A few mechanics questions

[RickA]

Okay, it seems every week my group gets utterly stumped by questions that come up in game play. Love Traveller, appreciate T20, but I must say the book is poorly organized and the rules are sketchy at best in some regards. /sigh/ But, you work with what ya got.

So, questions for the rules lawyers (not a pejoritive, all referee's have to be rules lawyers, heh):


1. How long does it take to replace a destroyed jump drive on a Jump 2 scout courier? And where did you find that information?

2. Engineers can overpower the ships drives to boost agility in combat. Using a standard Scout S ship as an example, what exactly is the process for determining the bonus to Agility if the engineer performs this action?

3. Is radiation exposure cumulative? In real life it is, but how about in Traveller?

Just things that came to mind from tonight's game session. If someone can answer these questions I'd be very grateful.

 

[Malenfant]

Bill - I'm sure he realises that he can just make up the answers as GM - but he's not asking someone to tell him to figure it out for himself, he wants to know if there are answers in the book.

Since you seem to be very keen to stick to the questions asked by the thread-starters elsewhere, how about you do the same here? If you're unwilling or incapable of providing a useful answer, then don't bother to answer the damn thread at all and leave it for someone else who can answer properly. Because as it is, you're just coming off being as unhelpful and rude.

Anyway, to provide some USEFUL answers...:

1) I suspect a destroyed jump drive is going to be impossible to repair without getting the ship to a full-on repair facility at a starport. But a damaged one might be repairable in the field - take a look at p168/169 and see if the Battlefield Repair info there is any help.

2) See Excess Power Routing, page 163 - that should answer your question.

3) Yes, radiation exposure should be cumulative. p388 says that continual radiation exposure does damage per hour of exposure.

Incidentally, I found all of this info by looking in the index (for Repairs, Engineer Actions, and Radiation respectively), at the back of the book starting on page 432. The index is your friend!

 

[RickA]

Wow, Bill, you're utterly unhelpful! Please don't reply to any post I ever make here, thanks! And if you'll do that for me, I'll refrain from a thousand word post ripping your attitude.

Malenfant, thanks for your reply.

1. My question is "How long does it take to replace a jump drive on a Jump 2 scout ship." I dare say your'e right, a destroyed one won't be repaired, it needs to be replaced. In my game last night the group had a misjump which destroyed the jump drive. Great, that result of the misjump came straight off the chart, but I can find nothing in the book that tells me how long it ought to take to install a new jump drive on a ship.

Now, if the rules for misjumps and combat can destroy a device onboard, then we're going to need information on how long and how expensive it is to replace those parts. I cannot find these rules in the book and it's a rather important question, aye?

2. Excess Power Routing on page 163 is what INSPIRED the question, hehe. The question is, considerng what page 163 says, using an example of a Type S, what exactly is the process for determing the results of overpowering the engines? What is the agility bonus and why? I ask this because I have to assume that many folks have played T20 and have used the rules on page 163, but I have not before last night. And we failed to understand what this mechanic was trying to tell us. Can someone please explain, using the scenario I've proposed?

3. Continual radiation exposure does damage per hour of exposure, but what I mean is to find out if they intended it to be cumulative. If someone is exposed to 300 rads of radiation, then a year later exposed to 100, their lifetime exposure is now 400 rads. Does T20 intend to inflict the 301+ level of damage to the guy who took 100 rads a year after taking 250, for example? I'm okay with it either way, I just can't tell from looking at the book which way it's intended to be.

 

[BetterThanLife]

For Question 3.

Real world, and using technology and medicine at current Real World Tech Level, say early TL8, there is no cure for radiation exposure. Your body can't flush radiation. Radiation exposure is culumative over your lifetime. It doesn't matter whether the radiation exposure is over 20 years or 5 minutes, the results would be the same. (Though if you catch that many rads in 5 minutes you usually have other problems.

)

So to answer the question, IMTU yes you take the damage at the 301+ level no matter how you got to that level. Unless there is a High Tech medical means of flushing your system of the rads. (Say at about TLC.)

 

[BetterThanLife]

Excess Power Routing: My reading of the rules say you can route excess power to agility, but agility is limited to your Maneuver drive rating. (Kind of like the old Emergency Agility rules from LBB5.)

