Okay, this might be a stupid idea, but would a "bait starship" work on hijackers, or are they too sophisticated for something that obvious?
Bait Starship
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
Ackehece
SOC-13
I would suspect that it would work. I think that it is situation specific and hijacker group specific.
The problem with bait ships is the same with bait cars... knowing what the hijackers want to hijack in advance. If you know that, then it is vary likely you could catch em. If not... random chance.
We all tend think of traveller piracy as a space thing. I suspect that the bulk of hijacking and or piracy is is starport thing... not likely at A or B ports but smaller ports with less services and less potential guards.
A good bait ship would be at a C class or lower starport that seems to load a highly valuable cargo with minimal security (preferably on a planet that several ships have gone missing after leaving before.
Bait ship:
valuable cargo or expensive ship in high demand
Must have a secondary anti hijack computer
A cut off for jump and m-drive
A mean to incapacitate the crew of hijackers. Grav-plate ping-pong comes to mind, or tranq gas, or a squad of hidden marines in BD.
The problem with bait ships is the same with bait cars... knowing what the hijackers want to hijack in advance. If you know that, then it is vary likely you could catch em. If not... random chance.
We all tend think of traveller piracy as a space thing. I suspect that the bulk of hijacking and or piracy is is starport thing... not likely at A or B ports but smaller ports with less services and less potential guards.
A good bait ship would be at a C class or lower starport that seems to load a highly valuable cargo with minimal security (preferably on a planet that several ships have gone missing after leaving before.
Bait ship:
valuable cargo or expensive ship in high demand
Must have a secondary anti hijack computer
A cut off for jump and m-drive
A mean to incapacitate the crew of hijackers. Grav-plate ping-pong comes to mind, or tranq gas, or a squad of hidden marines in BD.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
This is akin to a Q-ship in WW 1 or 2. It might work the first couple of times but after that it's more likely to end up being a case of pirates / hijackers / whatever shooting first and asking questions never.
If anything, given the nature of the universe Traveller operates in I'd say that this would be worse than not using them, particularly if their use was reasonably common.
You might get away with it occasionally if the users could keep that quiet or it was so infrequent that would be pirates didn't really consider it as a threat.
The second they think a bait ship is something to be expected this turns into blast first make demands second.
If anything, given the nature of the universe Traveller operates in I'd say that this would be worse than not using them, particularly if their use was reasonably common.
You might get away with it occasionally if the users could keep that quiet or it was so infrequent that would be pirates didn't really consider it as a threat.
The second they think a bait ship is something to be expected this turns into blast first make demands second.
You know, I never thought of that. But that makes total sense. Situate said vessel in a "bad part of town" so to speak, on a C or D port, leave the ramps open, show a skeleton crew, then maybe stage something to show to everyone that the crew has left for some time.
Maybe if it's done over several days it'll attract a pirate crew or a rogue loner or something.
But yeah, I think you're right here.
Maybe if it's done over several days it'll attract a pirate crew or a rogue loner or something.
But yeah, I think you're right here.
So maybe it's used sparringly in some situations, or once or twice to catch a rogue crew or crack open a pirate ring, but then you retire the concept until the next crime wave comes around.
Watching the bait car vids on YouTube once gets a sense that car thieves typically aren't the brightest individuals, which may add a layer of complexity for a bait ship, because in order to pilot you need a degree of technical savvy and general good judgment.
But I think Ackehece's idea is very viable.
Watching the bait car vids on YouTube once gets a sense that car thieves typically aren't the brightest individuals, which may add a layer of complexity for a bait ship, because in order to pilot you need a degree of technical savvy and general good judgment.
But I think Ackehece's idea is very viable.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
The organization most likely to set up a bait ship is an insurance company or consortium of insurance companies if they have been hit with several high payoff losses from the same area or space port. The other group most likely to use a bait ship is the local subsector duke/duchess, if his/her revenues are being effected. In both cases, a bait ship would likely have a several layers of anti-hijacking defenses in place.
You also might want to look at When Eight Bells Toll by Alistair Maclean for some ideas as well.
Edit Note: I understand that current Traveller ship economics does not include loss insurance, but I have put in it my Heretical Traveller Universe, with the rate dependent as to how well maintained the ship is. I have also increased the maintenance costs into something a bit more reasonable than 0.1% of the base ship cost.
You also might want to look at When Eight Bells Toll by Alistair Maclean for some ideas as well.
