Both editions of mercenary
- Thread starter JoelMB12
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Get the one that matches your corebook...
No. Get the 2nd Edition of Mercenary for MgT1e.
(Yeah, I know, that's almost confusing)
It is - the focus of second edition is far more on running a merc company, plus it has a much smoother mass combat system that will let you flick between squad/platoon scale up to entire nations fighting one another with some fair speed.
If you need to run a merc company, get FFE's CT CD-ROM and/or SJGames' GURPS Traveller: Star Mercs. The CD contains all of CT for the price of one Mongoose splat book and GT:SM is available for a few bucks as a .pdf at the SJG site. You'll easily be able to use both in your campaigns.
Mongoose has a very well-earned reputation for shoddy work and paltry research among other things. For example, their first version of Mercenary was typed by someone who thought the term "merchant marine" referred security guards on freighters and contained stats for artillery pieces which belonged in cartoons.
When spending limited gaming dollars, it's always best to choose quality.
The combat system is smoother. But the mechanics/economics of running a mercenary group don't work at all.
I would agree that it depends on what you plan on using it for. If you want to add variety to Mercenary characters, get the first one. The second one promised much and delivered very little. YMMV.
(DISCLAIMER: I like the 1st edition Merc book even though it had similar merc group economics problems as above. But it had a ticket system that was tons of fun. Even GURPS: Star Mercs is unhelpful when it comes to economics. For best results, check out Battletech Mercenaries and hack it.)
Anti-crapping.
First off, Aramis is correct get what matches your core rules.
And then get the 2nd Edtion because I wrote two tickets for it, you could run them and then post after action reports so I know if they were good.
But seriously I know there were plenty discussion for the second, so hopefully it should function better. However, again core rules compatibility is probably your first concern unless Matt comes to say that they both work with 1st edtion rules. I thought that Merc 2nd came before the Core Rules 2nd so they might be, but I am way behind on my MGT, still need to finish with the core rules.
[m;]Plus, with the Mod hat on briefly yeah, cool it down, the neighbors called in about the noise.[/m;]
First off, Aramis is correct get what matches your core rules.
And then get the 2nd Edtion because I wrote two tickets for it, you could run them and then post after action reports so I know if they were good.
But seriously I know there were plenty discussion for the second, so hopefully it should function better. However, again core rules compatibility is probably your first concern unless Matt comes to say that they both work with 1st edtion rules. I thought that Merc 2nd came before the Core Rules 2nd so they might be, but I am way behind on my MGT, still need to finish with the core rules.
[m;]Plus, with the Mod hat on briefly yeah, cool it down, the neighbors called in about the noise.[/m;]
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My comment was that Mongoose has not released a Mercenary for 2nd Edition Traveller yet.
However, for Mongoose 1e, they released 2 editions of Mercenary, and that if you are going to purchase it, get the newer one.
However, for Mongoose 1e, they released 2 editions of Mercenary, and that if you are going to purchase it, get the newer one.
My comment was that Mongoose has not released a Mercenary for 2nd Edition Traveller yet.
However, for Mongoose 1e, they released 2 editions of Mercenary, and that if you are going to purchase it, get the newer one.
Exactamundo.
Weirdly they released a 2ed Mercenary before 2ed corebook and it isn't the case that it melds effortlessly with MGT 2ed.
That's because it was just an update to the original.
nats
SOC-12
I have no idea why they re-wote Mercenary just before releasing a completely new set of rules and I have to say I didnt like the new Mercenary because it doesnt fit in with the new rules' look and style its very much a 1st edition book just an improvement on the terrible first Mercenary book that was written. So far no Mongoose Mercenary book has come anywhere close to the Classic Traveller Mercenary book. But then you really need a modern combat junky to write it to do it justice.
