CT Only: CT Striker book 3 Design Sequence 11 F. Armament p. 25

[snrdg082102]

Evening PDT,

Before I can attempt to determine the tons and price for the Foxhound Atmospheric Fighter in JTAS 14 I need to work through CT Striker Book 3 Design Sequence (DS) 11 Aircraft pp. 24-26.


CT Striker Book 3 DS 11 Aircraft provides examples for each step. My progress was good until the example for Step F Armament on p. 25. In example the fighter is equipped with a TL 7 2-cm 4-barrel gas operated autocannon and a TL 7 Direct Fire Control system. The autocannon is in a fixed mount weighs 0.24 tons and costs Cr10,000.

I tackled the fixed mounting, fire control, missile rails, and bomb racks before working out the number for the autocannon. I was able to match fixed mount, the two launch rails and six bomb racks weights and costs.
The TL 7 Fire Control specifications from Design Sequence Tables (DST) booklet p. 12 are weight .02 tons and price Cr5,000.

Going back to the details in CT Striker Bk. 3 DS 11 Step F I subtracted the AC's weight and cost from the fire control's weight and cost. The result is that the TL 7 2-cm Autocannon is 0.22 tons and costs Cr5,000

Using CT Striker Book 3 DS 3 AC process my numbers work out to be 0.02 tons and Cr1,000 higher than I calculated subtracting the fire control weight and cost.

Design Sequence 3 follows the same process as Design Sequence 2 CPR.

1. Bore size: 2-cm weight 100 kg or 0.1 tons and cost Cr2,000
2. Type: High Velocity weight multiplier 1 and cost multiplier 2
3. Adjusted 2-cm Bore size weight 100 kg and cost Cr4,000
4. Action: Gas-operated weight 100 kg or 0.1 tons and cost Cr400
5. Barrels: 4 with a weight of 40 kg or 0.04 tons and cost Cr1,600

TL 7 2-cm 4-barrel as operated high velocity AC total:
Weight = Bore Size 0.1 + Gas-Operated Action 0.1 + 4 Barrels 0.04 = 0.24 tons
Price = Bore Size 4,000 + Gas-Operated Action 400 + 4 Barrels 1,600 = Cr6,000

Adding up my numbers the total installed weapons weight is 1.06 tons and Cr69,000 which is 0.02 tons and Cr1,000 higher than the total determined in the example.

I think that the weight of the fire control system was accidentally overlooked. If I followed the process for building and AC correctly the cost calculation may have used different numbers.

If anyone has the time could you please verify that my AC calculations are not at fault.

 

[Whipsnade]

Before I can attempt to determine the tons and price for the Foxhound Atmospheric Fighter in JTAS 14...

Before you do anything, you need to determine whether or not Striker was actually used to design that fighter.

Yes, Striker was released in '81. Yes, JTAS #14 released in '82. Yes, JTAS #12 has errata for Striker. And, yes, the Foxhound article is described as a Striker variant. It doesn't necessarily follow, however, that the Foxhound was designed with Striker.

We've plenty of canonical ship designs presented in HG2's USP format that were not designed with HG2. I'll point you at the Gazelle close escort as an example of that.

Much like how your eccentric interpretations of various rules end up leading you on wild goose chases, a "pre" or "semi" Striker design in this case you another fruitless quest.

Vet the design first and spare yourself a lot of agony.

 

[snrdg082102]

Whipsnade,

Your comments have no bearing on answering my question concerning the TL 7 2-cm 4-barrel gas operated AC detailed in the CT Striker Rule Book 3 Design Sequence Step F example.

I would appreciate assistance on answering the question about CT Striker Rule Book 3 Design Sequence 11 Step F and a method for contacting J. D. Webster directly or a way to get a reply from Marc Miller. In the case of Mr. Miller the email I sent to FFE has not been replied to.

