Dinra Patrol Craft

[Rigel Stardin]

I used HGS Beta to create this design for an upcoming thread in the File Library. I would like to hear your opinion on the design.

Ship: Dinra
Class: Dinra
Type: Patrol Craft
Architect: Tomas Altria
Tech Level: 12

USP
PC-3325A31-300000-10000-0 MCr 469.480 360 Tons
Bat Bear 1 Crew: 6
Bat 1 TL: 12

Fuel: 108 EP: 36 Agility: 5 Pulse Lasers

Architects Fee: MCr 4.695 Public Domain Fee: MCr 1000 Cost in Quantity: MCr 375.584

Detailed Description: (Homebrewed Design)

HULL
360.000 tons standard, 5,040.000 cubic meters, Cylinder Configuration

CREW*
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers and 2 Gunners

ENGINEERING*
Jump-2, 2 5G Maneuvering Drives, Power plant-10, 36.000 EP, Agility 5

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/3 Computer

HARDPOINTS
2 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
2 Single Pulse Laser Turrets organized into 1 Battery (Factor-1)

DEFENCES
Armored Hull (Factor-3)

FUEL
108 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
No Fuel Scoop or Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
6 Staterooms, 0 Ton Cargo, 5 Tons of Waste Space

COST
MCr 474.175 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 4.695), MCr 375.584 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
78 Weeks Singly, 62 Weeks in Quantity

DESIGN CHANGES (*)
Reduced Engineers from 5 to 2 (On this ship the engineers only monitor ships systems and can do only minor repairs), got rid of medic and added second gunner. Added second drive to match design. With both drives running it should produce 5 Gs of thrust.

COMMENTS:
The vessel original design was created by Tomas Altria. He had been given the task of creating a customs patrol craft. This vessel was to be lightly armed and used in systems where the threat of armed conflicted was low. It had to have enough speed to incept merchant vessels and enough fuel to remain on station for several days.

 

[shield]

you are seriously under gunned, you could mount 3 triple turrets, so use them, 1 triple with Missile racks and 1 triple with sandcasters would give you a rounded weapons layout.

Why are you carrying two M5 drives, you only need 1, and your PP is much to big. You need 5 factors of PP for your M drive, and another one PP factor to power your 2 lasers and computer. This will free up a lot of space and allows a full crew to be carried.

Add in fuel scoops and purification plant they are very useful to keep on station. your ship will have to return to base every 4 weeks to top up on fuel.

You might want to add a small craft and some troops if you are doing boarding actions. Troops use the small craft (20tn launch) to conduct the inspections. This stops you being boarded when you pull alongside.

cheers
richard

 

[Rigel Stardin]

There is a point to this madness as will be revealed when I create the library File.

I'm well aware that the vessel is way under gunned. As stated, this is homebrewed. as I stated before, I draw these vessels first then using my homebrewed method to give the vessel, it's range and duration. Jump-2 is equavilent to 1 light year per day. The vessel has two manuvering drives while HGS gives it only one. HGS places the tonage with all components at 360, my design is 330 tons.

Therefore some components have been inflated to make up for elements which HGS can't provide for me.

I'm still refining the design as well and will most likely use User Defined elements to round out the design and get it loser to my tonage...

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Updated with user defined elements.

Ship: Dinra
Class: Dinra
Type: Patrol Craft
Architect: Tomas Altria
Tech Level: 12

USP
PC-3325731-400000-10000-0 MCr 365.351 330 Tons
Bat Bear 1 Crew: 6
Bat 1 TL: 12

Fuel: 89.100 EP: 23.100 Agility: 5 Pulse Lasers

Architects Fee: MCr 3.654
Public Domain Fee: MCr .001
Cost in Quantity: MCr 292.281


Detailed Description (Homebrewed)

HULL
330.000 tons standard, 4,620.000 cubic meters, Cylinder Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers, and 2 Gunners

ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 2 5G Maneuver, Power plant-7, 23.100 EP, Agility 5

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/3 Computer

HARDPOINTS
2 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
2 Single Pulse Laser Turrets organized into 1 Battery (Factor-1)

DEFENCES
Armored Hull (Factor-4)

CRAFT
None

FUEL
89.100 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
MISCELLANEOUS
6 Staterooms, 8.500 Tons of Waste Space

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
1 Galley (4.500 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 2.700), 2 Storages (4.500 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 2.700), 1 Lounge (4.500 tons, Crew 0, Cost MCr 2.700), 2 Side Scan Arrays (3.500 tons, Crew 0, 0.500 Energy Point, Cost MCr 2.100)

COST
MCr 369.005 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 3.654 and Public Domain fee of MCR .001), MCr 292.281 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
74 Weeks Singly, 59 Weeks in Quantity

DESIGN CHANGES (*)
Reduced Engineers from 4 to 2 (On this ship the engineers only monitor ships systems and can do only minor repairs), got rid of medic and added second gunner. Added second drive to match design. With both drives running it should produce 5 Gs of thrust.

