Book 1 and Book 4 CG question.

[Ranger]

I've been going over the CG process and trying to get the basic and advanced systems in agreement so to speak. One inconsistancy that seems to really jump out is how easy it is to get a commision in the Army in Book 1 as opposed to how hard it is in Book 4. In Book 1, you need a 5+, in Book 4, you need to roll 11 or 12 for assignment, then roll 6+ to get OCS. If you allow the pre-enlistment options from Book 5, you need a 9+ just to get into college. I checked the MT players manual as well, and the discrepancy exists there too.

I was thinking of just pushing the position roll for the Army to 9+ in the Basic CG system, but that is based on integrating the various advanced school options into CG as well (basically, giving players the chance to get commando, intel, or OCS in the basic system).

Any thoughts from the assembled?

Rob

 

[Ranger]

I've been going over the CG process and trying to get the basic and advanced systems in agreement so to speak. One inconsistancy that seems to really jump out is how easy it is to get a commision in the Army in Book 1 as opposed to how hard it is in Book 4. In Book 1, you need a 5+, in Book 4, you need to roll 11 or 12 for assignment, then roll 6+ to get OCS. If you allow the pre-enlistment options from Book 5, you need a 9+ just to get into college. I checked the MT players manual as well, and the discrepancy exists there too.

I was thinking of just pushing the position roll for the Army to 9+ in the Basic CG system, but that is based on integrating the various advanced school options into CG as well (basically, giving players the chance to get commando, intel, or OCS in the basic system).

Any thoughts from the assembled?

Rob

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Ranger,

Remember, Book 1 is designed as the basic rules for getting Player Characters up and running as quickly as possible. Book 4 is designed to generate advanced and better defined characters in both enlisted and officer ranks. Further, this is a resource for a GM to generate those interesting NPCs.

As the GM in YTU, you can make almost any rule modification you want. This is what, in my opinion, has kept Traveller around for 25-years.
You want to change the rule and the players agree, then use that as your house rules.

Originally posted by Ranger:
I've been going over the CG process and trying to get the basic and advanced systems in agreement so to speak. One incinsistancy that seems to really jump out is how easy it is to get a commision in the Army in Book 1 as opposed to how hard it is in Book 4. In Book 1, you need a 5+, in Book 4, you need to roll 11 or 12 for assignment, then roll 6+ to get OCS. If you allow the pre-enlistment options from Book 5, you need a 9+ just to get into college. I checked the MT players manual as well, and the discrepancy exists there too.

I was thinking of just pushing the position roll for the Army to 9+ in the Basic CG system, but that is based on integrating the various advanced school options into CG as well (basically, giving players the chance to get commando, intel, or OCS in the basic system).

Any thoughts from the assembled?

Rob

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Ranger,

Remember, Book 1 is designed as the basic rules for getting Player Characters up and running as quickly as possible. Book 4 is designed to generate advanced and better defined characters in both enlisted and officer ranks. Further, this is a resource for a GM to generate those interesting NPCs.

As the GM in YTU, you can make almost any rule modification you want. This is what, in my opinion, has kept Traveller around for 25-years.
You want to change the rule and the players agree, then use that as your house rules.

Originally posted by Ranger:
I've been going over the CG process and trying to get the basic and advanced systems in agreement so to speak. One incinsistancy that seems to really jump out is how easy it is to get a commision in the Army in Book 1 as opposed to how hard it is in Book 4. In Book 1, you need a 5+, in Book 4, you need to roll 11 or 12 for assignment, then roll 6+ to get OCS. If you allow the pre-enlistment options from Book 5, you need a 9+ just to get into college. I checked the MT players manual as well, and the discrepancy exists there too.

I was thinking of just pushing the position roll for the Army to 9+ in the Basic CG system, but that is based on integrating the various advanced school options into CG as well (basically, giving players the chance to get commando, intel, or OCS in the basic system).

Any thoughts from the assembled?

Rob

 

[Uncle Bob]

Originally posted by Ranger:
I've been going over the CG process and trying to get the basic and advanced systems in agreement so to speak. One inconsistancy that seems to really jump out is how easy it is to get a commision in the Army in Book 1 as opposed to how hard it is in Book 4. In Book 1, you need a 5+, in Book 4, you need to roll 11 or 12 for assignment, then roll 6+ to get OCS. If you allow the pre-enlistment options from Book 5, you need a 9+ just to get into college. I checked the MT players manual as well, and the discrepancy exists there too.