Edit Note: I understand that current Traveller ship economics does not include loss insurance, but I have put in it my Heretical Traveller Universe, with the rate dependent as to how well maintained the ship is. I have also increased the maintenance costs into something a bit more reasonable than 0.1% of the base ship cost.
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Interesting ideas. The insurance angle is interesting. It also leaves open possible insurance fraud scenarios (hopefully your players are more scrupulous, but, if they're not ...) where the players have to investigate a case of insurance fraud, or several related such cases, and find a pirate ring running the scam.
Would corporations or insurance firms cooperate with the local navy? Maybe, maybe not. More like they hire your players to execute the plan.
I'm thinking unless it involves Vargr corsairs or Soli or Swordy pirates, the Imperial navy doesn't get involved and leaves it to the local navy to tackle.
Interesting ideas.
Would corporations or insurance firms cooperate with the local navy? Maybe, maybe not. More like they hire your players to execute the plan.
I'm thinking unless it involves Vargr corsairs or Soli or Swordy pirates, the Imperial navy doesn't get involved and leaves it to the local navy to tackle.
Interesting ideas.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
There's probably a list of every starship in the sector, or several, compiled and perhaps shared various groups and organizations, the criminals for easy marks, and intelligence services.
Ackehece
SOC-13
Ah the who is who ship transponder list thing
this is well covered in TNE. Yes ships have transponders that ID who they are. Ships of a general class all look very similar so they tend to ID themselves with Transponders (no sound signatures in space(which subs use to ID individual ships), thermal is only good to identify class, as are other methods)If the supposedly "unalterable"* transponder is messed with it is hard to properly ID a ship. What groups would mess with this? State actors :ssb:, organisations both shadowy and light :CoW:. Criminals with intent :devil:....
*like state actors or colossal organisations could not!
Which leaves the question open of just how "unalterable" is the transponder? If you do T5 skill levels, then someone with electronics 4 or 5, or even possibly computer 4 or 5, could hack the thing. Which leaves another question about criminals; rules wise, what skill level divides the law abiding citizen from the potential criminal?
Back to bait starships; I think they're a good idea as per Ackehece's original response.
Back to bait starships; I think they're a good idea as per Ackehece's original response.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I have pirate clans that are the equal of some small nations IMTU.
Think Exosquad pirates that moved on once jump drive was invented.
They play for high stakes, and so every operation is not just a cash grab- it's usually material and tech they cannot produce on their own, occasionally key people.
They operate an unparalleled intel and bribery operation.
That would be the hallmark of professional pirates, not an opportunistic smash and grab or swashbuckling raiding, but knowing precisely what they are going after when, line up the conditions, decoy or bribe LE/Nav, and in general have done a lot of human spywork before a single thruster is lit.
As such, bait ships are going to be tough to foist on them, they are likely to know about it and you'll only catch the 'B' team small fry that are the more opportunistic types.
And yes of course there would be a huge backend business with disposal of ships and goods, they would at times be a threat to doublecross pirates, but in general they are co-conspirators and would be part of the economy and enablers of piracy.
Consider the element of classic Caribbean piracy where they sold the goods to American colonies, particularly the Carolinas, where the local leadership would not only buy the items at low rates and profit but actually fete the pirates.
Local poor, low pop/tech colonies might be very interested in getting products they would never afford otherwise, view pirates more as Robin Hood figures helping against The Man, and be enthusiastic about providing support as long as the pirates don't hurt their trade directly.
A related area at least to me is the Oort cloud, a goto place for stashing ships, goods, bases, refueling and escape.
Time consuming refueling is less of an issue when you are on the lam and not able to stay ahead of the authorities' couriers, and the cloud would be a community of desperate strange people doing strange illegal things out there that might provide fuel and illicitly produced items, be just as desperate for key industrial items, and luxuries as well.
No way to patrol it, the planetary/interstellar polity would have to operate intel out there to even have a chance to engage pirates or illegal operations.
One of my intended subplots is that someone out in the Oort is producing APHE/exploding rifle bullets, outlawed on Earth since the 1870s, now being made and sold out there in the criminal community. I expect to either suck them into trying and stopping the trade, or that they will seek to get a supply for themselves.
Think Exosquad pirates that moved on once jump drive was invented.
They play for high stakes, and so every operation is not just a cash grab- it's usually material and tech they cannot produce on their own, occasionally key people.
They operate an unparalleled intel and bribery operation.
That would be the hallmark of professional pirates, not an opportunistic smash and grab or swashbuckling raiding, but knowing precisely what they are going after when, line up the conditions, decoy or bribe LE/Nav, and in general have done a lot of human spywork before a single thruster is lit.
