Abstracting T20

[Laryssa]

Its interesting watching what Hasbro is doing with the 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons. They are abstracting it entirely and having no default core world. No Forgotten Realms, No Greyhawk, no Eberron. I wonder if they could do a similar thing for T20 Traveller? In otherwords say its a setting with starships, jumpdrives, various tech levels, weapons, and character options but don't get any more specific than that. For instance, one might include a sample subsector, or star system, allow options for 3-d mapping etc. Is it the specific setting or the type of setting that makes it work?

The thing is we are sort of pinned down by prior cannnon. Does there really need to be an Imperium with an Emperor sombody sitting on the Iridium Throne. If you don't feel like detailing a whole setting and would only like to run a small part of it, you could easily go 3-D. The only question is what general assumptions to use. D&D 4th Edition doesn't have a map, just generally assumptions about cosmology.

Traveller can be abstracted in a similar fasion.

Standard Core assumptions (What makes Traveller Traveller?)
1) First detail the technologies and character classes.
2) Starship Construction rules
3) Planet and System generation
4) Assume Interstellar Governments exist, but don't say what they are.
5) Give a few examples of planetary systems which the GM could insert into his or any campaign, but don't give them a specific location in a larger setting, stay vague about it.

Basically, what I'm talking about is seperating the game from the Setting the way D&D is

 

[aramis]

THe following assumptions are built into the rules of T20

1) there is a system of nobility
1a) Some nobles are actually in charge of stuff
2) Certain aspects of military service and the nature of the services
2a) Marine Tradition
2b) Marine Battledress
2c) Navy-Marine coservice
3) Jump Drives
3a) 1 week per jump
3b) 10% fuel per Pc
3c) JDrive vol= 1+Jn
3d) 100 Diameter safety limit
4) No FTL commo system other than shipping
5) fairly relaxed, stable, and minor interstellar trade (inferred from the encounter tables & trade tables)
6) largest ship sizes (due to computer requirements)

Extracating these would range from minor (all the #2 stuff) to major (3 & 6)

However, I suspect the SRD may make a T20 variant very possible.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

Hi,

In some ways you've kind of described the original Traveller. When I first started playing there really wasn't an Official Universe, and I can still recall messing around generating my own subsector. Ultimately, though we didn't end up using the stuff we generated because some of the Official stuff started coming out right about then so me and my friends began using that stuff instead.

Regards

PF

 

[Kevin C. Livingston]

All good ideas Laryssa and Aramis!

Along with saving T20 "as is" I'd like to see the following alternative rules too ad or not add as the referee decides:
Different rules for FTL Travel (albeit I have my own already)
Self Aware A.I.s/Robots
"Star Gates"
Force Fields
FTL Communications (although not neccesarily "instantaneous")
Expansion of the Tech levels to above 16 (or "G")
Actually all of the tech stuff that's in Master of Orion 2 would be good.

Yes, I realize that this stuff isn't "canon" but isn't the point of this conversation about thinking "outside the box"?

What would I like to keep?
With the exceptions noted above I'd pretty much agree with Aramis
I'd keep the Education and Social Status Stats, too.

I am thinking about making a rules set similar to True 20 where the 20 sided die is all that's needed.

 

[Supplement Four]

Its interesting watching what Hasbro is doing with the 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons. They are abstracting it entirely and having no default core world. No Forgotten Realms, No Greyhawk, no Eberron.

That sounds like a recipie for failure. They're trying to evolve backwards into GURPS.

Unless...I wonder if they're going to revise the d20 open license to where every other d20 must buy the WotC main book. That way, WotC gets a sale for each and every independent d20 book (provided the player doesn't already have it).

I wonder if they would do that. No more "self-contained" d20 books (just like GURPS--you need the GURPS core rules if you buy any of the GURPS supplements...except here, WotC will own the core book while the other d20 independents will be owned by the licensees).

 

[hunter]

There is no setting in the THB really. All that you ask for is already there.

As for taking technology beyond what it already in the THB, that's SciFi20

 

[aramis]

Actually, Hunter, yes, there IS setting implied by the rules. (One of the big failings, IMO, of Universal Systems is that the designers forget that all rules imply setting.)

