shadowlord
SOC-7
To be a little different I want my character to have as an emergency weapon a Chinese war fan. Any idea as to what the damage should be?
Chinese War Fan
- Thread starter shadowlord
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Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Made of bonded superdense, I suppose it might actually stop bullets.
If it's the butterfly pattern, it is essentially a mace.
CT offers us no mace; closest approximate is a club.
There's supposed to be a specific martial art around using the fan (the folding one, I think, not the butterfly): Tessenjutsu. If someone without that skill just picked the fan up and started swinging, I'd say he was just using a club: if he's got Brawling skill, good, he can use his skill as a bonus; otherwise it's just another skill-0 improvised weapon. If someone specifically took skill in Tessenjutsu, I'd treat it instead as Club +1 (they're much better balanced than your typical chair leg, and the skill's supposed to be intended to take advantage of that). CT allows the use of Brawling or Blade Combat skill as a parrying defense; I'd permit the same parry ability to someone with skill in Tessenjutsu.
Hmmm ... it would have to be in the way more or less in the instant the person shot - no way you're going to move it into block position between the time you recogize the shot and the time the shot arrives, most of all because you've got no way of knowing where the bullet's likely to hit. And, the impact of the bullet's likely to move the fan: unless you're sitting there braced for the shot, like in some circus act, you're not likely to be holding the fan rigidly enough to dead stop a bullet. Might get a bit complicated trying to figure out a rule for it - maybe just make it easy and assign a -1 penalty DM to the shooter.
However, the fan supposedly was also used to parry arrows. You could apply the standard CT melee parry to arrows, darts, and such (which is to say the fan user gets to subtract his Tessenjutsu skill from the attacker's role - I wouldn't allow such a defense without Tessenjutsu skill.) That would surprise the heck out of an archer.
(I've actually parried an arrow once or twice, though not with a fan; it was the SCA combat arrow, which is fired from a light bow and additionally handicapped by a big spongy safety-head that slows flight quite a bit. Not representative of real-world behavior. I don't know if the legends about the fan are true or not - but, boy, it'd be a way cool feature!)
shadowlord
SOC-7
I'm using MgT for the rules. I invisoned it as the sort of fan you would see Southern ladies using ( ie Gone with the Wind ) but with sharp edges. Probably made from stiff leather but super dense would do. So given the above then dagger damage would be appropriate. Also melee blade or unarmed as the associate skill?
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
There's a paragraph or two in the opening, Burocrate:
Then, there is a much longer discussion of individual melee weapons, beginning on page 7, and running to page 12. Then stats, on pp 21-22. It includes all sorts of melee weapons (including telescoping batons, "stealth" nunchakus, and brass knuckles), but no War Fan that I see.
and
Then, there is a much longer discussion of individual melee weapons, beginning on page 7, and running to page 12. Then stats, on pp 21-22. It includes all sorts of melee weapons (including telescoping batons, "stealth" nunchakus, and brass knuckles), but no War Fan that I see.
MT stats for a mace are in "When It's Lances, Not Lasers", Challenge 49.
A mace has Pen 3, Dmg 2, range 1.5m Similar to a Blade.
(They're also in my Weapons charts, BTW.)
Thanks Fritz, my copy is buried (safely) and I was not able to find other info on-line.
I don't have/do T20 but if that's its attitude about weapons, I gots issues with it. Any weapon is ultimately a tool tailored for a specific need - in some cases a tool tailored for one need that's being pressed into service for another. Someone chopping trees with a wood-axe is going to be carrying a mighty big axe for a good reason - and it will make a pretty effective weapon, the more so if they've had to learn to use it as a weapon. Local circumstances - say a big, slow and particularly well-armored armadillo-like herbivore that's considered good eating, may incline the local rural folk to carry rude maces into the "woods" to smack the things on the head rather than putting a bullet into the meat. A variety of polearms are little more than modified farm tools - forks, bill hooks, threshing flails; whether or not these remained in use would depend on the tech level of your world and the relative wealth of your rural folk, but a player who finds himself discovered in the hayloft with the farmer's daughter is likely to be very interested in knowing exactly how much damage that pitchfork is likely to do.
In a high law world, restrictions on weapons production and import may oblige the local version of the swamp-country Cajuns to resort to weapons that they can manufacture themselves: simple bows and crossbows that can be made and, if need demands, discarded or destroyed when the law shows up, and then made anew once the coast is clear. The bow being quite a bit quieter than the typical firearm, it can also be a bit more useful - in a setting that favors its use - for delivering a pointed hint to the visiting law that they would be happier back in the big city.
The superiority of firearms only holds if the law lets you have firearms and local circumstances don't put you in a situation that eliminates your advantage.
I don't have any of the Challenge mags, which highlights a problem with their use as canon: while they're very useful, not all players will have a full collection of Magazine-X from which to draw clues. This can be good if you're running a scenario from a mag; it can lead to arguments when the ref draws out a tool or rule that the player didn't know existed but his character should have been aware of.
However, I will have to make a point to go see your weapons chart.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Carlobrand, the book seems to have sort of an attitude, as if it's a weapons catalog in the real world. So, there's advice and sales pitches in it. After that statement it goes on to list stats for some rather impractical weapons for normal carry - but they could be really useful from a referee's point-of-view.
Also, notice that it says "not really practical for defensive carry". Someone carrying around an axe, spear or crossbow is a little suspect in most modern societies. A firearm is much easier and more discreet for carry - even on a high law level world - than a halberd.
Also, notice that it says "not really practical for defensive carry". Someone carrying around an axe, spear or crossbow is a little suspect in most modern societies. A firearm is much easier and more discreet for carry - even on a high law level world - than a halberd.
