conditions, three thousand years in the future.

Traveller has decided that three dee six is enough to effectively incapacitate a human opponent, and that basic bullet weapon system plateaus between technological levels five to eleven.

I don't see that, at all.


The full Striker ACR with DS round is hitting like a .50 cal in a handheld rifle. That's a hell of an upgrade.


After looking at the LAG hard, I decided that's more in the anti-tank/anti-material realm of the ATRs and Barrett's, so I roll with an effective pen rating equal to the TL, and gussy it up with Gauss versions in the later TLs.

 

[Condottiere]

Which is the point, you have to discard sabot the bullet in order to get an improvement, not counting range.

 

[kilemall]

Which is the point, you have to discard sabot the bullet in order to get an improvement, not counting range.

Hmmm, chemical propellant upgrades along with better materials tech for the barrel handling the greater pressures, and the whole recoil rig to make it light and manageable while handheld. Not casual at all.


As far as DS is concerned, not a bad guess for a 1980s look. Just as arguable I guess to say that same materials tech would make for better solid slug penetration. Don't have to guess in the case of the ACR, we have those merc on a budget slugs which are better then conventional rounds, but not revolutionary.



Of course, we have to remember this is weapons dev modeling in support of a game. You already have perfectly lethal handheld weapons at TL5-7, you move to 5D+ killer weapons at TL9+ without mitigation like the lasers, and there is no room for the heavier exotic stuff except as pen against CA/BD, and character lethality goes way up for little cost.

 

[Condottiere]

Which is what I noticed when I started reverse engineering the slug throwers, and why I stated that my take on the Confederation Navy adopts the gauss pistol instead of the Magnetic Rail, preferring penetration over damage.

The dart doesn't drop to the ground once it hits it's eighty metre extreme range limit.

 

[whartung]

I think an "ideal" gauss pistol will be something that fires a 1.5g (about 23 grains) bullet at 1000m/s out of a 10cm barrel.

That's 750J, or 555 ft/lbs (which is quite impressive for a pistol -- a typical 9mm is 325-350). That's just above .357 Magnum territory. No slouch indeed.

4mm is .16 caliber. We have .22 caliber 30 round pistols today (.22 Magnum to be precise, but diameter is major factor of magazine capacity).

Simply, the benefit of the pistol needs to be power and form factor, to be of value over a generic powder cartridge.

Modern .17 caliber are running 17 and 20 grain bullets.

 

[SpaceBadger]

I think what I'd expect out of a gauss pistol compared to an autopistol is same basic damage, improved penetration, and more ammo in the magazine. Maybe improved range, but I dunno if there is any RL support for that.

Plus, I dunno if this is pushing the reality stretchers or not, but I like the high TL-14 version fitting two parallel mags so you can have two different ammo types selectable in the gun, either lethal/non-lethal, or standard/frangible (penetrator/non-penetrator).

 

[Condottiere]

The option exists in at least one other game system, though without the magnetization.

In Mongoose First, there was a heavier naval variant of the gauss pistol, but the Confederation emphasizes ammunition and magazine compatibility between the Army, the Navy, the Marines, auxiliary paramilitary organizations, and the component member worlds militaries.

 

[whartung]

I think what I'd expect out of a gauss pistol compared to an autopistol is same basic damage, improved penetration, and more ammo in the magazine. Maybe improved range, but I dunno if there is any RL support for that.

In theory, you could make the gauss pistol a little more recoil friendly by spreading the acceleration impulse out compared to what you get with a standard powder cartridge.

Can you get .380 recoil but .357 performance? "Sure, why not" it's Science Fiction. Soft shooting, .357 with small hand grips. That package has a lot going for it..easier to shoot, more comfortable, less muzzle flip, easier followup shots, and 30 rds. I'd buy that for a dollar.

It's always a balance of power and ergonomics.