Some other examples, that are not, per se, travellerisms:
1) Grizzled old vets have to be killed to be stopped
1a) young kids in combat armor still drop from terror and shock when shot with a Gauss round that does no lifeblood....
1b) Anyone without armor is likely to die if shot twice.
2) Damage is cumulative towards lethality
3) Damage is not imparing until you drop.
4) There are no warrant grades by the American understanding of the term**
5) There are collegiate officer training programs, academies, and mustangs in the officer corps of the army, navy, marines, sailors and flyers
6) psionics are learned slowly, and continued practice opens new fields of psionic power (This is actually counter to CT, MT, and TNE) as well as more ability in known fields.
7) there is no unification of local and interstellar law (since they are different skills)
8) Being a good leader requires being either smart or likeable, but not both, and nobles don't need to be either smart nor likeable to be a good leader.
9) Being able to bluff is based upon likeability, or for nobles, the better of likeability or social rank... so a really charming ditz can bluff better than the gruff genius...
10) Combat Engineers are expected to build traps (since building them and disarming them are under the same skill, p 105)
11) unless you're negotiating cargo lots, haggling results in price variations of no more than ±30%. (p 125) (RW US: Haggling typically results in NO price variation. Mexico: often as much as +100% to -90%... yes, I've negotiated deals in mexico as low as 5% of initial asking price.)
12) Many nobles have trust funds attached to their titles. (p146)
13) Criminal databases are shared between worlds (p149)
14) The Imperium Regulates Weapons ownership, but loosely (through IMoJ) (p151-153)


More Travellerisms implying setting:
(1-6 in prior post)
7) There are ancients, and most people know very little about them. THB004 p 103
8) Commercial vessels require transponders that are always operational. p.124
8a) Transponders sqwauk with flag, port of registry, registration number, registered owner, registered ship tonnage, and classification code. (p124)


There is a lot of setting implied in rules material; I'm not making a thorough run through the THB looking, either...

 

[Laryssa]

Hi,

In some ways you've kind of described the original Traveller. When I first started playing there really wasn't an Official Universe, and I can still recall messing around generating my own subsector. Ultimately, though we didn't end up using the stuff we generated because some of the Official stuff started coming out right about then so me and my friends began using that stuff instead.

Regards

PF

Its possible to have official stuff without generating a whole setting for it. You can have a very detailed account of a single star system and everything that's in it. You could also use general terms such as "Imperium" and "Credit" without getting specific about which Imperium and which credit, just leave it up to the GM to decide upon the details of his interstellar government.

You can however give an official name for the planet, detail the star system, the star type, how many planets there are and what their properties are. You can say who rules the local government, give stats for the local rulers, and detail the local navy and perhaps give very specific details about the local Imperial Naval base, what ships are there and who's in command, but when the question comes about who gives orders to the commander in charge of the Imperial Naval base, you remain very vague, refering to the higher-ups.

The Imperium, could be a constitutional monarchy, and oppressive tyranical Empire with an absolute ruler, or it could be a sort of democracy. It could be a large Imperium taking up many sectors in 2-d or 3-d space or just a single subsector. Because of the nature of Traveller, each system is fairly isolated and interstellar governments come into the picture rarely and do not often involve themselves in local affairs besides collecting a small percentage of local revenue in taxes. Also some systems could be completely independent, the Source material will simply mention whether the system is independent or under a larger interstellar government. The GM decides which government it is, although cannonical material could mention what type of government it is without pinning down the details too securely. I think the largest area covered by cannonical materials would be a subsector and no larger. The largest cannical interstellar government would be no larger than a subsector, and anything larger draws vague references to the Imperium or Interstellar Government without going into detail about it.

 

[Laryssa]

All good ideas Laryssa and Aramis!

Along with saving T20 "as is" I'd like to see the following alternative rules too ad or not add as the referee decides:
Different rules for FTL Travel (albeit I have my own already)
Self Aware A.I.s/Robots
"Star Gates"
Force Fields
FTL Communications (although not neccesarily "instantaneous")
Expansion of the Tech levels to above 16 (or "G")
Actually all of the tech stuff that's in Master of Orion 2 would be good.

Yes, I realize that this stuff isn't "canon" but isn't the point of this conversation about thinking "outside the box"?

What would I like to keep?
With the exceptions noted above I'd pretty much agree with Aramis
I'd keep the Education and Social Status Stats, too.

I am thinking about making a rules set similar to True 20 where the 20 sided die is all that's needed.

