Are you satisfied with the way systems are generated?

[Keklas Rekobah]

The only Traveller system I know about for generating star systems comes from LBB6: Scouts. It is based on Bode's Law, which has been thoroughly debunked. I'm considering the idea of sending my own "more realistic" system to some reputable publisher, but first I want to find out if there is any player interest. Your opinions are appreciated. Thank you.

 

[aramis]

The only Traveller system I know about for generating star systems comes from LBB6: Scouts. It is based on Bode's Law, which has been thoroughly debunked. I'm considering the idea of sending my own "more realistic" system to some reputable publisher, but first I want to find out if there is any player interest. Your opinions are appreciated. Thank you.

Given that no scientific model generates the real world variety we can observe, you system would be no better than a shot in the dark.

While the TBR has been debunked, it's useful as a game artifact.

Also, T5, while derived from B6, isn't Bk6 ... it has support for many other items which are known to exist now that weren't even thought of in the 70's...

Essentially, I see T5 System gen as "Good enough" and any attempts to fix it as being likely to be even more screwed up than it is.

What's the most realistic? MGT 1E's extended. It doesn't define the distances involved at all, and thus avoids errors by being too vague to be useful...

 

[mike wightman]

I've never been a great fan of LBB:6 system generation.
I generate extended systems in one of two ways.

1. Roll more planets using LBB:3 and put them where I want in the system - moons of gas giants, goldilocks zone etc.

2. Use GURPS Space 4th edition and convert to Traveller.

 

[Ulsyus]

Doesn't it come down to the level of fidelity that each ref is looking for?

If you want a world that's pretty detailed in gaming terms, use the old DGP World Builder's Handbook.

If you want something that allows you to list a sector on a few pages just use the original LBB.

We can use the mechanics that suit what we want, but shouldn't that be driven by what it is we want from the outcome of those mechanics?

PS: Sorry if that sounded like a line out of "The Mystery Men"

PPS: That's 1k!

 

[vegas]

2. Use GURPS Space 4th edition and convert to Traveller.

Mike, I've seen you mention that a few times around this forum (and maybe some others). Can you expound on why it is better than the many traveler versions of the same? I have only known LBB3 and 6 previously, but now I have several other versions and I don't really know all the differences.

 

[Tobias]

Overall, I am fine with Book 6 based system generation. It strikes a balance between realism and simplicity, which is fine by me.
However, I would definitely buy an alternative rule set for world and system generation if it is reasonably priced. And I would use it for my refereeing needs if it satisfies three conditions:
a.) Its increased realism does not get in the way of simplicity and playability
b.) It is compatible with previous iterations of Traveller as well as with my own tweaks (e.g. IMTU world size digit = world radius in 1000 km).
c.) And this is the biggie: There is software support for it. Various programs exist that can churn out systems by the sector load for Book 6 based rule sets. Being able to use Heaven & Earth is the main reason I still rely on the rules from WBH (or GS/GC) to flesh out worlds.

 

[mike wightman]

GURPS 4th ed Space goes into great detail for mainworld design, system design, cultures and alien races.
It does this is a very user friendly way, everything is explained well, and as a referee you can go into as much or as little detail as you need.

 

[whartung]

The only Traveller system I know about for generating star systems comes from LBB6: Scouts. It is based on Bode's Law, which has been thoroughly debunked.

But Bodes Law generates systems that look like our system, which is "realistic" enough as anything.

If our system is, in fact, the rare exception (I don't actually know), then everything is unfamiliar and, even worse, everything is uninhabited. Which makes for uninteresting adventure.

"I joined Traveller so I could travel by starship to far off exotic shirt sleeve worlds, encounter diverse cultures, and rob and kill them."

 

[McPerth]

As I have some times said, I prefer the 2300AD system. It's the only one I know about (or at least that I remember) that thoes not use the Bode law.

OTOH, it takes a while to define a single planet, not to say a full system, and it does not enter on population nor social matters, as inhabitated worlds are few and udually defined, not random generated (in this sense is quite setting specific).

 

[Timerover51]

Basically, I create a system based on what I want to have there. I generally go with at least one gas giant in addition to whatever the main world is. There has to be some reason why people would want to be there. That pretty much dictates what the system may have.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I like more detail. Since LBB2 and LBB6 other systems for generating worlds have come out and each has pieces I really, really like.

