RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Would someone explain to me what Admiral of the "Green" and Admiral of the "Red" is referring to in these novels?
Christmas Tree Admiralty
- Thread starter RainOfSteel
- Start date
They are basically ways of adding in additional rank levels within a rank. Green is higher than Red.
So you get
Admiral of the Green
Admiral of the Red
Admiral
Vice Admiral of the Green
Vice Admiral of the Red
Vice Admiral
Etc. At least to my understanding.
So you get
Admiral of the Green
Admiral of the Red
Admiral
Vice Admiral of the Green
Vice Admiral of the Red
Vice Admiral
Etc. At least to my understanding.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I don't think there's a "Admiral" without a color. So there are two levels within each "flag" rank, and (I think) you move from on to the other by seniority.
So you first become a Rear Admiral of the Red, and then either wait until seniority moves you to RAdm of the Green, or earn a promotion to Vice Admiral of the Red.
In normal usage, you don't bother to say whether an officer is "of the Red" or "of the Green," that seems to be only for very formal situations, although I'm sure all flag officers know who is in which grade.
I'm not sure if Commodores are divided into "Red" and "Green," does anyone recall any references?
So you first become a Rear Admiral of the Red, and then either wait until seniority moves you to RAdm of the Green, or earn a promotion to Vice Admiral of the Red.
In normal usage, you don't bother to say whether an officer is "of the Red" or "of the Green," that seems to be only for very formal situations, although I'm sure all flag officers know who is in which grade.
I'm not sure if Commodores are divided into "Red" and "Green," does anyone recall any references?
I don't think Commodores are divided, mainly due to it not really being a rank of it's own. Since the entire Star Kingdom is based on the structure of the United Kingdom, the naval ranks are the same. A Commodore is a Captain who commands a squadron, but is not senior enough to merit a Rear Admiral rank. Strictly speaking there are two classes of Commodore, one who commands a squadron and one who also still retains command of his own ship, though I don't believe any distinction is made between them in HH.
Of course a Commodore is also a Captain who is on someone elses ship, and is given the Commodore rank as an honorific promotion while visiting to prevent the problems that can arise from having two captains on one ship. I don't think this has been used in the Honorverse but I could be wrong.
Of course a Commodore is also a Captain who is on someone elses ship, and is given the Commodore rank as an honorific promotion while visiting to prevent the problems that can arise from having two captains on one ship. I don't think this has been used in the Honorverse but I could be wrong.
BrennanHawkwood
SOC-12
IIRC in the Honorverse Commodore is treated as an actual rank (kind of like it was for a little while in the U.S. Navy) as opposed to being a just a captain who commands a squadron. I don't beleive they were divided either.
Just did a quick search and found this...
http://w1.545.telia.com/~u54504162/honor/hh_bible.htm
... that has a full description of the rank structures, including an explanation of the Green and Red divisions.
Just did a quick search and found this...
http://w1.545.telia.com/~u54504162/honor/hh_bible.htm
... that has a full description of the rank structures, including an explanation of the Green and Red divisions.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Thanks, all.
So, since the RMN draws it's rank structure from the British Navy, then, does the British Admiralty has "greens" and "reds" in it?
So, since the RMN draws it's rank structure from the British Navy, then, does the British Admiralty has "greens" and "reds" in it?
BrennanHawkwood
SOC-12
I don't think they do anymore. It looks ilke they used divisions of Red, White and Blue from the mid-1600s to the mid-1800s.
I have found the following website to be an excellent source of information about the history and tradition of U.S. and British Naval uniforms and ranks.
http://users.sisna.com/justinb/unifhome.html
The bit about the colored divisions can be found by going to 'Naval Ranks' then 'Line or Executive Officers' then 'Admiral'.
I have found the following website to be an excellent source of information about the history and tradition of U.S. and British Naval uniforms and ranks.
http://users.sisna.com/justinb/unifhome.html
The bit about the colored divisions can be found by going to 'Naval Ranks' then 'Line or Executive Officers' then 'Admiral'.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
The two colors denoted seniority. "Each of the RMN's flag ranks was divided into two divisions on the basis of seniority: the junior half of each rank were admirals of the red, or Gyrphon Division, while the senior half were admirals of the green, or Manticore Division. Simple longevity would eventually move any flag officer from one division to the other, but they could also be promoted over the heads of their fellows..." From On Basilisk Station, Chapter 2.
No mention of Commodores being Flag officers for these purposes, but in most current Navies Commodore is generally a Flag rank. (In the US Navy it is rank O7 equivalent to a Brigadier General in the other services.) I do seem to remember Captains being of the Red and Green, but I haven't found the reference. If it does goes down as far as Captain then Commodore would be included.
No mention of Commodores being Flag officers for these purposes, but in most current Navies Commodore is generally a Flag rank. (In the US Navy it is rank O7 equivalent to a Brigadier General in the other services.) I do seem to remember Captains being of the Red and Green, but I haven't found the reference. If it does goes down as far as Captain then Commodore would be included.
