Challenge coin

[rancke]

Challenge coins is something I'd never heard about before Howard Tayler's kickstarter project for Schlock Mercenary challenge coins. Such coins seem like something that could still be around in the Far Future, and there are several ways to use them that occur to me:

* Collectors could be after rare ones just like any other kind of collectable.

* Someone might be after a coin with a lower number than his own.

* Coins could contain secret information, like the cards in Aces & Eights.

* A PC could have one from his old unit (and be on the lookout for one with a lower number).

Anyone have any other ideas?


Hans

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Not sure how Schlock Mercenary treats them, but challenge coins are a time-honored tradition in anglosphere militaries. They are generally given for two reasons: membership in a particular unit and for achieving something or impressing someone noteworthy. The "impressing someone noteworthy" bit occurs when generals and admirals come and visit, or perhaps top civilians.

The "challenge" part actually comes in when you're at the bar. If someone brings out a coin, everyone has to produce one. Anyone who *doesn't* has to buy the round. Often, the challenge is made when the coin is placed on the bar. There are some hardcore folks who insist there is a hierarchy of coins, with the lowest being those for mere membership in a unit, and the lowest coin buys (if everyone has a coin). However, the original rule is that if everyone produces a coin, the challenger buys. (The other rule was made up by jerks who think their coins make them somehow special and immune from ever buying a round.)

 

[BlackBat242]

Not sure how Schlock Mercenary treats them, but challenge coins are a time-honored tradition in anglosphere militaries. They are generally given for two reasons: membership in a particular unit and for achieving something or impressing someone noteworthy. The "impressing someone noteworthy" bit occurs when generals and admirals come and visit, or perhaps top civilians.

The "challenge" part actually comes in when you're at the bar. If someone brings out a coin, everyone has to produce one. Anyone who *doesn't* has to buy the round. Often, the challenge is made when the coin is placed on the bar. There are some hardcore folks who insist there is a hierarchy of coins, with the lowest being those for mere membership in a unit, and the lowest coin buys (if everyone has a coin). However, the original rule is that if everyone produces a coin, the challenger buys. (The other rule was made up by jerks who think their coins make them somehow special and immune from ever buying a round.)

I spent 8 years in the USMC in the 1980s, 2 years of which included deployments aboard a USN aircraft carrier (working in ship's workcenters with Navy personnel)... and never heard of "challenge coins" until they showed up in shows like NCIS, etc after 2000.

I have doubts about the "time-honored" part - I rather suspect it is something that started with a specific spec-ops group and was quickly copied by the other military fields - and given a veneer of "tradition" that is mostly self-invented PR, not history.

 

[fridge]

In my office we have 6 matching wooden chairs. Each has a small plaque on it. " You are in the top six". These are possessed by the 6 longest serving staff members, regardless of level. When one retires/resigns they seek out the 7th and pass on their chair.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I have doubts about the "time-honored" part - I rather suspect it is something that started with a specific spec-ops group and was quickly copied by the other military fields - and given a veneer of "tradition" that is mostly self-invented PR, not history.

Well, they already had a solid tradition* in the US Air Force sometime around 1988 or so, and I encountered them in the Army in the mid-90's. The US Air Force used them in bar challenges more than the Army did, in my personal experience. They were prevalent in the Navy in the 90s and 00s, though I rarely encountered a coin challenge there.

Wikipedia relates that they began with the Lafayette Escadrille or the first official US Army Air Corps units in World War I; it also mentions they might have begun during the Vietnam War with special forces units. Apparently, a Canadian airborne unit has had them since the 70s, as well.

*Mind you, tradition in a service that's only 66 years old is a little scarce. Especially when they like to change anything that looks like it has the potential of becoming engrained enough to become a tradition.

 

[Garyius2003]

I spent 8 years in the USMC in the 1980s, 2 years of which included deployments aboard a USN aircraft carrier (working in ship's workcenters with Navy personnel)... and never heard of "challenge coins" until they showed up in shows like NCIS, etc after 2000.

I have doubts about the "time-honored" part - I rather suspect it is something that started with a specific spec-ops group and was quickly copied by the other military fields - and given a veneer of "tradition" that is mostly self-invented PR, not history.

Truth. Five years Marines Corps in the early 90s and never saw one. Joined the Army Guard, with a one year call up, and received four. One for explaining to the Army Asst Sec why Clinton's plan was unlikely to work. She did not agree, but was willing to debate. She later shared her feelings that Marines are extremists, and had to resign.

 

[navywarlord]

Served in the Navy from 1982 to 2003 and never heard of the challenge coin until I worked for the DOJ. A retired army co-worker filled me in on the practice and show me his collection. I have a few now as souvenirs but I don't drink or frequent clubs where they would actually come into play as a "challenge". Nice keepsake but thats about it

 

[Ran Targas]

Shipmates, very few Navy units had coins but my Army buddies, particularly SF and Ranger guys, had them. They're basically the same kind of coins handed out at a ship commissioning or other event with a unit crest or other emblematic devices on them.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

They were certainly hit-or-miss in most places - unless there were flag-rank people involved. I saw them frequently at the Division- and Corps-level in the Army (mid-90s), command ships (Building 20... errrrr, LCC-20 USS Mount Whitney, in the 00s) in the Navy, and over 25 years it filtered from fighter units (where there was some tradition) up to Major Commands and Numbered Air Forces back down to flying units in the Air Force.

