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Any "Ref's Reserves" Planned by QLI?

Given that the old Judge's Guild areas are being reworked by QLI, I was wondering if we'll see any "Referee's Preserve" subsectors among the new maps?

Those preserves are a real gift when a referee wants to play within the OTU, but would also like a little corner to customize.

LL
 
Originally posted by Listlurker:
Given that the old Judge's Guild areas are being reworked by QLI, I was wondering if we'll see any "Referee's Preserve" subsectors among the new maps?

Those preserves are a real gift when a referee wants to play within the OTU, but would also like a little corner to customize.

LL
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IIRC the old Zarushagar Sector was one such...but looking at the UWP number generator they used, makes me shudder there could be 43+ systems in a sector X100434-Y. Still its a good suggestion LL. ANybody else?
 
Its good to know that at least 1 sector was up for grabs.

Good question, not really having that flexiblity caused me to build my own universe.

Also, I'm not sure why they'd choose to rewrite the canon maps for JG materials. Seems like its a very big universe over a long period of time!

Savage :eek:
 
Originally posted by savage:
Its good to know that at least 1 sector was up for grabs.

Good question, not really having that flexiblity caused me to build my own universe.

Also, I'm not sure why they'd choose to rewrite the canon maps for JG materials. Seems like its a very big universe over a long period of time!

Savage :eek:
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Now, if I'm remembering rightly (IRR), there were several "game preserves-those not fcovered by CT/ or the DGP era/ MTJ era, as well as the Vargr/Vilani; Aslan/Solomani series of MT sourcebooks. Durned if I remember which others besides ole Zarushagar tho. Ley had been one, then they 'revamped" her for OTU...
I'd like to say also Dagudashaag as well, but I maybe off the reservation there (as a heretic I do that frequently, but generally wander back!) ;)
 
Originally posted by Listlurker:
Given that the old Judge's Guild areas are being reworked by QLI, I was wondering if we'll see any "Referee's Preserve" subsectors among the new maps?

Those preserves are a real gift when a referee wants to play within the OTU, but would also like a little corner to customize.

LL
You'd really need at least a full quadrant (4 subsectors) or a whole sector to do a refs preserve properly. Not that I think its a bad idea, I'd dearly love to see one of the four sectors in Gateway ringfenced, but I don't think its that likely. If you want a refs preserve, try Foreven (next to the Spinward Marches). Marc *has* set that aside as a ref preserve and AFAIK both QLI and SJG are going to respect that.
 
Originally posted by Andrewmv:
You'd really need at least a full quadrant (4 subsectors) or a whole sector to do a refs preserve properly. Not that I think its a bad idea, I'd dearly love to see one of the four sectors in Gateway ringfenced, but I don't think its that likely. If you want a refs preserve, try Foreven (next to the Spinward Marches). Marc *has* set that aside as a ref preserve and AFAIK both QLI and SJG are going to respect that.
Your points about Foreven are well-taken, but I don't know how useful (or obvious) a resource like Foreven sector will be for the d20 players who are encountering Traveller for the first time. For them, the QLI domain book will be their major, practical introduction to the OTU, and they will want to place their adventures somewhere in the area they know.

As Savage mentioned, if the-powers-that-be don't give them a little room to move within the section of the OTU they know best, then they'll just invent their own universe from scratch, and abandon canon sources and supplements for the most part. Less potential sales for future QLI setting stuff, at the very least.

This is a salient point, I think, which many of the angriest grognards on the TML and such places miss -- they bellow "canon uber alles" at every opportunity, but if canon proves incapable of embracing the interest and the creativity of new, enthusiastic Traveller players, then those new players will move on to create their own game universes.

To them, canon will not represent a shared basis of storytelling for referees to draw upon, but a rigid -- and increasingly irrelevant -- specialty knowledge. It will hold limited appeal, or use, for those gamers who discover Traveller now, with this d20 edition.

Even in the days of Classic Traveller, I was forced to take my games "off the map" pretty quickly -- and I was playing a version of the game almost indistinguishable from the OTU.

My reasons for going off the map? Once the whole of Charted Space became so intricately detailed (the Atlas was a very bad idea, I think), this interfered with my ability to tell entertaining stories with a minimum of trouble.

