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ATVs As Lifeboats

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Patron Zero

SOC-13
Hopefully placing this in the correct as uncertain elsewhere it should be.


I've been doing some reviewing of canon CT materials concerning ATVs, one brief article in particular from a JTAS making reference to said vehicle as being fully pressurized and having an airlock section mid-body.

I take such to infer an ATV to be vacuum-worthy for all practical purposes, whether that also implies survivability in other variable pressurized environments, gas giants or underwater not applicable here but open-ended all the same


Going under the assumption an ATV is 'spaceworthy', could such be equipped with some fashion of RCS and 'localized' drive to allow the vehicle to become a last-ditch/improvised lifeboat ?

Not to suggest an ATV could withstand the rigors of atmospheric re-entry but more wondering if receiving reasonable modifications-upgrades the vehicle might offer a crew in distress some hope where an otherwise bleak abandon ship situation might mean certain death.
 
Yes, the ATV is fully sealed so could act as a lifeboat. But remember several of the entry ways are just single hatches not airlocks, you have no sensors except the headlights. I imagine a standard ATV would have a reasonable radio 500km+, but not much else as standard.

It has extended lifesupport and probably carries some emergency rations dictated by an Imperial regulation.
 
I believe that in cannon, grav ATVs and air rafts can reach orbital hight. so I would assume that at least those are space worth.

Being pressurived does not nessesarily mean it is vacuum rated, and if it is it does not mean that it is space worthy.

Presurized could mean protection from low preasure atmosperes or toxic environments or from chemical biological attack. Aside from a hard vacuum there are other dangers in space, extreme heat and cold, and radiation come to mind.

I would say a typical ATV would need some upgrades to act as a space worthy lifeboat. CO2 scrubbers, sanitary facilities, insulation would be needed for long term survival. In a pinch an unmodified ATV could work, but I would say for only a very short time.

R
 
Patron Zero said:
I've been doing some reviewing of canon CT materials concerning ATVs, one brief article in particular from a JTAS making reference to said vehicle as being fully pressurized and having an airlock section mid-body.

[...]

Going under the assumption an ATV is 'spaceworthy', could such be equipped with some fashion of RCS and 'localized' drive to allow the vehicle to become a last-ditch/improvised lifeboat ?

Not to suggest an ATV could withstand the rigors of atmospheric re-entry but more wondering if receiving reasonable modifications-upgrades the vehicle might offer a crew in distress some hope where an otherwise bleak abandon ship situation might mean certain death.
Click to expand...

The ATV you mention is sealed, pressurized, and has an actual airlock -- looks like it's built for travelling on the surface of vacuum planets, so it's radiation shielded as well, and I presume it can also withstand micrometeors.

So, in a word - yes, it would make a good last-ditch lifeboat.

Note that there are other, less well-protected ATVs, out there. Caveat emptor. Make sure you have the right model.

Life support would be measured in days -- I'd say one week, and that includes everything needed to support the drivers and passengers.

Along those lines, I would recommend installing a grav plate into the frame of the ATV (Cr100,000). That would give it microthrust for station-keeping capability in orbit or v e r y v e r y l o w acceleration. And finally, if there's a ton of spare space to be had, I would strongly suggest an Emergency Low Berth (MCr1), which can hold four persons for extended periods of time (negotiable, but in general perhaps a bit longer than a year).
 
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Thanks everyone for the feedback, this concept has been mulled over in my head for sometime and might see submission to one of the online Traveller periodicals if interest warrants.
 
"You arrive at the derelict spacecraft in high orbit, and notice what appears to be an 8 wheeled truck with a light on floating nearby..."
 
G-carrier rather than ATV. See book 3, pages 20-23.


Make it a 10ton version (instead of the BTB 8t) and it is the same size as the ATV.

This makes a much better life-boat, as it already has space-capable drive installed.
 
BlackBat242 said:
G-carrier... as it already has space-capable drive installed.
Click to expand...

imo no, not really. By the rules an orbital (very low imo) capable drive at best. Not something that would provide any thrust beyond low orbit. And imo not something capable of deorbiting either by a strict read of the statement ("achieve orbit" - nothing about coming down from orbit).

ATV as a lifeboat, sure, in desperate circumstances. As a space craft, no.

As in it will keep you alive, barely, in deep space, for a while (as long as the power lasts imo) yes. As in it will get you out of being stranded in deep space by getting you to a nearby world and safely down, no. Not even the G-carrier of Air/Raft will do that imo...

...but in the interest of the game and player's characters, if through no fault of their own, I might allow an insane, Heavy Metal (the movie) Radar Rider (the song and chapter) ride down to a Soft Landing (ala the Corvette in the movie). Well, not so soft, more hard, more crash, as any crash you can limp away from is a landing :)
 
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There are multiple instances of grav vehicles reaching and returning from orbit and even short planetary hops in most versions of Traveller. The main problem is that it is so slow 1hr per size rating of the world.