COMMENTS:
The vessel original design was created by Tomas Altria. He had been given the task of creating a customs patrol craft. This vessel was to be lightly armed and used in systems where the threat of armed conflicted was low. It had to have enough speed to incept merchant vessels and enough fuel to remain on station for several days.

 

[Matt123]

Just some random thoughts, in no particular order and to be ignored as you see fit.

I'm confused over the drives thing. The listing says you have two 5G drives. But the text states it takes both MD's to get 5G, implying you have two 2.5G drives.

I'm not phased by the lack of hardpoints. In part because the computer size (3) limits this crafts use to small merchants and pleasure craft. Two turrets is fine to handle generally compliant traffic, which should be acknowledged, is the job description you have given it.

I assume the two gunners is a mistake to be rectified, as you have only one battery. If a later modification creates two separate batteries, the two gunners can double bunk. Its unlikely tho' that a custom ship will up-arm, it'll just call the local Navy.

Whilst on that topic, all crew bar the captain, can double bunk.

No passenger space for joint operations with Police, Navy, Army, Marines, IRIS, Homeland security, Bio-security, Judiciary, Ministers, Media, etc, etc.

Any "periods on station" would be hampered by the lack of engineers and the need to head back to base every few days/weeks for the maintenance not being supplied by the missing on board engineers. I'd reconsider this as it prevents essentially straying far from the main homeworld.

Given the task of the vessel, Customs Patrol in compliant systems, it may be much more cost effective to produce the craft without jump drives and instead pay to have it shipped as cargo to its destination. Or perhaps only give it J1 drives.

A lot of space is dedicated to a Galley, Lounge, etc. But no brig or cargo hold for contraband or rescue equipment for aiding ships in distress.

A lifeboat would be a good idea. Only needs 10 ton of space & doubles as a runabout. Its embarrassing to governments to have to submit to inquiries questioning the lack of safety equipment for hardworking dedicated government service personal, put in harms way in under-gunned ships. Lifeboats can be a lot smaller than 10 ton.

Cheers!

 

[Rigel Stardin]

I'm going to have too post the design to clear up some of the misconceptions here.

Some of the details I've suggest, come from my concept of designing starships. Its roots are in Traveller but I use Hyperspace Generators. From using HGS, I use less fuel but have bigger reactors to power the ship. As stated before, Hardpoints aren't describe too by tonnage but what I can fit into the hull, I'm designing. Stateroom are also larger than Traveller designs.

As far as Maintance and ratio of engineers go, my thoughts go like this. Ship goes out on patrol and doesn't recieve any damage routine maintance is done back at port by the support team. Engineers onboard a starship monitor and repair minor, and only in emergencies do the engineers (with the help of the crew) repair major damage. Overhauls are done twice a year at port. I view this as crosstraining simular to what the navy does on mordern submarines.

The rest I'm just going to have to explain in a File Library, check out the Coti Build there. It has some of my concepts laid out.

 

[Rigel Stardin]

This shows how I come up with tonnage for a vessel. I used the quick method to establish that the patrol craft was 330 tons.

Dinra Construction sheet:

1 Lounge: 4.5 tons
2 Galley: 4.5 tons
Side Scan Array: 3.5 tons x 2 =7 tons
Staterooms: 4 tons x 6 = 24 tons
Storage: 4.5 tons x 2 = 9 tons
Airlocks: 4.5 tons X 2 = 9 tons
Conference Room: 4.5 tons
Computer Room: 4.5 tons
Bridge: 12.5 tons
Avionics / Navigational Array: 12.5 Tons
Access Ladders: 1.8 tons x 4 = 7.2 ton
Weapon Control Station: 4.5 tons x 2 = 9 tons
Life support system: 14 tons
Engineering space 1: 14 tons
Engineering space 2: 16.4 tons
Reactor: 16.4 tons
Engine Space: 21 tons x 2 = 42 tons
Fuel Tanks: 30 tons x 2 = 60 tons
Fuel: 60 tons

Total Tonnage: 331 tons

Quick method:

Using 1.5 by 1.5 by 3 meter squares.