 

[BetterThanLife]

Replacing a Jump Drive: PArts in a Starship that are designed to be maintained have to be accessable. Further there have to be proceedures to replace them. If a new unit is available, I would think it would take less than 2 weeks to install, power and test. Especially in a standard ship designed for long service like a Scout Ship. (In fact because the Type-S is so common and because it is designed to be used for long service on the fringes, probably less than a week to install a new Jump Drive.)

No removing a Drive from a ship would depend on how many pieces it is in, what got fused, etc. But in general about the same time 3-10 days being a good guide. SO you are looking at a week minimum to a month maximum.

Remember you can change out an engine in an F-15 in about an hour. (Design specification.) BUt that is without clearing away damage, opening an area designed to be air tight, replacing components, and conecting components, then resealing the compartment.

Unfortunately this isn't actually covered in any rules but my interpretation based on several factors including full annual overhaul of a Starship takes 2 weeks.

 

[RandyT0001]

Based on my reading:

1. It will take 3.5 days to repair (by replacement) the destroyed Jump drive at a Class B starport or it will take 2.333 days at a Class A starport. Costs = full price of 2x Jump 2 drive units or MCr12 based on repair rules p. 169.

2. The Scout has 4 EP, 2EP to power the maneuver drive (or jump drive) and 2EP excess to power any energy or beam weapons (or larger computer) later installed. If the excess EP is routed from the weapons (or weapons aren't installed) the engineer can apply via emergency agility (p163) the excess power to the maneuver drives changing the Scouts agility from 0 to +2. The adjustment in agility makes it more difficult for the craft to be hit in combat by changing the AC from 10 to 12. (The stat blocks on p. 325 assume the inclusion of excess power agility bonus to AC)

3. Once a person has absorbed 301+ rads they suffer the ill affects. For example if a person has been exposed to 300 rads previously then is caught in a radiaton leak at the rate of 2 rads per hour then he would begin to suffer the damage listed per hour of exposure. He needs to very quickly remove himself from further exposure or die. Normal background radiation (as we experience here on Earth) do not add to his total radiation exposure since it is very small compared to 2 rads per hour and because the human body can cleanse itself of such low (backround) levels of exposure. However the person exposed to 301+ rads must be careful with TL8- X-rays for broken bones, etc. because these levels, though small compared to 2 rads/hour, are still too high for the human body to cleanse itself of (except over the course of several months or years). X-ray technology may have advanced enough at higher tech level (9+) for this not to be a problem but you as referee must make that determination.

Hope this helps.

 

[RickA]

Okay, thanks guys, good info there.

Agreed on radiation. I don't think it's clear in book but what the heck, I'll go with lifetime cumulative in the absence of technology to repair significant pinpoint genetic damage.

Warp Drive Replacement Time: Randy, that's essentially what I came down to also (except I only charged 'em for the drive, not x2 the drive because 6mCr for a random chance event seemed damned harsh and 12mCr actually sadistic, lol). You can "repair two systems" per week at a B starport. So, I guess that means that it doesn't take any longer to replace a warp drive or manueuver drive than it does to repair a hit on a fuel tank. /shrug/ If that's the best data in the book, I consider that another thin spot in the rules system so we'll just have to work with what they've given us.

Emergency Power: Ye gods, this one is driving me nuts. Please, game devs, don't throw something crucially important to the players (like a combat action) into the rules without explaining what the heck it really means. Now, the Scout ship already has an agility rating of 2, giving it an armor class of 12. If my engineer performs the action to increase power output to the engines, does it do anything? What do they mean by "increasing to the maximum rating of the agility according to specification"? I'm sorry, I'm trying hard to grok this but it's just going right over my head for some reason.

Have any of you played T20 and had your engineer attempt this maneuver? I'd assume it happens in almost every single combat that a ship engages in since there isn't a lot else for the engineer to do in a fight (unless there is damage) and a +(x) to armor class in any fight is a valuable contribution.

 

[Chaos]

Jump Drive replacement time should (IMHO) depend on what state it is in. Is it only non-functional but can still be easily taken apart and removed from the ship? Or has it molten into a giant pile of slag (A Jump-2 drive for a Type S is 42 cubic metres big, or roughly 1500 cubic feet!) that has to be cut into pieces before it can be removed? The latter should take long enough for the characters to have an adventure or tw on that world...