I remember rules for low tech ships with anti-grav drives. They are find at about 10D from a mass, passable at 100D and cripplingly slow outside that. So your G-Carrier could move in space but if you are in the outer system or away from a planet, it might be quicker to get out and walk:)
 
IIRC the Kinunir it says pg 29:

The grav armored personel carrier is capable of atmospheric
flight, and limited orbital flight. It is pressure-tight...

IMO, it's harder to get into orbit than to land and most worlds being less than earth size, it would be even easier.
 
Rather than floating around in an Interstellar Range Rover, I'd suggest it would be easier to stay on board the ship and hunker down in the ATV on board if necessary. The ship, even as an inert piece of junk, has a bigger signal than an ATV and if you can send a distress signal, even better. If there's an alien eating people's faces off, just don't open the door. Concerning the ship's reactor core melting down, that's another topic that I shall start immediately.
 
far-trader said:
really strange view of how tech works.
Click to expand...

If it is capable of getting the craft into orbit via grav drive, why in hades would it NOT be capable of the return voyage... if refueled first?

They aren't like current spaceships, where parts of the ship are discarded to enable reaching orbit. the same grav drive that lifted the air/raft or G-carrier.



But since you based your view on a really over-narrow linguistic twisting, I suppose trying to change your mind would be futile.

After all, by your so-called "logic", since the description of the air/raft only says it can reach speeds of 120 kph, and makes no mention of being equipped to slow down, then it is incapable of slowing down, either.
 
shield said:
There are multiple instances of grav vehicles reaching and returning from orbit and even short planetary hops in most versions of Traveller. The main problem is that it is so slow 1hr per size rating of the world.

I remember rules for low tech ships with anti-grav drives. They are fine at about 10D from a mass, passable at 100D and cripplingly slow outside that. So your G-Carrier could move in space but if you are in the outer system or away from a planet, it might be quicker to get out and walk:)
Click to expand...

This is the way T5 interprets non-maneuver gravitics, as well.

That said, it may be possible, I suppose, to install a maneuver drive in a GCarrier... although I suppose that crosses the threshold into a small but fully-fledged smallcraft.
 
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robject said:
This is the way T5 interprets non-maneuver gravitics, as well.

That said, it may be possible, I suppose, to install a maneuver drive in a GCarrier... although I suppose that crosses the threshold into a small but fully-fledged smallcraft.
Click to expand...

or just use an armored ship's boat, (gunboat?) but this wrecks the cool g-carrier trope.
 
Does this thread remind anyone else of the Eagle 5 (see http://stars.ign.com/articles/846/846996p1.html) :D

Slightly off topic, but there are a lot of humorous sounding lines in this thread!
"You arrive at the derelict spacecraft in high orbit, and notice what appears to be an 8 wheeled truck with a light on floating nearby..." -whartung

…it might be quicker to get out and walk -shield

Rather than floating around in an Interstellar Range Rover… -kilmore

…it may be possible, I suppose, to install a maneuver drive in a GCarrier -robject

…any crash you can limp away from is a landing -far-trader
​
 
My 2Cr is that yes, any sealed environment will provide some life-preserving shelter.
However, as others have noted:
An ATV designed exclusively for atmospheric use will be very poorly equipped for space survival. One that is designed for vacuum worlds could act as an immobile shelter for a few days - preferably still aboard ship.

ATVs do not generally have grav drives fitted and would be unable to move in space. Sealed grav vehicles such as the G-carrier and Air-raft can move to and from orbit, but the drives are effectively useless outside of the (LBB2) gravity well. (I multiply the thrust by the local G field).

Once you are beyond the gravity well, you would either need to have an M-drive fitted or you would need some considerable PC ingenuity to devise a way of getting the vehicle to the orbital zone of a habitable planet...
 
Icosahedron said:
...you would need some considerable PC ingenuity to devise a way of getting the vehicle to the orbital zone of a habitable planet...
Click to expand...
Aboard the g-carrier formerly of the INS Fitting Example (retired).
"Great Bob! I told you your idea wouldn't work. We shouldn't have cannibalized the Life Support System you imbecile! Now we've got, what? Two hours of air, at best!?"

"Now. Are you ready to at least try my spitball idea..."​
 
BytePro said:
Aboard the g-carrier formerly of the INS Fitting Example (retired).
"Great Bob! I told you your idea wouldn't work. We shouldn't have cannibalized the Life Support System you imbecile! Now we've got, what? Two hours of air, at best!?"

"Now. Are you ready to at least try my spitball idea..."​
Click to expand...

or it could be: "alright, we have four guys in vacc suits with attitude/propulsion thrusters get out and PUSH!"

:rofl:
 
One problem with this I could see is that such a vehicle would not be highly radiation resistant. This could be a serious issue depending on the levels in local space.
 
Enoki said:
One problem with this I could see is that such a vehicle would not be highly radiation resistant. This could be a serious issue depending on the levels in local space.
Click to expand...

IMO the "standard" Imperial patter ATV would be vacuum rated. Since there are no provisions for outfitting them for specific environments, there's no "vacuum ATV", "underwater ATV", "insidious atmosphere ATV" etc, then the basic ATV must have reasonable capability in all these standard environments.

Locally produced versions may be planet-specific... but might also cost less.
 
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