OTU Only: 567-908

[robject]

Having only read Adventure 10, I'm left wondering about the primary star around this world.

The world is in the habitable zone.
The world takes 42 years to orbit its star, putting it in Orbit 7 in Travellerspeak.

There are a few ways to interpret this:

1. They're orbiting a type III giant star. Pro: No retcon necessary. Con: Giants last millions of years, not billions: there's not enough time in the hab zone for evolution. Researchers would have to argue loudly over how it's possible. Transplant? Extremely Lucky, Accelerated, Punctuated Evolution? Something else?

2. They're orbiting a smaller star which in turn orbits another star at Orbit 7. Pro: It works. Con: It's a minor retcon, and a bit dodgy of a solution.

3. They're orbiting a G V in orbit #3. Pro: This is astronomically correct for evolutionary purposes. Con: The "42 years" bit is also forced to adapt, perhaps relating to periodic solar activity, since the year length at orbit 3 is, approximately, one Terran year. This also makes 567-908 just another Mars in an Earth orbit. Yawn.

4. Move the orbit so it can be multiplied to reach 42, that also works with an appropriate long-life star. Same general pros and cons as #3. Has significant overlap with #5.

5. Let them orbit a class IV star, perhaps in orbit 6. The same pros and cons apply from #3, but at least the orbit and star is a little more exotic. Has significant overlap with #4.

 

[samuelvss]

1. They're orbiting a type III giant star. Pro: No retcon necessary. Con: Giants last millions of years, not billions: there's not enough time in the hab zone for evolution. Researchers would have to argue loudly over how it's possible. Transplant? Extremely Lucky, Accelerated, Punctuated Evolution? Something else?

Higher radiation would accelerate evolution, though this need not be the only source. Anyway, I tend towards #1.

 

[rancke]

The world is in the habitable zone.
The world takes 42 years to orbit its star, putting it in Orbit 7 in Travellerspeak.

There are a few ways to interpret this:

1. They're orbiting a type III giant star. Pro: No retcon necessary. Con: Giants last millions of years, not billions: there's not enough time in the hab zone for evolution. Researchers would have to argue loudly over how it's possible. Transplant? Extremely Lucky, Accelerated, Punctuated Evolution? Something else?

Who knows? Who cares? I wouldn't know that type III giant stars don't last long enough for a proper biosphere to evolve if someone didn't tell me. I do know that worlds orbiting in the life zone of main sequence stars don't take 42 years per orbit. So the first wouldn't break my SoD while the second would.

I'm not saying that entirely self-consistent of me, but that's the way it is. So I would vote for #1.


Hans

 

[mike wightman]

Main sequence stars eventually expand to become giants.

Our Sun will eventually be a red giant with a habitable zone between 7-22 AU and will stay that way for a billion years.

What if the shrieker's planet is the remnant of the civilisation that existed in the system in the pre-expansion days?

The original system inhabitants are long gone Kursae (they did spread to 5000 worlds across half the galaxy after all), or at least a colony of them. When the star started to go though its expansion phase they "terraformed" the shrieker's world.

When the Kursae left evolution took it's course an the shrieker's evolved from animals transplanted to the ark world.

 

[robject]

What if the shrieker's planet is the remnant of the civilisation that existed in the system in the pre-expansion days?

The original system inhabitants are long gone Kursae (they did spread to 5000 worlds across half the galaxy after all), or at least a colony of them. When the star started to go though its expansion phase they "terraformed" the shrieker's world.

When the Kursae left evolution took it's course an the shrieker's evolved from animals transplanted to the ark world.

Mike, thanks for giving me Option #6.

 

[MCEvans]

Just an FYI
In my copy of A10 I made a note that stellar info was M0 III

The Travellermap.com gives Second Survey Data as follows:
1031 567-908 E532000-0 Ba Po (Shriekers) { -3 } (200-3) [0000] 010 9 Na G5 V M9 V

Now how do we explain 42.5 years with this?
My idea is it orbits both in a very elliptic orbit

very late

 

[mike wightman]

Mike, thanks for giving me Option #6.

No probs.

Until I read T5 I'd never heard of the Kursae. Now I want to start dropping clues to their existence to players. Shrieker world looks like a good place to start.

 

[robject]

Just an FYI
In my copy of A10 I made a note that stellar info was M0 III

The Travellermap.com gives Second Survey Data as follows:
1031 567-908 E532000-0 Ba Po (Shriekers) { -3 } (200-3) [0000] 010 9 Na G5 V M9 V

Now how do we explain 42.5 years with this?
My idea is it orbits both in a very elliptic orbit

very late

Yeah. The G V solution is the retcon solution, provisionally accepted during a pass over the Spinward Marches, because the printed solution doesn't work given the usual assumptions (i.e. the Shriekers evolved purely naturally on 567-908).

The M0 III, I think, won't quite get us to Orbit 7. But, a K8 III would.

The key here is not to draw any generalizations, but instead to look at this system as its own unique thing, and then pick the interesting solution. To me that says a giant star. It opens up lots of questions that have interesting answers, and I don't have to answer any of them definitively.

 

[mike wightman]

Hence the Kursae - can't get more interestiong than them

There's a lot more questions and mysteries surrounding them than the Ancients IMHO.