But none of the books have really provided what is necessary in order to run a good Mercenary campaign without relying on a heck of a lot of referee creativity. But the new Core Rulebook does a lot more for that now because of the way vehicles and aircraft/fighters etc are integrated into the combat rules. For the first time I could see a Mercenary campaign being able to be ran well but it really needs a book the same as the spaceship/High Guard combat rules sections but just written for large joint ground/air/armour conflicts instead. It could almost be the Traveller equivalent of the ARMA 3 computer game.
Either way though none of the existing books really work that well for doing what they are supposed to do. But the CT book is definitely the most interesting to read.
But none of the books have really provided what is necessary in order to run a good Mercenary campaign without relying on a heck of a lot of referee creativity. But the new Core Rulebook does a lot more for that now because of the way vehicles and aircraft/fighters etc are integrated into the combat rules. For the first time I could see a Mercenary campaign being able to be ran well but it really needs a book the same as the spaceship/High Guard combat rules sections but just written for large joint ground/air/armour conflicts instead. It could almost be the Traveller equivalent of the ARMA 3 computer game.
Either way though none of the existing books really work that well for doing what they are supposed to do. But the CT book is definitely the most interesting to read.
I agree with this assessment, and it is an area I very much want to visit. However, we are not going to be rushing it - Mercenary for the current rules is something we will be taking our time over to get right.
lego zhodani
SOC-7
As Traveller is a RPG, I think writing a rule system that will knock most wargames rules into a cocked hat and be better at management than a FIFA football game is a tall challenge. Best of luck.
*this is hard to type while my cat licks my fingers! Pescky mini Aslan.*
*this is hard to type while my cat licks my fingers! Pescky mini Aslan.*
I am interested that you say that, because I'm finding the 2.0 corebook advertises that it can do the things you say regarding finally melding personal, vehicle and spacecraft combat but struggling in actual situations.
Would you mind expanding some more on how you use it and how you find it in these situations?
I found both Mercenary books lacking in core elements... unfortunately, they are lacking different things in each book. The first book has no decent mass combat system. The second book has no mechanics to design tickets, run companies etc.
I prefer the 1st edition. I'm in the minority here. Then again, I also like the career expansion splats of the first line of books.
On a sidenote, I did bubblegum the mercenary company costs mechanic together to make one that is remotely realistic. The published ones are unworkable but if you combine them, you can actually get some decent numbers.
EDIT: I found my post. It's rough but I forgot I used mechanics from 1st and 2nd edition... http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=32814&highlight=Mercenary
My issue with both... if I buy a book called Mercenary, in a space game where mercenary companies are common, I expect some work to be put in on the concept of running a mercenary game. Something like Battletech: Mercenaries is pure gold and Traveller deserves something similar.
IMPORTANT: If you are actually thinking of running mercenary company games, I recommend the 1st edition Mercenary AND (more important) Hammer's Slammers. The contract/mission stuff in Hammer's Slammers helps with putting events into your campaign. The 1st edition Mercenary game has mechanics for recruiting, negotiating tickets and so on. Between those two, you can work up to some good fun. The 2nd edition Mercenary book... I can't remember much of it but I know I read it two-three times and haven't opened it since.
I prefer the 1st edition. I'm in the minority here. Then again, I also like the career expansion splats of the first line of books.
On a sidenote, I did bubblegum the mercenary company costs mechanic together to make one that is remotely realistic. The published ones are unworkable but if you combine them, you can actually get some decent numbers.
EDIT: I found my post. It's rough but I forgot I used mechanics from 1st and 2nd edition... http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=32814&highlight=Mercenary
My issue with both... if I buy a book called Mercenary, in a space game where mercenary companies are common, I expect some work to be put in on the concept of running a mercenary game. Something like Battletech: Mercenaries is pure gold and Traveller deserves something similar.