I was thinking of just pushing the position roll for the Army to 9+ in the Basic CG system, but that is based on integrating the various advanced school options into CG as well (basically, giving players the chance to get commando, intel, or OCS in the basic system).

Any thoughts from the assembled?

Rob

By my reckoning, a character with Educ 8+ and Endur 7+ (and you don't want an ignorant wimp as an officer)
Army
Book1: 4+ for commission, 92%. Rediculously high.
Book4: 5+ (2/6) for Special assignmemnt, then 2/6 for OCS. Repeat 4x, 34%

Yeah, there is a discrepancy. I agree that Book4 is more detailed, and gives a more realistic mix of military characters. Book1 assumes that most retired enlisted men won't "travel" much, so Travellers are mostly ex-officers.

If you want more enlisted men in your campaign, raising the position roll to 9 should work. The Book 1 characters still won't have the same skills, though.

Sorry it took so long to pin this down.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Originally posted by Ranger:
I've been going over the CG process and trying to get the basic and advanced systems in agreement so to speak. One inconsistancy that seems to really jump out is how easy it is to get a commision in the Army in Book 1 as opposed to how hard it is in Book 4. In Book 1, you need a 5+, in Book 4, you need to roll 11 or 12 for assignment, then roll 6+ to get OCS. If you allow the pre-enlistment options from Book 5, you need a 9+ just to get into college. I checked the MT players manual as well, and the discrepancy exists there too.

I was thinking of just pushing the position roll for the Army to 9+ in the Basic CG system, but that is based on integrating the various advanced school options into CG as well (basically, giving players the chance to get commando, intel, or OCS in the basic system).

Any thoughts from the assembled?

Rob

By my reckoning, a character with Educ 8+ and Endur 7+ (and you don't want an ignorant wimp as an officer)
Army
Book1: 4+ for commission, 92%. Rediculously high.
Book4: 5+ (2/6) for Special assignmemnt, then 2/6 for OCS. Repeat 4x, 34%

Yeah, there is a discrepancy. I agree that Book4 is more detailed, and gives a more realistic mix of military characters. Book1 assumes that most retired enlisted men won't "travel" much, so Travellers are mostly ex-officers.

If you want more enlisted men in your campaign, raising the position roll to 9 should work. The Book 1 characters still won't have the same skills, though.

Sorry it took so long to pin this down.

 

[DaveShayne]

I use the commision roll from book 1 during the first term for Books 4-7 characters. So some characters will enlist as officers (and get an automatic result of OCS for their second assignment.)

YMMV

 

[DaveShayne]

I use the commision roll from book 1 during the first term for Books 4-7 characters. So some characters will enlist as officers (and get an automatic result of OCS for their second assignment.)

YMMV

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello DaveShayne,

Okay, I'm a little confused here on how this system works. Book 1 basically generates an Officer, which indicates to me the PC went to some sort of academy/OCS. If the PC misses the enlistment roll to be an officer as per Book 1 and is drafted into the enlisted ranks, then I can see OCS on the second term. I should clarify that going to OCS is dependent on making a promotion roll at the bare minimum.

Originally posted by DaveShayne:
I use the commision roll from book 1 during the first term for Books 4-7 characters. So some characters will enlist as officers (and get an automatic result of OCS for their second assignment.)

YMMV

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello DaveShayne,

Okay, I'm a little confused here on how this system works. Book 1 basically generates an Officer, which indicates to me the PC went to some sort of academy/OCS. If the PC misses the enlistment roll to be an officer as per Book 1 and is drafted into the enlisted ranks, then I can see OCS on the second term. I should clarify that going to OCS is dependent on making a promotion roll at the bare minimum.

Originally posted by DaveShayne:
I use the commision roll from book 1 during the first term for Books 4-7 characters. So some characters will enlist as officers (and get an automatic result of OCS for their second assignment.)

YMMV

 

[DaveShayne]

Originally posted by Thomas Rux:
Hello DaveShayne,

Okay, I'm a little confused here on how this system works. Book 1 basically generates an Officer, which indicates to me the PC went to some sort of academy/OCS. If the PC misses the enlistment roll to be an officer as per Book 1 and is drafted into the enlisted ranks, then I can see OCS on the second term. I should clarify that going to OCS is dependent on making a promotion roll at the bare minimum.

A first term character rolls for commision. If that character fails she enlists normally. If on the other hand she succeeds then she goes to basic training and then automatically to OCS.

A character that fails the commision roll is still eligible for OCS on a special assignment but isn't automatically enrolled like a character that makes it's commision roll.