 

[robject]

Hence the Kursae - can't get more interestiong than them

There's a lot more questions ann mysteries surrounding them than the Ancients IMHO.

In a way, it was kind of a letdown -- is that the right word? -- knowing who the Ancients were.

 

[mike wightman]

Yeh I know what you mean. Mind you the MgT version of SotA freshens things up a bit, and the high TL rules in T5 open up new possibilities too.

 

[MCEvans]

No probs.

Until I read T5 I'd never heard of the Kursae. Now I want to start dropping clues to their existence to players. Shrieker world looks like a good place to start.

Is there more info in the T5 thread or is it scattered through out the MBB (massive black book) because this is the 1st I've heard of them.

 

[mike wightman]

This is all there is:

The False Dawn (200,000 BCe)
There was a time, after the Ancients and before the rise of Humaniti, when another intelligent race – the Kursae -- rose to technological power, reached the stars, and then faded to obscurity.
From an unidentified homeworld somewhere in now- Charted Space, these sophonts reached out and settled nearly five thousand worlds across half the galaxy.
Over the next thousand centuries these many worlds of the Kursae all followed a common path: a downward spiral to a comfortable low technology level where they are today... sharing a common heritage of myths about their past.
What drove these sophonts, filled with such potential, to reject expansion and abandon growth and instead embrace a simple static existence?

There is a hint in the choices faced by high TL societies section as to what has happened...

 

[MCEvans]

An I thought that the first mention of the Ancients was vague.

Home World - Charted Space
Colonized - 5k+ systems in and beyond Charted Space (1/2 the galaxy?)

Questions:
Did they build on Ancient Tech or evolve there own?
How can you tell the difference between the two?
Which direction(s) did they go?
How many hooks can you make with these guys? (Adventure/Campaign)
Are they sill around?
Did they interact with Humans? Vargr? Aslan? Others?

And just to open the can of worms-
have we found the source of the 'Empress Wave'?

 

[Zephyrinus]

The wiki says they settled known space with generation ships.
http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Kursae

Is that speculation, or is there another reference in T5 (maybe I should go look...)

P.S. - That would, if true, hint against the high TL hint.

 

[Zephyrinus]

More from T5:

“Flash” - “The Perception-based Poice language of the Kursae.” (T5, 163).

Nothing about generation ships though...

 

[Whipsnade]

Having only read Adventure 10, I'm left wondering about the primary star around this world...

Wow, Robject, you always pose the best head-scratchers, don't you?

Leaving aside the excellent and intriguing Kursae angle, the question all seems to hinge on there being enough time for the Shriekers' evolution. You want a star old enough for that evolution to occur and yet still have that 42-year long orbit.

Attempting to adhere to the SPR1 standard, I'll suggest that 567-908 is a moon of a "warm Jupiter" which is in Orbit 7. The canonical primary and warm giant combine to keep 567-908 habitable, the 42-year year is retained, and there's more of a "reason" for the planet's canonical seismic activity.

Other than that, tweaking the primary as already suggested can't hurt.


1 - Smallest Possible Retcon

 

[MCEvans]

Wow, Robject, you always pose the best head-scratchers, don't you?

Leaving aside the excellent and intriguing Kursae angle, the question all seems to hinge on there being enough time for the Shriekers' evolution. You want a star old enough for that evolution to occur and yet still have that 42-year long orbit.

Attempting to adhere to the SPR1 standard, I'll suggest that 567-908 is a moon of a "warm Jupiter" which is in Orbit 7. The canonical primary and warm giant combine to keep 567-908 habitable, the 42-year year is retained, and there's more of a "reason" for the planet's canonical seismic activity.

Other than that, tweaking the primary as already suggested can't hurt.


1 - Smallest Possible Retcon

So the retcon would be adding the GG instead of changing the main star?

One of the concerns is evolutionary time and million year time frames. The Shriekers path only started 20k+/- years ago (Game Time) and achieved TL 1 (3 for GURPS) -10k years that lasted for about 4k years. Seismic activity is the limiting factor for there advancement.

 

[Whipsnade]

So the retcon would be adding the GG instead of changing the main star?

Yes. That way you can keep both the primary which is old enough to allow for "enough" evolution on the Shrieker world and the 42-year orbit.

I'm using the "warm Jupiter" to create an "annex" to the system's habitable zone.

One of the concerns is evolutionary time and million year time frames.

Yes. That's why I want to keep the old primary.

The Shriekers path only started 20k+/- years ago (Game Time) and achieved TL 1 (3 for GURPS) -10k years that lasted for about 4k years. Seismic activity is the limiting factor for there advancement.

A "reason" for increased seismic activity could be viewed as a benefit of this retcon. IIRC, the catastrophe which destroyed Shrieker civilization was the rapid subsiding of a tectonic plate and it's subsequent inundation by a nearby sea.

 

[MCEvans]

So retcon a Large "warm" GG, we add GG that is not useable for fuel (skimming) thus not marked as a GG in stats. Correct?

Next question is where does the second star fit in, the M9 V? close, far or other system in parsec? or could this be your "warm GG"?

Just an FYI this thread has made me look at this system in a whole new light, I like it.