CT Errata TCS addition - Empty Hexes

[Matt123]

Should have thought of this one much earlier.

TCS Island Cluster Campaign by implication allows jumping to "empty hexes". For example Esperanza can only reach other systems through this means, being limited to J2 and the nearest planet is 3 parsecs away.

So how is an "Empty Hex" treated. Is it treated as "The Outer System" and opposing fleets cannot attack each other. Or is it assumed the jump exit point relies on something large enough to be known to all fleets (a drifting planetoid for example), so any fleets arriving may engage with other fleets present.

To quote Bill "its unlikely I will come up with something new" & this may be answered somewhere. Regardless it needs a clarifying note in the errata.

Cheers
Matt

 

[mike wightman]

Empty hexes are just that - empty.

The CT adventure did bring up the idea of a calibration point - a place in an empty hex ships would aim for so they could conduct business, fuel could be cached etc.

So enemy fleets would find it impossible to intercept in an empty hex unless they had knowledge of the point the Esperanza fleet were aiming for.

Sounds like a job for pc scale espionage.

 

[Eggtooth]

I was pretty sure I'd read that to exit jump a ship has to have a gravity well to target, even in the case of misjumps, though that gravity well may be small such as that of a comet.

 

[robject]

Nope. A gravity well will cause precipitation, but so will travelling the jumped distance.

In other words, if you do a jump-1 into a rift, you won't keep going until you reach the other side. You'll stop at the first gravity well, or 1 parsec, whichever comes first.

 

[aramis]

I was pretty sure I'd read that to exit jump a ship has to have a gravity well to target, even in the case of misjumps, though that gravity well may be small such as that of a comet.

ONLY place that reference exists in GT:IW. It's one of those major FUBAR issues that forces GTIW outside the canon OTU.

 

[mike wightman]

No, it's not.

It was an attempt to reconcile the way ships move in the Imperium and Dark Nebula board games with the history of the OTU.

Prior to the tech breakthrough in DN that allows ships to jump to empty hexes a ship can only jump from system to system. The only way to travel into/through empty hexes is to take years of travel time with real space drives.

 

[aramis]

No, it's not.

It was an attempt to reconcile the way ships move in the Imperium and Dark Nebula board games with the history of the OTU.

Prior to the tech breakthrough in DN that allows ships to jump to empty hexes a ship can only jump from system to system. The only way to travel into/through empty hexes is to take years of travel time with real space drives.

Except that AM Solomani shows the first jump to Barnard's star used calibration points. And implies they discovered they weren't needed BEFORE the 1st ISW.

Reconciling it was unneeded, unprecedented, and doesn't mesh with Actual Traveller.

It was, pure and simple, an eff-up by an author who either didn't know or didn't care, and later tried to justify the eff-up by claiming it was needed. The simple fact that the ship designs tend not to carry enough fuel for multiple jumps is better... and the could do that by citing from T4 about a sudden revolution in fusion circa TIY -30 to justify oversized and/or fuel inefficient power plants, and make it further less likely that they'd carry enough fuel.

Many other ways to have done it without the methodology used in GT:IW.

 

[rancke]

Except that AM Solomani shows the first jump to Barnard's star used calibration points. And implies they discovered they weren't needed BEFORE the 1st ISW.

Wasn't that a brown dwarf they used as a stepping stone?

Reconciling it was unneeded, unprecedented, and doesn't mesh with Actual Traveller.

Unneeded is your opinion. Obviously Jon disagreed.

It was, pure and simple, an eff-up by an author who either didn't know or didn't care, and later tried to justify the eff-up by claiming it was needed.

That I know for a fact is untrue. It was much discussed during the playtest.

The simple fact that the ship designs tend not to carry enough fuel for multiple jumps is better... and the could do that by citing from T4 about a sudden revolution in fusion circa TIY -30 to justify oversized and/or fuel inefficient power plants, and make it further less likely that they'd carry enough fuel.

