Classic Era Sector Files & Website Availability

[jrmapes]

It has come to my understanding that there has never been any (SEC) Sector files made for the 1105 CT setting/time frame for any of the existing programs out there such as World Builder (Deluxe), H&E, or Galactic, (or if they were they have been lost or never made public).

So here are my questions.

Aren't all the commonly available SEC,WBD, GAL, etc files based on the MegaTraveller time frame?

Were there HES sector files ever created for H&E? The install comes with the old WBS sector files.

If there were HES files, assuming they too were for MT, were they more accurate then the WBS files and if so where can they be found since the H&E Onelist/Yahoogroup is now dead?

Just how different is the info produced by the MT UWPs compared to UWPs from the CT time. I understand that MT added more fields to the UWPs which I really like - the more detail the better is the way I see it - but say in H&E when you pull up a Rice Paper on a world how different is that data from what would be generated if a CT era UWP (with the MT additions) would be generated?

Which available sector files contain the most accurate data...

For Classic Traveller?

For MegaTraveller?


Is it worth the effort to slog through thousands of UWPs to get accurate info for my 1105 game? (of course this, to me, depends on just how different the Rice Paper reports would be based on how different the MT data vs. the CT data is)



If I decide to take up this project I will make the sectors available for download. In the past I seem to recall on some forum someone or another saying they had done up a number of sectors for CT but they also made it clear they would never make them available for download - I am sure they had their reasons. But this, to me, goes against the grain of an online community and especially THIS online community.

As a matter of fact if anyone wants to get on this horse and help start creating CT era SEC files or you already have a few CT era SEC files that can be imported into H&E, Universe, etc. then I will move ahead a bit quicker and get my Traveller website back online ASAP and make them available to everyone.

As an aside, since I will be getting my old website back online, I want everyone to know that if you have Classic Traveller Material that you wish to share with the community but want an easier way to make it available or an additional way to make it available - I will be happy to host it on my site for you. I think I have collected almost all of the old and newer Classic Traveller programs and spreadsheets (freeware, shareware) that has been made available over the years - still looking though. So I hope to make a section of the website, basically, a clearinghouse for Traveller programs and spreadsheets and other "helper" files that have become either hard to find or unfindable anymore. Most of what I have collected is as I said CT stuff but I also have found a lot of MT stuff. So I am sure it will be made available too.

If you have material you want me to host then email me with some basic info about the material - also what format is it in (file type) and how big. I'd like to make sure everything is fairly computer universal - so PDF format for documents and charts are preferred. If you don't have the ability to convert stuff to PDF then let me know and we can try to get them into a format that I can use to PDF them.

Jerry

 

[aramis]

Most of the sectors have no pre-MT canonical data; the canonical data for the few sectors published with CT UWP's is a rather starkly short list...

Solomani Rim (Supp 10), Spinward Marches (Supp 3 and Spinward Marches Campaign), Several in the AM series (1 each in Aslan, K'Kree, Vargr, Hiver; Solomani does NOT, nor do Droyne nor Darrians, and I dont recall if Zhodani does), two subsectors in the Islands (Sup 5 TCS) and some scattered subsectors in various other sectors in other adventures.

Third party sources were decanonized when Atlas of the Imperium came out.

 

[jrmapes]

Thanks to Daryen for supplying the 1117 UWP data from the Regency Source Book, we have almost finished the Spinward Marches Sector files.

The website is up (finally - albeit running slow due to server issues), the link is below in my sig line; and I have three versions ready for download. There is the 1117 SM Sec file identical to the data that Daryen provided. There is also a Heaven & Earth formated sector file and a Universe format sector file that can be imported using the "Standard" IEL file.

I have given my reasons for any changes made to the UWPs proper in the H&E and Universe files. In almost every circumstance I defaulted to the LBB Sup 3 book. Although there were a couple changes to the trade codes based on the Spinward Marches Campaign book.

The only thing that is not yet complete in the H&E and Universe files are the Allegiance Codes. The H&E file still shows mostly all the allegiances from the 1117 data. The Universe file allegiance codes should now match the SMC book. It is my plan to continue to edit the Universe data and make it compatible to the LBB Sup 3 allegiance codes. I will still save a copy of the SMC Compatible coded file and make a copy of it for H&E import.

So there are a few more things that need to be done but this is a good start.

I hate being long winded, but since there is and has been so much debate about this type of thing, I just want to say that I am not pushing my corrections as the end all - be all SM data. However, aside from the few divergences, I like others, feel that the 1117 data is the best UWP data set out there but it still isnt perfect. Marc et al corrected most all the mistakes that he wanted corrected in this set and made sure that the stellar data was correct this time (or as correct as it has ever been). This is the number one reason why I think it is the best starting point if you, like I, want to have the most accurate data. The only data in my opinion that may be better to use is yet to be made available to the public - when T5 comes out then we may just have it.

The reason for making the 1117 data available in an "almost"* ready to import format is that I know not everyone will agree with the way i choose to correct the 1117 data where it diverged from the LBB Sup 3 book and some may just want the 1117 SM data for their game.