 

[samuelvss]

I have doubts about the "time-honored" part - I rather suspect it is something that started with a specific spec-ops group and was quickly copied by the other military fields - and given a veneer of "tradition" that is mostly self-invented PR, not history.

That is the long and the short of it. They started, as I heard it, in the U.S. Army SF, one of the groups, and spread from there. They were used as an on-the-spot award when I was active-duty infantry in the late 80's, and by the dawning of this century they had gotten stupid. The challenge aspect is a bit much, because anyone on active duty for a few years would have to carry around a sandbag full.

They are to allow field grade officers to feel good at "recognizing excellence" without having to get award citations written up, and are passed out to troops like John Wayne bars bars to Vietnamese children in all components of the Army. I can't vouch for the infection rates in other branches...

 

[aramis]

They were certainly hit-or-miss in most places - unless there were flag-rank people involved. I saw them frequently at the Division- and Corps-level in the Army (mid-90s), command ships (Building 20... errrrr, LCC-20 USS Mount Whitney, in the 00s) in the Navy, and over 25 years it filtered from fighter units (where there was some tradition) up to Major Commands and Numbered Air Forces back down to flying units in the Air Force.

The one's I've gotten have been from military-heavy non-military organizations. I got one from the KofC for degree team work. I got one from a school, but was instructed to give it to a student of my choosing.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

The challenge aspect is a bit much, because anyone on active duty for a few years would have to carry around a sandbag full.

You only have to carry one. If there's some sort of hierarchy involved, then you would carry the highest one you've earned.

I can see using this - especially for particular units. Others might have tattoos they share. A way of recognizing each other, or weeding out phonies when in one of *their* places.

So, your character walks into the bar where it's said all the old 67th Legion guys hang out, trying to blend in, when suddenly someone slaps a large coin down on the bar. Pretty soon, there's a chorus of coins ringing against the bar and on tables, with the character sitting there, looking befuddled; all eyes turn to him, expectantly. A grizzled veteran with what appears to be a prosthetic leg, looks at him and growls, "You're not a Grizzly, so what are you doing in here, son?" (He missed that Streetwise roll by *that* much....)

 

[Garyius2003]

Now, there will be something in the 3I Military/Vet world. Not always a coin, but something.

The Marine Corps did not have coins in the early 90s, but there were jackets and tee-shirts showing different military locations or operations. By the 2000s window stickers for cars and military plates became popular.

Heinlein thought it would be earrings. It could be patches, or miniature medals in civvie dress, or coins, or face tats, or heck, special shoes, but there is likely to be something.

Even I broke down and got a license plate.

 

[samuelvss]

You only have to carry one. If there's some sort of hierarchy involved, then you would carry the highest one you've earned.

There ISN'T an agreed heirarchy involved; that's exactly my point. Somebody you were in the rangers with pulls out his old 75th coin (or one from one of the Batt's), and you pull out your 2125th REMF Group (Chairborne) coin, because that's what your commander wants you to have, then he claims his has priority. You carry your 2nd Batt coin, and your 2125th commander makes you buy the beer. You carry your 2nd Batt and your 2125th coin, and the general who was your commander in 1st Batt coins you.

Now some coins have the rank of those who gave them out, but that's not the tradition. The point is, while these things are very widespread, and that profusion pretty much killed any traditions involved. It's like the berets; when they were for the special ops and Airborne guys that was great. When then whole Army wore them, we just looked stupid. Now we just have them with Class A's which looks Really Stupid.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

And, if the guy who whips out the other coin claims you have to buy beers because your coin isn't good enough, then you tell him he's more of a REMF than you are and he needs to go pound sand. I've never seen (except possibly among those for whom coins are a way of proving how cool and important you are) any coin rejected unless it clearly wasn't a legitimate coin.

 

[GRNDL]

So, any thoughts toward the OP's request for suggestions, rules, or anything else?

It might not be that common for the world's real military, but what about our fictional ones? With the Schlock mercs, its a great way to get "content" about your fictional merc units across to each other and players, without having to have really detailed backstories. You can just whip out a prop coin and get the players guessing, wondering and challenge them to provide their own...

 

[whartung]

So, any thoughts toward the OP's request for suggestions, rules, or anything else?

I thought Fritz' scenario was really good. You could also probably pull it off with any organization: volunteer fire dept, biker gang, paramilitary boy scouts...

 

[CosmicGamer]

Many organizations and events give out coins as mementos. I've gotten coins at sporting events, corporate picnics, anniversary celebrations, and yes, even the military. Perhaps collectable since they are produced in limited number, usually to commemorate something of interest. At no point has anyone ever referred to these as challenge coins and I never heard of such until mentioned on gaming forums.

Just happened to be moving an old box of stuff yesterday and found three of these inside. I don't even remember getting them, but then I don't recall what half my ribbons and medals are for either.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8117/8654206841_ba39d6523c_z.jpg

 

[JimMarn]

The US Amaterur Radio Relay League gives out a challenge coin.

arrl-introduces-first-challenge-coin

It is a tie-in with the Amateur Radio Emergency Services group, ARES. The above page includes a link to a wikipedia page of lots more info.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

but then I don't recall what half my ribbons and medals are for either.

Awww, now you're just bragging.