CT reading between the UWP

[san*klass]

Slowly getting back into the idea of GM-ing CT again after a thirty year break I have been struggling to deal with what, at first, seemed illogical. Like, for example the many systems in SM with TL's of (sometimes far) less than the interstellar community minimums of TL9-A.
But reading the many posts here from the "CT/LBB only and all you need" crowd, I am slowly starting to appreciate their excellent and enabling point of view.
And so the the real reason for this post. WHY such low TL's in many cases? Well, my first few ideas.
1) Technophobic luddite society.
2) Xenophobic society (yes we may not be very technical but we are not having none of that foreign junk on our world).
3) Almost destroyed in the Long Night and no desire to risk it all again. Keep to internally sustainable TL
4) Seeded by the Ancients and very very slow inventors (eithier socially or lack of industrial metals/minerals on the world).
5) Rulers have a deal with a nearby TLA+ Industrial world to "supply all you need for a good price".
6) Similar to above, but also doled out to good citizens as a motivation to toe the line.
7) Ag world that advertises itself as pure and untainted. Simple food from the past. Back to nature etc. Any tech spoils the image so low TL.
Anyone else got any other ideas they would like to share??

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Remnants from former colonization efforts. Systems may be formally independents, but still rely on high tech from other worlds...
Cultural differences. The Aslan and Kkree have minimum standards for TL on their worlds. The Solomani all get a bump on TL. The Imperium's policy on "not owning the worlds, just the space in between"
Compared to other regions, it is a frontier. If you can call ~600 years of settlement a frontier, but compared the rest of Charted Space...

 

[Timerover51]

I go with the assumption, supported by studying the real world, that to achieve and maintain a certain level of technology requires a minimum population base. My view is that support a Tech Level of 6 or 7 requires a minimum population exponent of 6, preferably 7, while anything higher than 7 requires a population level of about 8.

Generally, I also generate the world characteristics first, and then start adjusting the population roll, Tech Level roll, and star port roll based on those. The more difficult the planet is to survive on, then the population exponent will go down, but the Tech Level will go up, with the planet dependent on outside material to survive, and therefore having some form of valuable export to support the imports.

 

[creativehum]

There are so many variables involved here.

Are you asking about the setting of the Spinward Marches specifically? (And if so, are you using only Supplement 3: The Spinward Marches? Or other books as well?)

Or asking about TL results from Traveller Book 3 for a new setting?

I ask because the nature of and the underlying assumptions of the Spinward Marches is redefined as the Classic Traveller line continues. The answer to your question rests, in part, on which products you are planning to use. Then possibilities and answers can vary dramatically. The Spinward Marches is one example of a setting for RPG play made using the Book 3 rules. Another setting can be made using the Book 3 rules. Each might well have very different answers to the question you are asking.

 

[Selandia]

Beside the vasious objective(pop level...)/subjective (phobic...) factors or combination thereoff

You have to make a IMTU interpretation of the TL as:
Produced locally vs commonly availlable?
to the public in general or to travellers in facilities such as the Starport? I bet Vacc suit are commonly found in the "dollars and dime" storeships on station in asteroid belts, even if they are imported.
The best availlable or the commonly availlable (reason why you have TL trade modifier, TL 14 Vac suit vs the local production TL 10.) for there are always high to low end products.

So the Apparatchick may very well have TL 10 while the peones (and people walking off a ship) could afford only TL4 item and only those are availlable in walk in stores. So what should the UPP be? Your call boss.

Have fun

Selandia

 

[Brandon C]

And so the the real reason for this post. WHY such low TL's in many cases? ?

Because the TL is partly (in some cases, largely) determined by a 1d6 roll.

Why come up with justifications for wildly variable TLs when the authors can't be bothered to do it? I'd just raise most TLs under a 10.

 

[Quint]

I tend to think of it as a conscious policy of the Imperium (and other polities). Rather than creating and maintaining high tech colonies and settlements (which quickly become the target of pirates and raiders and expensive before you have to rebuild them multiple times) a lower TL settlement is generally deemed the most economically viable and sustainable. It's less about a "naturally produced/evolved" TL and more about what permits were granted by the Ministry of Colonization

Plus, with a Darker Imperium in my Proto-Traveller setting, this also means that Imperial military forces have an easier time putting down the odd rebellion or insurrection.