*almost ready - Where the 1117 diverges from LBB Sup3 is marked with leading asterisk on the World UWP entry so that the differences are easy to find. There are also parentheses with numbers in them following world names to denote duplicate names. Both the Asterisks and Parentheses will need to be removed prior to importing the file.

 

[daryen]

Just to clarify Aramis's post:

These are the canonical, published sectors for the CT era:
- Spinward Marches (S3, IA/IF [A0], SMC)
- Spinward Marches (Rhylanor [A2], "Spinward Main" [A3], Chronor & Jewell [A6], Vilis [A7], District 128 [A10], Regina [A12, TTB], Aramis [TTA], Darrian Worlds [AM8])
- Reft (New Islands & Old Islands [A5])
- Solomani Rim (S10)
- Solomani Rim ("Solomani Border" [A13], Harlequin [JTAS12])
- Gvurrdon (AM3)
- Trojan Reach (Egyrn & Pax Rulin [A4])
- Corridor (SA7)

Note that EVERY occurance of the Spinward Marches, or any of its subsectors, ALL agree with S3, EXCEPT for SMC and AM8. SMC was a retcon that made many changes in contradiction to all that came before. Only AM8 was published after that and contained those retcons.

Also note that AM3 (Vargr) is the only Alien Module that contains an entire sector. (AM8 has most of the Darrian subsector. The others have at most a couple of homeworlds.)

This only covers CT sources. This does not address any other era. It also willfully ignores AotI, as it is a crap source.

Of the SEC files I have found on the web, all files for the Spinward Marches are based on the SMC. All files for the Solomani Rim are based on S10. Both have errors. (The most well-known is the screwed up PPG info for Entrope in the Spinward Marches files.)

 

[Plankowner]

Lest we forget, Mongoose will be publishing a NEW Spinward Marches Setting book set in 1105.

As I understand it, S3 will be the source data.

It might be worth waiting a couple of months and using that data since Marc will have approved it and it will be the NEW canon source for the Marches.

 

[jrmapes]

If and only if it is copasetic with the original UWPs, Trade Codes, and such. Thing is, we don't know how much Marc or Mongoose changed things yet again or at all. Obviously if they used Sup 3 as the main source then there is no stellar data - so where did they get it? Is it new, old, borrowed, blue?

Until we have it in hand there is no way to tell. Same can be said for T5. It is going to be a while before I will get to see either one - my gaming budget since the first of the year has went from about $50 a month to $0 a month thanks to gasoline prices going through the roof and everything else following suit.

So that is why I went forward with this instead of waiting. I am getting tired of pulling up something on my computer software in a game that says one thing when the map and the books say something else. Usually as many differences as the number of books that happen to be open at the time.

I know my data won't be perfect but as soon as the allegiance codes are fixed it will be the closest to accuracy and complete data that I have had access to since I started playing way back when - at least to my satisfaction -- and I am not even concerning myself with the wonky worlds at this point. They have been part of the OTU for so long and we have used our magic handwavium on them for so long that as long as the group doesn't mind I won't mind. That is also why I am not adding our fixes to those wonky worlds in the files I am making available. A lot of people like the wonky worlds and would be mightily upset if they downloaded the SEC files on my site and found that I had completely rewritten the UWPs. :devil:

Like I said earlier and on my site, I used the lightest touch possible always defaulting to Sup 3 - the only exception was a couple of entries in the trade codes where I added a code from the SMC making sure it didn't contradict Sup 3 and where I removed a couple trade codes that were in the 1117 data that went against Sup 3 and SMC. Since we (and most groups that I am aware of) use the expanded trade codes I don't think using the SMC for trade code comparison should be too much of an issue unless I have really missed something and the SMC trade codes are really screwed up as well. :nonono:

So at least in the case of the SMC trade codes, if there is a better source please tell me because from what I have seen since starting all of this is that the one thing the SMC did appear to get right was the trade codes.

I may do a strict Sup 3 file later with the unexpanded trade codes but that will be something relegated to the back burner for some time to come.

Jerry

 

[daryen]

The new MGT book is based on the S3 data. As such, this means it is in direct contradiction with SMC and everything that follows. This means that all MT and TNE data for the Spinward Marches has been retconned out of existance. And with Marc Miller's blessing, which is a cool and neat trick.

As for the trade codes, they are all defined by the UWP. So, trying to pull trade codes from SMC and putting them against S3 is pointless. Instead, want you really need to do is get the trade code definitions from B6, examine each UWP in turn, and assign the appropriate code(s) (if any). That is really the only way to be sure you are getting them correct.

 

[jrmapes]

... Instead, want you really need to do is get the trade code definitions from B6, examine each UWP in turn, and assign the appropriate code(s) (if any). That is really the only way to be sure you are getting them correct.

Yup, I have spent most of the day doing just that. Lets just say I'm not having much fun. Heh

 

[Plankowner]

Since MGT doesn't have star data, it is very likely that the new Spinward Marches will not have that data either. Especially since it is being built from S3. This is entirely speculation on my part though.