Those would be variants. When generating local cannonical materials, the author would mention if a variant FTL drive is in use, if it is not mentions then the default assumption about Jump Drives takes effect.

I've had a few ideas myself in that regard

One possibility is instead of having a Jump Drive per se, you might have a device that is similar to a jump drive, but instead of causing the ship to make a jump, it instead amplifies a person's psionic ability to teleport. Under the old rules, you could teleport too high or too low from the position within the gravity field with which you start. If you changed your altitude too much, your body temperature would drop to dangerous levels if you teleported too high, and you'd get too warm if you teleported too low reflecting the changes in potential energy. A teleport drive would enable a psionic adept with the teleport talent to teleport an entire starship over interstellar distances, but the starship would first have to move a safe distance out of the gravity field of the star. I've calculated this distance to be the distance a starship would travel in a week of accelerating at 1-gee without slowing down. The starship would then teleport to a safe distance from the target star and then spend another week slowing down continuously at 1-gee. If the starship accelerates at 2-gees then it would take only half as long.

The psionic enhancement system need not be too super-sciency, it could simply generate a powerful magnetic field and the psion would simply tap into the energy of that magnetic field to obtain the energy needed to teleport the entire ship and the magnetic field would be reduced upon arrival. The teleport itself is instantaneous just like the ordinary teleport ability mentioned in the rulebook.

Another application of the psionic enhancement system is that a telepath may be able to communicate with another telepath, or with more energy, a non-telepath thereby reducing the magnetic field strength of the starship in the process, this other ability does not require removal to a safe minimal distance from a star and could in fact occur while the starship is on the surface of the planet. This application however would mess up all magnetic compasses within the local area of the starship. The ability of telekinesis would similarly act as a tractor beam when applified by the starship's enhancer. This is an optional piece of technology that the GM may chose to add or not, but it is not part of default assumptions.

 

[Laryssa]

An interesting thing about this idea is that it may already exist in a contemporary setting, such as modern day Earth, and lets say a particle physicist discovers he has the teleport ability and one day while operating a particle accelerator and full power he accidentally teleports the whole facility to some location in near Earth space. All the scientists and researchers are frozen solid including the Teleporter and all are killed, but military officials track the partical accelerator with radar and a sizable chunk of real estate surrounding it is found included with the facility, and it turns out that the entire piece in orbit is about the shape of the magnetic field that was generated.

Now the scientist has a brother who has this same teleport talent, the gene for this psionic ability is isolated and reproduced. Later after some years of research it is now the mid 21st century, there a pool of teleporters who are basically human clones of the scientist's brother and other people who are discovered to have this talent and the first starships are built. At first they have fission drives, and take may months to reach sufficient distance from the sun to reach Alpha Centauri, but they do reach it and many governments are in competition to establish a colony on a habitable planet orbiting Alpha Centauri and other stars, and the talents of these human teleporters are much in demand.

How does that sound as a specific setting?

 

[hunter]

Actually, Hunter, yes, there IS setting implied by the rules. (One of the big failings, IMO, of Universal Systems is that the designers forget that all rules imply setting.)

Any system at all is going to have some assumptions that have to be built into it. What there is of it in the THB is pretty minimal given the scope of what it covers.

 

[aramis]

And T20, if the travellerisms are addressed, is a solid enough system for standing on its own.

And note that they don't have to be eliminated, merely made one of many options, and no longer all of them default standards.

some things to alter:
Star Mapping: go to square grid in 1LY increments, and allow altitude as an option (borrowing from Alternity and Space Opera). A quick integer calculation table
Jump Drives: reduce fuel rates (1xdrive size for max jump), increase drive sizes (Jn^2), eliminate TL10 flat spot and cap on performance of J6. increase exclusion zone size, but base it off gravity ΔV instead of size. Include a nice chart for the math inept. Reduce size for higher TL... say -10% at TL+2, -20% at TL+4....
Weapons: Build-a-spinal instead of the old HG spinals. All weapon types available in all sizes (at high enough TL's). Add Force Fields.
Setting: Include a Landsraad style parliamentary imperium of smaller size in the core...
Ditch the Traveller Races aside from Ursa, Aslan and Vargr; these three are parallel to SO many other games and cheeseball novels that they are (aside from the names) instantly portable. Make the psionic utopians utterly horrific to look at, say, looking like a rotten newt... Bearmen, wolf-men, and samurai-esque lion-people are staples.