MgT 1e had the Typical Contraband column on the Government chart. When used in conjunction with the Law Level chart, worlds became much more interesting, because more than just weapons were prohibited.

DGP World Builders Handbook had all that neat detailing on climate, cities,governments, the religious profile and the tech profile.

In the meantime, please cut Bode's Law. Rip that bandage off.

 

[LiNeNoiSe]

In the meantime, please cut Bode's Law. Rip that bandage off.

I suppose it's an easy way to simulate "harmonic resonance."

GURPS Space is probably a good compromise.

 

[Ulsyus]

GURPS 4th ed Space goes into great detail for mainworld design, system design, cultures and alien races.
It does this is a very user friendly way, everything is explained well, and as a referee you can go into as much or as little detail as you need.

Does it provide more detail and in a more straightforward way than can be found in The World Builder's Handbook?

 

[mike wightman]

I think so.

Take a look at the table of contents and index:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Space/toc.pdf

 

[Blue Ghost]

A minor beef (as I try to get myself back in a writing mood) is that the basic rules were good at generating various Earths (habitable and non) and moon like worlds, but you couldn't generate a Pluto, Mars, Mega-Earth.

Then again no adventure ever took you to those worlds, so it became like starport "bar" floor plans; interesting to set out for the players but not really necessary as most adventures took place in habitable places "near Earth" like conditions. So it's a non-issue in that regard.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

So the general consensus seems to be along the lines of "LBB6 may not be the best possible system, but it's good enough; and if you have something that works for you, use it."

 

[aramis]

So the general consensus seems to be along the lines of "LBB6 may not be the best possible system, but it's good enough; and if you have something that works for you, use it."

You're misreading the stats.

The median is undecided.
The mode is Acceptable.
The mean (using each step as a 1 point progression along an axis) is 2.9 of 5... central into the acceptable range, assuming No Way is 1 and Absolutely is 5, and each is ±0.5.
Using the same mathematical basis, Standard deviation is about 1.06.

The "Concensus" is that it's meh... as 2 of three of the central tendency measures show it in meh (Mode and Mean), tho' plotting the histogram (done by the machine for us) shows that it's a long left tail.

Now, if one wanted to wieght it differently, say, -3,-1,0,+1,+3 (which I could argue is more realistic), it gives a wider StdDev (1.29), but still remains in the meh range.

Oh, and due dilligence, the data at present: A 0,G 7, M 5, ug 4, NW 2

 

[Timerover51]

So the general consensus seems to be along the lines of "LBB6 may not be the best possible system, but it's good enough; and if you have something that works for you, use it."

I should expand on what I said earlier a bit more. For habitability, I generally will use Stephen Dole's Habitable Planets for Man, not so much for system design, but for determining what is needed for a habitable planet, including ones that may have been played with a bit by either the Ancients, or for my Out Rim Sector, the Krell, the Bald Space Rovers, or another earlier space-faring civilization, harking back to works by Andre Norton. I am not a fan of designing a full system mainly because I view that as too fine a detail, unless your players are set on working in a single system.

If I need tides, which normally I do, then the planet has a moon large enough to cause tides. I understand that the Sun causes tides as well, but the combination of a Sun and a substantial moon makes for more difference. I have seen the tidal range in the Cook Inlet, which is one of the larger ranges in the world, and also some of the tidal ranges in England.

I do allow for what are called "Eye Ball" worlds, where you have a habitable belt at the North-South equator, when a planet is tidally locked to a star in the right zone for life, as Mercury is supposed to be in Space: 1889. Then, there is also a possibility of something like Mesklin, in Hal Clement's Mission of Gravity. where you might have the ability to land at the planet equator, but because of a steep gravity gradient, you are limited as to how far you can go north or south. I do not think that it is possible to generate something like that using Book 6.

 

[Vargas]

LBB6 is good enough for what I need almost all of the time. If I wanted something "realistic" I'd drag out my PDF of GURPS Space which is as good as anything along those lines.

 

[robject]

I think there are interesting ways to generate interesting star systems.

I also think it doesn't really matter.