As such, bait ships are going to be tough to foist on them, they are likely to know about it and you'll only catch the 'B' team small fry that are the more opportunistic types.
And yes of course there would be a huge backend business with disposal of ships and goods, they would at times be a threat to doublecross pirates, but in general they are co-conspirators and would be part of the economy and enablers of piracy.
Consider the element of classic Caribbean piracy where they sold the goods to American colonies, particularly the Carolinas, where the local leadership would not only buy the items at low rates and profit but actually fete the pirates.
Local poor, low pop/tech colonies might be very interested in getting products they would never afford otherwise, view pirates more as Robin Hood figures helping against The Man, and be enthusiastic about providing support as long as the pirates don't hurt their trade directly.
A related area at least to me is the Oort cloud, a goto place for stashing ships, goods, bases, refueling and escape.
Time consuming refueling is less of an issue when you are on the lam and not able to stay ahead of the authorities' couriers, and the cloud would be a community of desperate strange people doing strange illegal things out there that might provide fuel and illicitly produced items, be just as desperate for key industrial items, and luxuries as well.
No way to patrol it, the planetary/interstellar polity would have to operate intel out there to even have a chance to engage pirates or illegal operations.
One of my intended subplots is that someone out in the Oort is producing APHE/exploding rifle bullets, outlawed on Earth since the 1870s, now being made and sold out there in the criminal community. I expect to either suck them into trying and stopping the trade, or that they will seek to get a supply for themselves.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Well I expect it's like what is the difference between a criminal with Gun-5 and a soldier sniper with Gun-5.
It's what you do with the skill that defines.
Hacking a transponder isn't the only way ... you can simply change it out for another, or for a transponder-like device that allows you to change the signal at will (difficult to track down on the open market, though). You could equip a ship with multiple transponders, and turn all but one of them off at any given time.
So the requisite skills are those that could be found at any starport capable of minor repairs to starships. These skills ought to be fairly widespread. I don't think it's electronics-5 unless you need to build a transponder, or hack one.
Now, IMTU, tampering with a transponder is an offence under the Imperial Navigation Act, and the courts have held that tampering is prima facie evidence of piracy, so it comes with the death penalty ... like just about everything else under Imperial law....
So the requisite skills are those that could be found at any starport capable of minor repairs to starships. These skills ought to be fairly widespread. I don't think it's electronics-5 unless you need to build a transponder, or hack one.
Now, IMTU, tampering with a transponder is an offence under the Imperial Navigation Act, and the courts have held that tampering is prima facie evidence of piracy, so it comes with the death penalty ... like just about everything else under Imperial law....
not if piracy is an insider operation. but for opportunist pirates, or involving covert warfare between corporations or nobles, sure. here is the agzlu q ship, being an official anti-pirate ship it will have all necessary official support such as codes, transponders, and route scheduling necessary to lure in targeted operations.
Ackehece
SOC-13
pretty sure that is an imperial regulation in OTU
but yes multiple transponders... stolen from wrecked, recycled or pirated ships
etc...
So perhaps bait-starships usually only work on second tier opportunists, but I could see a properly staged one nabbing some top tiered criminals who think they've scoped out a ship enough to try and nab it.
To nab a ship you've got to either make sure its empty or overpower the crew. Think of the hijacking attempts your players had to fend off, or think of the hijacking attempts your less ethical players (or players on a mission) tried.
How many of them checked to make sure the ship wasn't rigged or booby trapped? Maybe a few cursory checks, probably hacking the computer, but otherwise it's fire up the engines and blow the pattern as you race for orbit.
To nab a ship you've got to either make sure its empty or overpower the crew. Think of the hijacking attempts your players had to fend off, or think of the hijacking attempts your less ethical players (or players on a mission) tried.
How many of them checked to make sure the ship wasn't rigged or booby trapped? Maybe a few cursory checks, probably hacking the computer, but otherwise it's fire up the engines and blow the pattern as you race for orbit.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Are they re-cycled for transplant organs following the execution of sentence?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
The transponder could be set up to fry certain vital ship systems if interfered with.
probably the only serious way to do it. make them think they've scoped it out.
say a noble owns a mining operation on a remote moon, and he wants to embarrass a competing noble in the same system. he puts out a low-key behind-the-scenes-only rumor that the mining operation has a number of mechanical failures and that a special supply ship is going out with the only hard-to-find parts in-system that they need ....