 

[Hyphen]

Whipsnade,

Your comments have no bearing on answering my question concerning the TL 7 2-cm 4-barrel gas operated AC detailed in the CT Striker Rule Book 3 Design Sequence Step F example.

I would appreciate assistance on answering the question about CT Striker Rule Book 3 Design Sequence 11 Step F and a method for contacting J. D. Webster directly or a way to get a reply from Marc Miller. In the case of Mr. Miller the email I sent to FFE has not been replied to.

OK, JD's email is in this message from him a couple of weeks back:

"If you need to get a hold of me... best email to use is...

jdwpilot at ix dot netcom dot com

(jdwpilot@...)

You will bounce once off my spam filter if you are new to my lists, send second request as directed by filter and I will get your message and inquiry.

Cheers,

J.D."

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Hyphen,

Thank you for the reply and the address.

OK, JD's email is in this message from him a couple of weeks back:

"If you need to get a hold of me... best email to use is...

jdwpilot at ix dot netcom dot com

(jdwpilot@...)

You will bounce once off my spam filter if you are new to my lists, send second request as directed by filter and I will get your message and inquiry.

Cheers,

J.D."

 

[whartung]

There...there are still people with netcom addresses??

 

[jec10]

Tom,

please let us know on this thread what response you get from JD.

I'm always interested to know the pre-history of Traveller scenarios like this one.

As for your question, running the design through my spreadsheet I get:
Gun Wt 0.22t Price Cr5000
Fire Control Wt 0.02 Price Cr5000

Totals Wt 0.24t Price Cr1000

 

[Whipsnade]

Your comments have no bearing on answering my question...

Actually, they do. If you seemingly can't build the Foxhound's autocannon, you can't build the Foxhound. You need to determine if Striker was actually used to build that fighter or if something Striker-ish was used instead.

Now, what you found may actually be an issue of errata. However, it could also be your usual incomprehension or something as simple as an overlooked rule. I'll point out that jec10 gets different numbers than both you and JTAS #14 meaning there is some confusion at work here.

I would appreciate assistance on answering the question about CT Striker Rule Book 3 Design Sequence 11 Step F and a method for contacting J. D. Webster directly or a way to get a reply from Marc Miller. In the case of Mr. Miller the email I sent to FFE has not been replied to.

The fact neither Mr. Webster can be contacted or that Mr. Miller has replied are answers, answers you may not like but answers nonetheless.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello whartung,

There...there are still people with netcom addresses??

According to Hyphen the netcom addresses must still exist. I did send a test email which so far has not been returned. I'll try sending my question about the Foxhound tomorrow unless I get a message back that my first email was not delivered.

 

[Piper]

As for your question, running the design through my spreadsheet I get:
Gun Wt 0.22t Price Cr5000
Fire Control Wt 0.02 Price Cr5000

Totals Wt 0.24t Price Cr1000

Shouldn't that be: Cr10,000?

If so, that seems to match the original example:

The autocannon is in a fixed mount weighs 0.24 tons and costs Cr10,000.

 

[Piper]

...CT Striker Book 3 DS 11 Aircraft provides examples for each step. In example the fighter is equipped with a TL 7 2-cm 4-barrel gas operated autocannon and a TL 7 Direct Fire Control system. The autocannon is in a fixed mount weighs 0.24 tons and costs Cr10,000.

Tom, are you saying that the Foxhound is using the autocannon example as shown in the Striker design sequence? I apologize for asking but I don't have the materials handy.

Going back to the details in CT Striker Bk. 3 DS 11 Step F I subtracted the AC's weight and cost from the fire control's weight and cost. The result is that the TL 7 2-cm Autocannon is 0.22 tons and costs Cr5,000

Can you provide the specific rule that says to subtract fire control weight and cost? Fair use should apply subject to moderator approval.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello jec10,

Tom,

please let us know on this thread what response you get from JD.

I'm always interested to know the pre-history of Traveller scenarios like this one.

I will let you know what information I get back on the Foxhound.