I also posit a vague romanticism for a certain style of settlement, so there is the idea of (for the Imperial nobles associated with the systems) "a simple country estate" rather than a economic and technological powerhouse (which comes with lots of official headaches). So there is a certain push from the folks to keep things "simple" (which also means, not-so-coincidently, that they and their huscarles usually have a significant TL advantage compared to every else).

D.

 

[kilemall]

Besides the social or disasters mentioned, I largely explain it as the economics of the planet- it just doesn't have any resource, food, industry or educational capabilities to either lift it up in TL by it's own bootstraps, or import enough to make up for lack of native productive capacity.

My classic example is the Comstock Lode area of Nevada, which was rich enough to import the finest of everything only seen otherwise in the richest cities. The gold and silver ran out, and the imports stopped.

Take a look around that UWP and use imagination.

Hi pop low starport/tech? Might be the population outgrew/outstripped the capacity to maintain/increase TL and turned inward.

Tainted atmosphere? Maybe it takes all the extra effort and production just to breathe.

Small planet, atmo 4, A starport but low tech? High metallic density, a virulent planetary magnetic field that is very powerful, and that limits general wealth, but there is a desirable export that drives the A starport and the population is effectively slaved to a 'company town/store' setup.

The more sense of unique place that says 'space' you can convey, the better.

Actually, a major subplot IMTU is that everything has been artificially boosted to TL10.

But the strain of supporting a garden world that holds 45% of humanity, that doesn't want to produce industrial items and so many restrictions on biome disruption that the economy is at a standstill, is no longer viable for the star nations to support economically or politically.

So this world is going to eat a TL drop.

Care to think about what happens when an entire planet's economic value drops by at least 10%?

Yep, a real mess.

Other offworld colonies, subsidized past reality and maintaining allegiance, may feel differently when they are told to make it on their own resources, or taxed in line with their costs.

So this TL thing is actually an action and story trigger, proving once again that history has not stopped.

 

[Supplement Four]

There's an extremely good history of the Spinward Marches included in the Traveller Adventure.

It may be duplicate material from the Spinward Marches supplement (not the LBB), but I'm not sure. I think the TA has much more detail.

Your TL's are explained there.

 

[creativehum]

There's an extremely good history of the Spinward Marches included in the Traveller Adventure.

It may be duplicate material from the Spinward Marches supplement (not the LBB), but I'm not sure. I think the TA has much more detail.

Your TL's are explained there.

Thanks for reminding me about this. Going of to read it now.

 

[rhialto]

"Take a look around that UWP and use imagination."

Pretty much sums it up, and the OP is on the right track with his imagined explanations. Anything else is someone else's imaginings.

 

[san*klass]

Thanks to all for your ideas.

To answer one question, I am looking at playing just after the False War in the Spinward Marches. And I am looking at the sort of dark, weaker, small ship, TTB, basic character generation, early Imperium setting (is that Proto Traveller?).

I havent got a starting subsector yet, but Regina or maybe Jewell or District 268 are enticing me. Jewell is putting me off though due to no real substanial Mains to easily wizz around( in case Free Trader is obtained on Mustering out ).

Does any of this affect TL's?

 

[Selandia]

Thanks to all for your ideas.

To answer one question, I am looking at playing just after the False War in the Spinward Marches.
...
District 268 are enticing me...
....

Does any of this affect TL's?

Yes, the higher TL in 268 are goods imported after a long journey from Glisten.
More important, the low value/ton of low tech item (agri prod, hammers and shovels ...) make return cargo of little interest and therefore the round trip questionnable.
Little outbound trade = little purchasing power = few offworld commodities.
The whole problem just agravate itself as trade shrink.

As stated, in 268 local Wealth want, and may get, a mesure of isolationism to avoid their low yield/tech manufacturing bankrupted by import from high TL world. High TL does not only mean high TL item, it also means that low TL item - knife, hammer- get produced cheaper. A TL 9 factory would murder a TL3 blacksmith or even a TL 4 (early steam) factory.

Any odities you need to explain something does not get impaired by "Imperial rules" for 268 offers non Imperial worlds.

268 is out-laying, Imperial interest managed from afar (Glisten).

As communication get harder (because of global setting) every factor above get agravated.

Have fun
Selandia