I'm sure you've been there, Andrew: your last adventure left the players on a populous, crime-ridden human capital world. For your next story, you need a winter world populated by high-tech Sword World colonists who are at war with the planet two parsecs over.

Only problem is, the OTU location where you last left off is roughly 3 in-game years at Jump-2 from anything resembling a Sword World colony. Even then, the Sword planet's tech level, population, and atmosphere are all wrong for the story you need to tell, and the only planet 2 parsecs over from it is an Imperial Game Preserve where the highest sentience level belongs to a race of quadrupedal chimp-like grazers.

So, I'm sure you see what I'm saying here. I believe that referee's preserves are good for keeping referees (especially new referees) willingly plugged into the OTU. That can only mean more sales of OTU supplements, because refs are more interested in what's going on in the universe that their personal area is a part of ...

My opinion, anyway,

Thanks for talking everyone,

LL
 
Originally posted by Listlurker:
I don't know how useful (or obvious) a resource like Foreven sector will be for the d20 players who are encountering Traveller for the first time.
Well, the whole point of a GM's preserve like Foreven is that it isn't a resource. For some reason I've never been able to fathom, a lot of people are really hung up on not going against canon and get upset when something is published that 'invalidates' the world or subsector they've spent long hours detailing. I use citation marks because I don't see how an official publication invalidates anything. All you have to do is ignore the new material. To be sure, it's irksome that you can't use the new stuff, but it doesn't invalidate the material you already have. (It's extra irksome if you want to sell the fruits of your labor to an official Traveller publication, but it's often possible to salvage something).

Anyway, I digress. Such places as Foreven is supposed to help out by allowing the GM to mess about in some place where nothing will ever be published to contradict his work. So it's a deliberate non-resource, as it were.

For them, the QLI domain book will be their major, practical introduction to the OTU, and they will want to place their adventures somewhere in the area they know.

And what's to stop them from doing just that? Select a subsector or a quadrant and develop on their own, and just ignore whatever is later published about that area.

As Savage mentioned, if the-powers-that-be don't give them a little room to move within the section of the OTU they know best, then they'll just invent their own universe from scratch...

Or just stake out their own private corner of said section and be able to use everything published except stuff that is set in the chosen corner.

...and abandon canon sources and supplements for the most part. Less potential sales for future QLI setting stuff, at the very least.

Now, for the reason you state,OuickLink may have an interest in setting up such a GM's preserve so they don't miss any potential sales. Of course, IMO there's good a possibility that such publications would be bought and mined for ideas anyway. I certainly bought most of the MT and a fair bit of the TNE material even though my campaign never included the Rebellion, much less the New Era.

This is a salient point, I think, which many of the angriest grognards on the TML and such places miss -- they bellow "canon uber alles" at every opportunity, but if canon proves incapable of embracing the interest and the creativity of new, enthusiastic Traveller players, then those new players will move on to create their own game universes.

To them, canon will not represent a shared basis of storytelling for referees to draw upon, but a rigid -- and increasingly irrelevant -- specialty knowledge.


IMO, the whole point of maintaining a canon universe is to give Traveller authors a rigid[/B] shared basis to draw upon. To me there's no point to an adventure dealing with the squabble over succession between Norris' six children, because in my Traveller Universe Norris doesn't have six children. That doesn't mean I see anything wrong in a GM giving Norris six children in his Traveller Universe. But he doesn't have them in MTU and I'd rather QuickLink and SJG and FarFuture publish adventures that I can use.

...your last adventure left the players on a populous, crime-ridden human capital world. For your next story, you need a winter world populated by high-tech Sword World colonists who are at war with the planet two parsecs over.

Only problem is, the OTU location where you last left off is roughly 3 in-game years at Jump-2 from anything resembling a Sword World colony. Even then, the Sword planet's tech level, population, and atmosphere are all wrong for the story you need to tell, and the only planet 2 parsecs over from it is an Imperial Game Preserve where the highest sentience level belongs to a race of quadrupedal chimp-like grazers.


First of all, there's nothing preventing you from turning that Imperial Game Preserve into a Sword World colony. If your sense of logic prevents you from using an actual Sword World 150 parsecs from the Sword World subsector, you just take the Sword World writeup, file off the names and serial numbers, rename them the Asgardian League or the Spear Worlds (Pilum, Javelin, Assegai, etc ;) ) or the Rainbow Worlds or whatever and you're good to go.