PapaGolfWhiskey
SOC-13
I think currently the US uses 'lower half' and 'upper half' to designate between otherwise identically ranked admirals much the way the RMN uses red and green.
Can't be positive my own navy just uses three ranks of adimiral. And I think commodore is an actuall rank in it.
Can't be positive my own navy just uses three ranks of adimiral. And I think commodore is an actuall rank in it.
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
Currently, the U.S. Navy does not have a rank called 'Commodore'. It is a title given to a person of the rank of Captain or higher who oversees the operation of two or more ships.
An example is COMPSRON TWO, or Commander of Military Prepositioned Ship's Squadron Two (forward deployed to Diego Garcia). His rank is Captain, but his title is Commodore.
The person who directs the activities of several merchant vessels or a yatch club may also be called 'Commodore', even though he or she is a civilian. The authority of their title is usually recognized by the Coast Guard and Navy.
An example is COMPSRON TWO, or Commander of Military Prepositioned Ship's Squadron Two (forward deployed to Diego Garcia). His rank is Captain, but his title is Commodore.
The person who directs the activities of several merchant vessels or a yatch club may also be called 'Commodore', even though he or she is a civilian. The authority of their title is usually recognized by the Coast Guard and Navy.
The different admiral ranks are divided in half by seniority. The junior half is "of the Red." The senior half is "of the Green."
Keep in mind that a Vice Admiral of the Red is a superior rank to Rear Admiral of the Green.
Aside from the fact that officially the larger, more responsible jobs would go to the more senior people, it does not seem to matter all that much.
Honor is a relatively new Admiral...almost certainly of the Red, yet she is in charge of one of the largest fleets in Manticore.
It is not clear whether ranks of the red must call those of the green, 'sir' or 'madam.' In the US armed services, those of the same rank usually do not unless one of them is actually the commander of the other.
2nd post
THat's pretty much it. More specifically, in the past, junior admirals (the red) were assigned to the Gryphon Division of the RMN, while senior admirals were assigned to the Manticore (green) Division. The system itself has long since fallen out of use, but the terminology remains.
those were the answers I were given om bar
Keep in mind that a Vice Admiral of the Red is a superior rank to Rear Admiral of the Green.
Aside from the fact that officially the larger, more responsible jobs would go to the more senior people, it does not seem to matter all that much.
Honor is a relatively new Admiral...almost certainly of the Red, yet she is in charge of one of the largest fleets in Manticore.
It is not clear whether ranks of the red must call those of the green, 'sir' or 'madam.' In the US armed services, those of the same rank usually do not unless one of them is actually the commander of the other.
2nd post
THat's pretty much it. More specifically, in the past, junior admirals (the red) were assigned to the Gryphon Division of the RMN, while senior admirals were assigned to the Manticore (green) Division. The system itself has long since fallen out of use, but the terminology remains.
those were the answers I were given om bar
Rank structure as I understand it is:
Admiral of the Green
Admiral of the Red
Vice Admiral of the Green
Vice Admiral of the Red
Rear Admiral of the Green
Rear Admiral of the Red
Commodore
Captain Senior Grade
Captain Junior Grade
So yes, in the RMN side of the Honorverse, the rank of Commodore is a rank, and as I recall was basically descriped as a steping stone or 'trial period' of Captain Senior Grades before they got promoted fully into the flag ranks. However, one could stall in the Commodore rank though.
Commodore has no Green or Red as it is a flag rank designation of seniority only.
Captain Senior Grade and Captain Junior Grade is essential to split new captains from those that have proven themselves. If one was a CaptainJG and showed remarkable skill and determination, you would be promoted to CaptainSG, given a steward and often a bigger ship(if one can be found). The majority of Captains, as I understand it, are SG simply as JG is to test to see if someone can make as a Captain SG or be beached and put on halfpay.
Admiral of the Green
Admiral of the Red
Vice Admiral of the Green
Vice Admiral of the Red
Rear Admiral of the Green
Rear Admiral of the Red
Commodore
Captain Senior Grade
Captain Junior Grade
So yes, in the RMN side of the Honorverse, the rank of Commodore is a rank, and as I recall was basically descriped as a steping stone or 'trial period' of Captain Senior Grades before they got promoted fully into the flag ranks. However, one could stall in the Commodore rank though.
Commodore has no Green or Red as it is a flag rank designation of seniority only.
Captain Senior Grade and Captain Junior Grade is essential to split new captains from those that have proven themselves. If one was a CaptainJG and showed remarkable skill and determination, you would be promoted to CaptainSG, given a steward and often a bigger ship(if one can be found). The majority of Captains, as I understand it, are SG simply as JG is to test to see if someone can make as a Captain SG or be beached and put on halfpay.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Rereading the series I have come to the same conclusions on Senior Rank structure. as McGig. Good work sir.