My take on the emergency power thing is that, since the maneuver drive uses 2 EP to give the ship an agility rating of 2, then 4 EP (including emergency power) should give it an agility rating of 4, i.e. AC 14; or maybe less, since emergency power isn´t as efficient as normal powers - AFAIK afterburners on jet aircraft, for example, use about 10 times as much fuel but give "only" 50-100% higher speed.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by RickA:
Okay, thanks guys, good info there.

Emergency Power: Ye gods, this one is driving me nuts. Please, game devs, don't throw something crucially important to the players (like a combat action) into the rules without explaining what the heck it really means. Now, the Scout ship already has an agility rating of 2, giving it an armor class of 12. If my engineer performs the action to increase power output to the engines, does it do anything? What do they mean by "increasing to the maximum rating of the agility according to specification"? I'm sorry, I'm trying hard to grok this but it's just going right over my head for some reason.

Have any of you played T20 and had your engineer attempt this maneuver? I'd assume it happens in almost every single combat that a ship engages in since there isn't a lot else for the engineer to do in a fight (unless there is damage) and a +(x) to armor class in any fight is a valuable contribution.

With the rules clearly stating that maximum Agility is equal to the rating of the Maneuver Drive, increasing power output on a vanilla Scout Ship has no real use. If the ship has a Laser or two installed, or a Model 3-4 COmputer, then it becomes useful. As not all power is routed to the maneuver drive anymore. This way a Scout Ship with a Dual Beam Laser Mount would still be able to have some agility and fire the weapons.

Under HG it was Emergency Agility and you lost your ability to fire Energy weapons while increasing your agility to a maximum of the ships Maneuver Drive rating.

I may be reading the rules wrong but this feels like the intent, based on earlier versions of Traveller.

 

[RandyT0001]

Originally posted by RickA:

2. Engineers can overpower the ships drives to boost agility in combat. Using a standard Scout S ship as an example, what exactly is the process for determining the bonus to Agility if the engineer performs this action?

Having re-read "Ship's Agility" on p.266 and "Excess Power Routing" on p. 163 I point out the following from p. 163. "If a vessel can produce excess power (in the form of Energy Points or EP) beyond what is needed for its drives, subsystems, and agility rating, it may apply this extra power in a couple of ways."

In essence your engineer has no excess power beyond what is already needed for the maneuver drives (2EP) and the agility rating (2EP) on the standard Scout ship (which produces only 4 EP). Therefore your engineer cannot use Emergency agility nor overpower weapons. There is no need to make the skill check, he can't do it.

 

[far-trader]

Yep that was my interpretation too Randy.

IMTU I go a step further and require that the excess EP be enough to actually provide the agility and/or weapon power required.

For example, the Scout again, only with an 8EP powerplant, would have 4EP extra. Enough for emergency agility of +2* (2EP, limited to +2 by both the maneuver drive rating and the built in agility rating) and 2EP of power for weapons which IMTU would allow a single Laser (1EP) to be overpowered by one level (1EP for a +1 to the USP). Or alternatively you could just have two Lasers (2EP) and no overpower capability. Unless you choose to use the emergency agility power to overpower the weapon(s). The weapon overpower rules IMTU seem more reasonable to me and not so unbalancing. If that comes through clearly. YMMV.

* I do allow emergency agility to add to built in agility, but there is a chance of wrecking the drives, much like the chance of blowing your weapons if overpowered.

 

[RickA]

Sweet, okay, so if the power plant produces no more energy than what is needed for the maneuver drive and the agility rating (in this case, 4EP) then it can't be over driven. That makes fine sense.

And give them the option of pulling all power from the weapons in order to run like hell.

Still won't help on a vessel like this if I'm reading you guys right, since the vessel doesn't produce enough power to run the drives and the guns and the agility?

This is a very important part of the ships combat rules. That's the only reason I'm trying so hard to find out what you guys do at your game table when your engineers do this (which I assume they always do, there isn't much else for an engineer to do other than damage control).

So, if you have a Scout S which DOES have an extra couple of EP after powering the maneuver drive and the "agility" (whatever hardware that is) how do you calculate how much extra agility the ship can aquire?