I would like to emphasize that the commision roll is made only for the first term. Subsequent advancement to O1 comes only through OCS.

 

[DaveShayne]

Originally posted by Thomas Rux:
Hello DaveShayne,

Okay, I'm a little confused here on how this system works. Book 1 basically generates an Officer, which indicates to me the PC went to some sort of academy/OCS. If the PC misses the enlistment roll to be an officer as per Book 1 and is drafted into the enlisted ranks, then I can see OCS on the second term. I should clarify that going to OCS is dependent on making a promotion roll at the bare minimum.

A first term character rolls for commision. If that character fails she enlists normally. If on the other hand she succeeds then she goes to basic training and then automatically to OCS.

A character that fails the commision roll is still eligible for OCS on a special assignment but isn't automatically enrolled like a character that makes it's commision roll.

I would like to emphasize that the commision roll is made only for the first term. Subsequent advancement to O1 comes only through OCS.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning (PDT) DaveShayne,

Thank-you for clearing that up, now I can go onto othr things to confuse my poor wee brain .

Originally posted by DaveShayne:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Thomas Rux:
Hello DaveShayne,

Okay, I'm a little confused here on how this system works. Book 1 basically generates an Officer, which indicates to me the PC went to some sort of academy/OCS. If the PC misses the enlistment roll to be an officer as per Book 1 and is drafted into the enlisted ranks, then I can see OCS on the second term. I should clarify that going to OCS is dependent on making a promotion roll at the bare minimum.

A first term character rolls for commision. If that character fails she enlists normally. If on the other hand she succeeds then she goes to basic training and then automatically to OCS.

A character that fails the commision roll is still eligible for OCS on a special assignment but isn't automatically enrolled like a character that makes it's commision roll.

I would like to emphasize that the commision roll is made only for the first term. Subsequent advancement to O1 comes only through OCS. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning (PDT) DaveShayne,

Thank-you for clearing that up, now I can go onto othr things to confuse my poor wee brain .

Originally posted by DaveShayne:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Thomas Rux:
Hello DaveShayne,

Okay, I'm a little confused here on how this system works. Book 1 basically generates an Officer, which indicates to me the PC went to some sort of academy/OCS. If the PC misses the enlistment roll to be an officer as per Book 1 and is drafted into the enlisted ranks, then I can see OCS on the second term. I should clarify that going to OCS is dependent on making a promotion roll at the bare minimum.

A first term character rolls for commision. If that character fails she enlists normally. If on the other hand she succeeds then she goes to basic training and then automatically to OCS.

A character that fails the commision roll is still eligible for OCS on a special assignment but isn't automatically enrolled like a character that makes it's commision roll.

I would like to emphasize that the commision roll is made only for the first term. Subsequent advancement to O1 comes only through OCS. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[Ranger]

Well, after reading the responses, I have come to realize that this has a lot do with how you envission the Imperial Army (ok, this should have been obvious from the start, but at least I figured it out eventually).

Book 1 seems to envision an Imperial Army that is mainly an adviser force to local/planitary Armies. It makes sense that this force would be officers and technical warrents (the US un-commissioned officers, not to be confused with non commissioned officers). The mission is to advise local troops and co-ordinate defenses. Not much need for lots of enlisted troops (hense, no enlisted ranks).

Book 4 implies an Imperial Army with a significant number of combat formations of its own. Thus, many enlisted and an entire enlisted structure.

I'd already gone for a Book 4 answer, and have created enlisted ranks for book 1 type CG. Hense by discomfort with the high commissioning rate of Book 1.

Thanks to everyone who replied, and please add any more ideas on this issue you may have. I have a feeling I will be playing with this for a while.

Rob

 

[Ranger]

Well, after reading the responses, I have come to realize that this has a lot do with how you envission the Imperial Army (ok, this should have been obvious from the start, but at least I figured it out eventually).

Book 1 seems to envision an Imperial Army that is mainly an adviser force to local/planitary Armies. It makes sense that this force would be officers and technical warrents (the US un-commissioned officers, not to be confused with non commissioned officers). The mission is to advise local troops and co-ordinate defenses. Not much need for lots of enlisted troops (hense, no enlisted ranks).

Book 4 implies an Imperial Army with a significant number of combat formations of its own. Thus, many enlisted and an entire enlisted structure.

I'd already gone for a Book 4 answer, and have created enlisted ranks for book 1 type CG. Hense by discomfort with the high commissioning rate of Book 1.

Thanks to everyone who replied, and please add any more ideas on this issue you may have. I have a feeling I will be playing with this for a while.

Rob