Main body: 42 x 6.4 = 268.4 squares Divided by 2 = 134.4 tons x two decks =268.4 tons
Fuel tanks: 3.8 x 14.9 = 56.62 squares Divided by 2 = 28.31 tons times two fuel tanks = 56.62

Total tonnage =325.02 tons round up = 330 tons.

 

[stealth]

Just some strategy points:

Make it configuration 6, saucer. That way it's aerodynamic and can go underwater. It greatly expands your basing options (and add fuel scoops and a purifier). It's not expensive at all.

Also, level-5 armor means nukes can't cause crew deaths, so up the armor level 2 points if you expect to get into a real firefight.

Finally, the best defense a ship can have is a good computer. Your TL-12, so spare the expense for a model/6.

 

[Gojifam58]

I've always taken a " do your own thing" approach to ship design, considering some of the concepts tried in our own late 19th century navel thinking that even led to a circular battleship from the Russians. The real proof of concept really shows up when it's tried in the role it was meant for, which most "original" fail terribly. Since this design is really meant for civilian patrol and anti-piracy patrols, in pairs hopefully, it should do just fine. Military deployment is clearly out of the question, but that really doesn't seem to part of the original concept to begin with so not a problem.

The only real question Ive ever had is the use of "fractional" tonnage i.e. this little corvette coming in at 330Dt. Personally, I would have either dropped it to 300Dts, to keep it from delusions of grandeur, or to 400Dts simply to make the math and size category easier, and there an extra hardpoint to boot.

But to each their own.

 

[Whipsnade]

... considering some of the concepts tried in our own late 19th century navel thinking that even led to a circular battleship from the Russians.

While they're often trotted out as an example of "What The F*ck Were They Thinking?", those designs were more the result of treaty restrictions than stupidity.

For a few decades after the Crimean War, Russia wasn't allowed to maintain a battlefleet in the Black Sea but still had a large coastline, several rivers, the Azov Sea, Kerch straits, and other points to defend. Enter the often laughed at circular battleships. They were meant to be floating forts which could also move when they had to and they filled that rather odd, rather limited, treaty-created role somewhat well.

Circular designs can perform very well if designed properly. The Romanovs even had a very well regarded imperial yacht which was circular, albeit with a conventional bow and stern.

 

[Carlobrand]

This is confusing. You're clearly trying to use High Guard rules to create something specific from some setting or another, I don't know what. But then you're tossing out the rules where it suits you. If you want the ship in your universe, put the ship in your universe and to the devil with the High Guard rules.

However, I have to agree: the ship in a Traveller setting is rather badly undergunned. The stock Book-2 400 dT patrol cruiser offers more for a much lower cost; even allowing that it doesn't have armor, it's likely to beat your model based on superior firepower. Unless there's some specific house rule in your universe that makes the traditional design invalid, yer gonna have trouble marketing that new beastie to the local worlds.

 

[Whipsnade]

This is confusing. You're clearly trying to use High Guard rules to create something specific from some setting or another, I don't know what.

Rigel's setting uses a different FTL drive, many other different technologies, and many other different assumptions than the OTU or any other Traveller-derived settings. Also, while he's provided a few details regarding his setting's technologies, we know very little about them.

Sadly, the amount of divergence between Rigle's setting and Traveller is so great that his designs and deckplans, as wonderful as they are, are of very limited utility for Traveller.

 

[Rigel Stardin]

I use Hyperspace generators instead of Jump drives (1 light year per day).

My ship designs are based on 1.5 by 1.5 squares, which I derive the tonnage from. Fuel consumption is a homebrewed method.

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Gallery/index.php?n=1257

This is an example of the differences between my design and HGS.

My ships are larger than Travellers for the most part.

I design them as a hobby and wish to share them with this community.

How you use them and what alteration you make is up to you.

As far as the Dinra is concerned, I have the other designs drawn up but haven't completed the write up due to health issues. Maybe in a month I'll have the full write up complete...

 

[Rigel Stardin]

IF you're interested in how I design my ships:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=22557

This is a detail explaination on construction.