IMPORTANT: If you are actually thinking of running mercenary company games, I recommend the 1st edition Mercenary AND (more important) Hammer's Slammers. The contract/mission stuff in Hammer's Slammers helps with putting events into your campaign. The 1st edition Mercenary game has mechanics for recruiting, negotiating tickets and so on. Between those two, you can work up to some good fun. The 2nd edition Mercenary book... I can't remember much of it but I know I read it two-three times and haven't opened it since.
And now there is also Referees Briefing 4: Mercenary Forces.
I got it hoping it might be a 3rd edition in disguise. Instead it is more a description of what mercenary forces are, how they might be made up, and some example mercenary units. It has 4 example weapons in the back (from CSC I think) but strangely no details on any of the vehicles mentioned as being used by the various mercenary units in the book.
No actual roleplaying rules in it.
I got it hoping it might be a 3rd edition in disguise. Instead it is more a description of what mercenary forces are, how they might be made up, and some example mercenary units. It has 4 example weapons in the back (from CSC I think) but strangely no details on any of the vehicles mentioned as being used by the various mercenary units in the book.
No actual roleplaying rules in it.
nats
SOC-12
I dont use either book tbh I bought and then sold both of them. I am only using 2nd edition stuff now. The core rule book has everything you need other than for the Merc organisation and mass combat.
If I was wanting to design a Merc outfit at the moment I would probably use CT Book 4 for the organisation and any mass combat etc and I would probably make up my own system for the combat resolution which would be along the lines of players being part of a Section or Squad and they would see only immediate combat situations around them using the vehicle, artillery and fighter rules house ruled if necessary depending on the players desires on what bit of the unit they want to be a part of.
I wouldnt bother resolving the rest of the war much other than passing on briefings occasionally, but if you want to then Book 4 has everything you need to enable that. Again the ARMA2/3 games are perfect examples of what kind of immediate combat experience and the intermediary briefings should be like for the players - ie fast frenetic and confusing combat interspersed with very vague briefings and with the odd plane. helicopter and tank involvement thrown in to surprise them.
I honestly cant remember what the Merc books for Mongoose Traveller were like now but wasnt that impressed with them but then admittedly I have never been that interested in Merc combat in terms of the vague massed battle resolution that they protray. And tbh I dont think players would ever be very knowledgeable about that stuff either unless they were a colonel or general and that would be a rather dull game for them.
Far better for them to be grunts with no information other than 'take that hill' or 'hold this junction'.
I would be very interested in Mongoose covering a more detailed massed combat system along the lines of running a sort of high level hex type wargame where the referee is controlling a series of large combats over a theatre that he generates the results for and they are used to create a real war on the fly around the characters that ebbs and flows in a realistic manner. The referee could generate the results of this war in between play sessions and use this to create small conflicts for the players and inform player briefings. But it would be rather complex and need to cover combined operations, supply, reinforcements, politics, etc. I think it would be a big undertaking but there may well be a simple board type wargame that would be suitable for doing this already I dont know.
But AFAIK no Traveller book has ever done anything like this - possibly one of the CT games has like maybe the Fifth Frontier War game or Imperium maybe. CTs Striker went into this sort of thing but it was too small scale to be really interesting to me - it didnt cover the high level combat resolution. Whereas the highly generalised mass combat in the MgT Merc books was too vague to be really interesting to me. Too much work for the referee to make that into a real ongoing interesting war.
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The Invasion Earth and FFW combat mechanics are easily used. The default strength is in battalions of infantry, so it's well above what is practical for most mercenary games. Everything BUT the combat system is in the MT Rebellion Sourcebook; MT Ref's Companion has rules for using the MegaTraveller rules for resolving unit level combats at any smaller level. I've used it extensively at mixed "counter scaling" - individuals to platoons - and occasionally for company or battalion level bases...
(counter scaling: a counter is this size unit. If counter size is company, each counter is a company.)
Note also, the rules for figuring out the expected forces on a world are directly given in unit size values... for PopMult 1. And are in MegaTraveller's Rebellion Sourcebook. You'll need either Invasion Earth or FFW for the combat system...