Secondly, the moment you establish anything at all in a GM's preserve, you impose the very same limits on your future story-telling ability. What happens when your Spear World adventure is over and you get an idea for an adventure set on an Imperial Game Preserve where the highest sentience level belongs to a race of quadrupedal chimp-like grazers?

Hans
 
All Trader Jim Wants is a nice little planet to call his own.....so he can brew COFFEE JUICE!!!!
file_22.gif
 
Originally posted by trader jim:
All Trader Jim Wants is a nice little planet to call his own.....so he can brew COFFEE JUICE!!!!
file_22.gif
Sicko
;)

I want a nice subsector or two to build my own private pocket empire. :cool:
 
Originally posted by trader jim:
George----gettin kinda greedy are ya....a whole systrm now ....is it.....
:rolleyes:
No just thinking big and practical!

Need several Agro, Rich and Industrial worlds for a nice economy. Maybe have one unsettled garden world as my private reserve. :D ;)
 
Perhaps the actual problem is the changing, altering universe of the news service reporting royal activities, deaths, and wars.

I setup my universe in the early 80s in classic traveller. Two other friends had universes as well.
No one considered building one in the ever changing
Imperium. This is why I liked the TNE timeline (small manageable pocket empires, no TNS). There are several other alternatives.
1. Pick a year and freeze the Imperium ignoring all TNS postings.
2. Pick a year and sector of the Imperium and freeze it.
3. Ignore specific elements of the TNS (like royal information).
4. Run a game where the players cannot impact the universe around them. They fight for survival and that's about it.

Perhaps it would be better if multiple timeline universes were written with books containing the TNS histories...etc. In this scenario any TNS posting would be nothing more than low level adventure options.

Savage
 
Even in the Banners sector I chose and which I thought was far enough from the "action" to be safe, Gurps Traveller Canon touched (the D20 settings are too far away and the other Traveller incarnations are not interested in this region), in the form of that electric bubble race (I forget the name) from Aliens book 2. Since in my opinion this minor race is unlikely ever to be mentioned again they unexpectedly became extinct in Banners (something in the water no doubt). The point is it really does not matter if your Traveller Universe is canon or not (this is only important if you want your work published by a Traveller company). Its your Universe in your game, as long as you and your players enjoy themselves then that really why you're there.
 
I think it still all boils down to, it's your game, do what you want with it.

My game is set in an alternate Milieu 0 Zarushaagar with a rival Empire rises from the ashes of the Long Night to compete against the Imperium. I designed it all using a map of solely the system locations and ran with it. It has evolved nicely. Do I care that it isn't canon anything else published cannot be used as written? No.

But then again how many people always use everything written as is? Almost everything needs at least a little tweaking to fit your views and campaign, so is it much more to change a bit more like move a world or change it's name or the like?
 
UWP's? I don't really use them. I tend to make things up as I'm going along. Things get logged on my webpage when people discover them (since they are scouts they get told where to go) and I roleplay it all out. The system positions are the same, and a lot of the names are from one I found on-line but the rest I make up.

I am a qualified rocket scientist and know my space theories back to front, but I don't find it fun to bog a game down in numbers when a nice description does far better. It's just not necessary and if the players want information I just tell them. (remind me I need to add more info to my Starmap pages.)
 
Originally posted by BenBell:
UWP's? I don't really use them. I tend to make things up as I'm going along. Things get logged on my webpage when people discover them (since they are scouts they get told where to go) and I roleplay it all out. The system positions are the same, and a lot of the names are from one I found on-line but the rest I make up.
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Which one was this?
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I am a qualified rocket scientist and know my space theories back to front, but I don't find it fun to bog a game down in numbers when a nice description does far better. It's just not necessary and if the players want information I just tell them. (remind me I need to add more info to my Starmap pages.)
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Btw, you need to more info to your Star Map pages..., and the URL to it might be nice too.
Sir.
 
Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BenBell:
UWP's? I don't really use them. I tend to make things up as I'm going along. Things get logged on my webpage when people discover them (since they are scouts they get told where to go) and I roleplay it all out. The system positions are the same, and a lot of the names are from one I found on-line but the rest I make up.
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Which one was this?
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I can't rightly remember. I thin it was the one developed by the guy who did the Trade Routes of the Imperium maps. I'll look it out when I get home.
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I am a qualified rocket scientist and know my space theories back to front, but I don't find it fun to bog a game down in numbers when a nice description does far better. It's just not necessary and if the players want information I just tell them. (remind me I need to add more info to my Starmap pages.)
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Btw, you need to more info to your Star Map pages..., and the URL to it might be nice too.
Sir.
</font>[/QUOTE]Does that mean you've looked at it?

The URL for my Traveller page is

Ben's Traveller Campaign

This is there specifically for my Traveller players since I'm running it online using GRIP and all the info they get gets put up there.
 
Originally posted by BenBell:
Does that mean you've looked at it?

The URL for my Traveller page is

Ben's Traveller Campaign

This is there specifically for my Traveller players since I'm running it online using GRIP and all the info they get gets put up there.
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I am curious, as I am in the midst of getting my "collapsed" version of Zarushagar on DED's web site, UPP data is dated 1117**/ 300-1128*/ 001-1201***.
For those who wish to forego Virus*, but do the Post war Hard Times era...
For those who conclude the war another way/ or ignore it**
For those who want to see what still remains after the collapse/ and 70 year "Short nap***

http://www.panpub.com/traveller/sectors/zarushagar/
Other Sectors have been done by other authors...
Yes, I have looked at it. Very nice Graphic work there. I do not have anything but my hand done sector maps..but as my Pc's aren't there yet..this isn't a problem. (They've lots to do from 1202-1206 anyways)...!
 
Hans,

Thanks for taking the time to reply -- I do appreciate it -- but as the old movie says, "I think what we have here is a failure to communicate".

The intended points of my post were so far removed from how you interpreted them, that it makes me glad I don't write international peace treaties for a living. :)

I know that such "grand misses" in communication happen from time to time on message forums and that it's no big deal. Since you took the time to write such a lengthy response, however, I'll make an effort to clarify, what I was trying to say.

I wasn't upset about canon, or about divergence from canon. All I (thought I) was doing was saying this:

Given that there will be some new fans of Traveller, through d20 Traveller, who will want to work as canonically as possible within the OTU setting QLI will be publishing -- does QLI plan to offer any "referee's preserve" space within that campaign setting to allow such players some creative flexibility within the canon?

I was not saying that the desire for such canon conformity was either good or bad -- only that certain d20 players (familiar with such game settings as Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms) who come onboard Traveller with T20 may desire this.

I was curious as to how much creative leeway they might be afforded officially by QLI. That's all.

I responded to the first comment about Foreven only because I thought the Foreven Sector might not work for new Traveller players coming into the T20 campaign setting.

The Foreven Sector is on the other side of the Imperium from where the official T20 campaign will be situated. Additionally, the article in "Imperiallines #1" where Marc Miller declared Foreven a ref's preserve (while at the same time fixing all the stellar positions of the undetailed worlds, naming the subsectors, and even providing UWPs for 4 or so canonical systems) is very hard to come by in its original form.

My only point here was that Foreven is perhaps not the best candidate for those who want a canonical ref's preserve near QLI's section of Charted Space.

For their specific needs, Foreven's in the wrong place, and it's not a completely blank slate -- if we continue to assume, for the question's sake, that a blank slate within the canonical OTU is what such players will be wanting.

My example of Sword Worlds adventure placement was merely a digression. I was simply trying to illustrate how hard it is for someone who truly wants to stay within published canon to have a free hand creating adventures unless they are given the gift of a referee's preserve.

Myself, I broke with published OTU canon in my first or second adventure as referee. I imagine most referees do, and will continue to do so.

Once again, I was only curious whether any provisions were going to be made for those T20 players new to Traveller who might want to keep very true to the OTU and the QLI published setting, but who might still want somewhere to put their own personal stamp on the game universe.

Yes, it's a very hypothetical question, about a very specific type of T20 player (basically, a "D&D emigre" type, new to Traveller), but I've seen the type of setting-canonicity-loyalty that the Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms settings create in certain D&D gamers. I was only idly curious about what kinds of provisions QLI might be making (if any) for that particular breed of setting-focused gamer in T20.

That's all from me on this topic,

LL, not a treaty-writer
 
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