As for your question, running the design through my spreadsheet I get:
Gun Wt 0.22t Price Cr5000
Fire Control Wt 0.02 Price Cr5000

Totals Wt 0.24t Price Cr1000

Thank you for the table I may be on the trail of where I went wrong for the weight, unfortunately my price is still out to lunch.

Is the a possibility that I can get a copy of your spreadsheet please?

Maybe looking at your spreadsheet will help me figure out where my math is wrong.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Whipsnade,

Actually, they do. If you seemingly can't build the Foxhound's autocannon, you can't build the Foxhound. You need to determine if Striker was actually used to build that fighter or if something Striker-ish was used instead.

No your comments on the Foxhound have no bearing since I mentioned that prior to working on the Foxhound I was going through CT Striker Rule Book 3 Design Sequence 11 pp. 24-26. Looking over the specifications the only information I have is that the Foxhound has a TL 7 FC which means I that anything I construct will not actually be the Foxhound unless I'm extremely lucky. That being said at least I will be able to note that the cost for the bare bone specifications used for small craft being carried is based on something more than a hand wave.

The Foxhound has a listed weight of 20 metric tons, or that is what I understand is being measured in Design Sequence 11. For the carried small craft entry the tons I will try to determine is the a mount of space required to carry a Foxhound.

Now, what you found may actually be an issue of errata. However, it could also be your usual incomprehension or something as simple as an overlooked rule. I'll point out that jec10 gets different numbers than both you and JTAS #14 meaning there is some confusion at work here.

The numbers that jec10 have does match the numbers for Design Sequence 11 Aircraft Step F which you would have realized had you bothered to read the post or made the effort to check CT Striker Rule Book 3 Design Sequence 11. Again this is not about the Foxhound of which you are fixated on.

In this case I would greatly appreciate your refraining from taking cheap shots because of my attempts of learning why a combat pilot in the real world can control two or more different weapon systems when Traveller design guidelines only allows a pilot to operate one when a sandcaster is not one of the two weapons systems installed. So far the answer is because the rules say so and that in the 57th or whatever Century that the Traveller universe is set-in is different from today.

So far I have determined, with the help of jec10, that I made a math mistake for the weight of the TL 2-cm AC used by the example in Design Sequence 11 Aircraft.

If you cannot provide positive help I am asking you to please keep your snide comments to yourself.

Finally, since you have a problem with me please contact me via email to address them not on the forum.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Piper,

Shouldn't that be: Cr10,000?

If so, that seems to match the original example:

Looks like the web gremlins changed jec10's Totals Wt 0.24t Price Cr1000. I'm sure the original was Totals Wt 0.24t Price Cr10,000.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello again Piper,

Tom, are you saying that the Foxhound is using the autocannon example as shown in the Striker design sequence? I apologize for asking but I don't have the materials handy.

My apologies for the confusion. The Foxhound uses a 6-barrel AC without identifying the bore size.

Can you provide the specific rule that says to subtract fire control weight and cost? Fair use should apply subject to moderator approval.

Here is what I tried saying and failed.

The example indicates that the specifications for the TL 7 2-cm 4-barrel gas-operated autocannon included the specification for a TL 7 Direct Fire Control.

To determine the weight and cost of the TL 7 2-cm 4-barrel gas-operated autocannon without using Design Sequence 3 I went to Design Sequence 8 that uses the Direct Fire Control Table found on p. 12 of the Design Sequence Tables Booklet.

(0.24 ton the total weight for the AC + FC) - TL 7 FC weight of 0.02 means that the AC weighs 0.22 tons. Doing the same thing with the cost has the AC price as CR5,000.

To check that the TL 7 2-cm 4 barrel gas-operated high velocity AC weighs 0.22 tons and with a cost of Cr5,000.

My numbers were off and after four different attempts I came to the forum for assistance. With the inputs from you and jec10 my math is at fault. I have been able to figure out the weight, but I'm still working on the cost.

Thank you both or your help.