No, you couldn't. Whatever happened to change changed during the period covered by the Dark Nebula game. There's a rule there which involves the Aslans figuring out a way to do deep space jumps.

Many other ways to have done it without the methodology used in GT:IW.

Now that's interesting. Do tell. Some way to retcon it is sorely needed. Because you're right that it doesn't work.

So go on. Explain why deep space jumps were impossible or at least extremely impractical (Impractical would be better than impossible) during the IW but became possible some time during the Long Night (Around -1100 IIRC, but I'm not sure about the correct date).


Hans

 

[aramis]

Wasn't that a brown dwarf they used as a stepping stone?


Unneeded is your opinion. Obviously Jon disagreed.


That I know for a fact is untrue. It was much discussed during the playtest.


No, you couldn't. Whatever happened to change changed during the period covered by the Dark Nebula game. There's a rule there which involves the Aslans figuring out a way to do deep space jumps.


Now that's interesting. Do tell. Some way to retcon it is sorely needed. Because you're right that it doesn't work.

So go on. Explain why deep space jumps were impossible or at least extremely impractical (Impractical would be better than impossible) during the IW but became possible some time during the Long Night (Around -1100 IIRC, but I'm not sure about the correct date).


Hans

Simply double the needed jump fuel per parsec, and 2J2 is now as impractical for designs as 2J4 for "modern."

Further, it's a better fit to the AM solomani text, as without a different fuel rate, only an idiot would fail to see simply installing a second set of fuel tanks for J2.

Since we have no canonical OTU ships from the era...

And it wouldn't be the first time different eras had different fuel rates... (990 to 1115 uses one set, 1116-1135 another, -30 to ~100 and 1200+ uses a third set... sticking just to GDW & IG sources.)

 

[Matt123]

lol, hate to interupt the discussion... Can I get your views on how to treat empty hexes in TCS.

Should a player be able to engage another fleet found in an empty hex?

 

[rancke]

lol, hate to interupt the discussion... Can I get your views on how to treat empty hexes in TCS.

Should a player be able to engage another fleet found in an empty hex?

If he can find him in the first place, yes. Which would only happen as a result of some form of intelligence gathering. Two fleets (or three or ten) that happened to jump to the same hex in the same week should be assumed not to meet.


Hans

 

[atpollard]

lol, hate to interupt the discussion... Can I get your views on how to treat empty hexes in TCS.

Should a player be able to engage another fleet found in an empty hex?

Hell no. (at least not without learning the exact jump coordinate in advance)

What are the odds of your flying over the North Atlantic to locate someone floating in a life jacket with absolutely no idea where his ship sank except "somewhere between Europe and North America"?

Detection ranges are too small and a parsec is too vast for two fleets to have any meaningful statistical chance of locating each other without help.
(as mentioned earlier, if they did locate each other - via grandfather intervention - then nothing would prevent them from fighting.)

 

[pendragonman]

Blind fighting in empty hexes

IMHO, if one side happened to get ahold of the "doctrinal" target for the other fleet to jump to in an empty hex, and get that information to an attacking fleet in time to meet the target fleet in that hex (meaning no accidental meeting engagement, one side must be acting on intel), then sure it can happen.

The trick is getting all of the following to mesh:

1) The opposing side having a set doctrine for empty hex jumping.
2) The target fleet actually following doctrine on this jump.
3) The aggressor's intel service getting this information in time to act on it.
4) The aggressor's fleet getting movement orders in time to make the intercept.

 

[shadowcat20]

Question,

If the fleet in the empty hex was large enough and the scout ship small enough would it not cause a gravity well and drop the scout out of jump?

T5 has something about ship sizes affecting jump of smaller ships. I figure it would make sense.


Captain we are dropping out of jump..

OK, where are we pilot?

Not sure the stars do not match up........oh hell....large fleet off our bow and it ain't ours.

Incoming.........