 

[Psion]

Two decicredits *plink plink*

1) Yes, ships at the low end are very underpowered, especially if they are also low tech. But it makes crew all the more important, which I like.

2) Radiation exposure, in response to Bhoins (NOT A RULES ANSWER):

Real world, and using technology and medicine at current Real World Tech Level, say early TL8, there is no cure for radiation exposure. Your body can't flush radiation. Radiation exposure is culumative over your lifetime. It doesn't matter whether the radiation exposure is over 20 years or 5 minutes, the results would be the same.

That is over-simplifying to the point of leading you to the wrong conclusion; if that's the basis behind the rule, I would change it. (Don't have rules handy, so I would have to bounce them against one another to see.)

First off, the phrasing "your body can't flush out radiation" is either nonsensical or misleading. Your body might flush out contamination (whether or not it can depends on the contamination. Some isotopes are flushed out fairly quickly. Some, like strontium, are notorious for how long they remain in the body and are generally considered bad news.) But it never has to flush out radiation, because radiation is energy that is absorbed into your body and does its damage, or passes through.

As far as repairing the effects of radiation:
LONG TERM EFFECTS like genetic damage, you are correct. But this is things like eventually developing cancer, not the sort of thing that translates into immmediate ability damage or other sorts of lethal effects in RPGs.

However, when it comes to SHORT TERM EFFECTS, the thing that the rules appear to model (again, rules not in hand, just going by what I see here), you are incorrect. Most of the short term damage is from ionization and breaking bonds of various chemicals all over your body. These chemical imbalances, if survived, can indeed be "flushed out of your body", but they are the most immediately lethal effect.

If the rules seems to follow what you are saying, they need to be house ruled or errata'd.

 

[RickA]

Yah, it's the damage done by radiation exposure that isn't "healable" so you have a lifetime exposure level you have to worry about.

The effects of radiation exposure ingame include hairloss and sterlity among the other more mundane effects. So perhaps they do mean for it to be a lifetime exposure level?

 

[RickA]

Originally posted by RickA:
So, if you have a Scout S which DOES have an extra couple of EP after powering the maneuver drive and the "agility" (whatever hardware that is) how do you calculate how much extra agility the ship can aquire?

This is still a big question in my game. It seems most ships produce some extra power, and it's obvious that in every single combat between ships in which there has been no significant damage to a ship, the ship's engineer is GOING to overpower the drive for extra agility: it's the only ship combat action he can perform.

So, since this must come up in almost every single space combat and will likely happen on both PC and NPC ships, I ask you veteran referees:

How do you determine the amount of agility added to the ship by the engineer overpowering the drives?

 

[RickA]

Found the answer to this problem tonight, finally.

1. A ship with 3G acceleration has, at base, 0 Agility. This was a fact that I'd not been aware of, mistakenly thinking 3G accel gave you 3 Agility. Not so. The vast majority of ships out there have 0 agility.

2. How much extra power must the power plant produce to have a noticable difference when routed to the engines? According to "Ship's Agility" on page 266 (a reference you'll not find in the index under "agility" or anything like it) it gives us:

Extra Energy Points/(1 per 100 tons of ship). Round down.

So, let's say I've got a 300 ton ship with 3G acceleration maneuver drives. I need to produce an extra 3 EP and push that 3 EP to the engines (in addition to the normal EP sent to the maneuver drives to operate them) for a total of 12 EP sent to the maneuver drives to give this ship an agility of 1. The max I can boost the maneuver drive is by 9 EP (for a new total of 18 EP to the engines that round), giving the ship an Agility of 3 (the max = ships drive rating of 3G).

So, in the vast majority of cases the engineer cannot supercharge the maneuver drive unless the ship has powered down things like weapons. But in just about every ship ever made there are a few extra EP that can be found round by round in combat and the engineer is no DOUBT going to be pushing that extra EP to the engines if at all possible.

It adds quite a complication to the ship combat rules, having to figure every round how many extra EP every ship in a fight will have (are they firing all weapons this round? If not, that's more EP saved to be sent to the engines, etc) so it may not be worth it for NPC ships. Instead I'll just figure if they have any extra AFTER running all weapons and allow that for Agility.

But, for the PC's? I'll give them the "shut down all lasers, divert all power to the maneuver drive!" action.