Downpayment

[Supplement Four]

Another "hmmmm" question...

In your game, how do your PCs come up with the downpayment (millions of credits) for a ship?

Let's say a ship wasn't rolled for in chargen. How would PCs IYTU get the downpayment?

IMTU, I usually set up mutually beneficial subsidizing deals between free trader captains and companies. These deals can be quite complex, or very simple...

For example, an interstellar company may have mining operations in three different nearby asteroid belts of three different star systems. This company is shipping items in between the four systems all the time, and, as we all know, shipping is expensive.

Companies like this, IMTU, will make contracts with free trader captains, paying downpayments in return for free shipping privledges.

Just how much "free shipping privledges" depends on the company involved and the bargaining skill of the captain, but at least twice the downpayment cost is typical minimum.

For example, if a company sheds out 20,000,000 Cr for a ship downpayment for a free trader captain, then the company may require 60,000,000 Cr in free shipping services over X amount of years.

This allows the company to save shipping costs in the long run, and it allows free trader captains, who might not otherwise get their mits on the capital for a ship downpayment, to become ship captains in the first place.

Sometimes, companies put time requirements in their contracts with free trader captains: Maybe the company above requires at least 375,000 Cr in free shipping every three standard months, over a 40 year period (bringing the total to 60MCr).

Besides makeing the background to my universe "believeable" with things like this, I like how this also allows the GM to "guide" a game with such tactics.

Recurring NPCs can evolve out of this. A source for "jobs" for the free trader. The GM can keep the PCs hemmed into a certain spatial area (maybe a star cluster) because they can't get too far away before contract requirements force them to return to a specified area to service their contract holder.

Not only is this a story device that GMs can use in their campaigns, but it also serves as a GM tool to somewhat control PC actions.

What other ways do you handle the heft Traveller ship downpayments in your game?

 

[Supplement Four]

Another "hmmmm" question...

In your game, how do your PCs come up with the downpayment (millions of credits) for a ship?

Let's say a ship wasn't rolled for in chargen. How would PCs IYTU get the downpayment?

IMTU, I usually set up mutually beneficial subsidizing deals between free trader captains and companies. These deals can be quite complex, or very simple...

For example, an interstellar company may have mining operations in three different nearby asteroid belts of three different star systems. This company is shipping items in between the four systems all the time, and, as we all know, shipping is expensive.

Companies like this, IMTU, will make contracts with free trader captains, paying downpayments in return for free shipping privledges.

Just how much "free shipping privledges" depends on the company involved and the bargaining skill of the captain, but at least twice the downpayment cost is typical minimum.

For example, if a company sheds out 20,000,000 Cr for a ship downpayment for a free trader captain, then the company may require 60,000,000 Cr in free shipping services over X amount of years.

This allows the company to save shipping costs in the long run, and it allows free trader captains, who might not otherwise get their mits on the capital for a ship downpayment, to become ship captains in the first place.

Sometimes, companies put time requirements in their contracts with free trader captains: Maybe the company above requires at least 375,000 Cr in free shipping every three standard months, over a 40 year period (bringing the total to 60MCr).

Besides makeing the background to my universe "believeable" with things like this, I like how this also allows the GM to "guide" a game with such tactics.

Recurring NPCs can evolve out of this. A source for "jobs" for the free trader. The GM can keep the PCs hemmed into a certain spatial area (maybe a star cluster) because they can't get too far away before contract requirements force them to return to a specified area to service their contract holder.

Not only is this a story device that GMs can use in their campaigns, but it also serves as a GM tool to somewhat control PC actions.

What other ways do you handle the heft Traveller ship downpayments in your game?

 

[Whipsnade]

Ken,

Along with the options you outlined, I also used a 'flipped' subsidized contract.

According to TTA, some subbies fly a certain route for a certain period and then get 'time off'. The crew can take the ship 'off route' during this period in search of commerical opportunities of their own. All that is required is that they return to the route in question by a stated time.

IMTU I 'flipped' that relationship. I figured on two things; (1) that a route needed to be covered during a subbies' 'off time' and (B) that the corporations and/or governments that own/operate subbies are going to upgrade their equipment every so often. The events play out like this:

- The players are flying a subbie
- The owners announce an upgrade, the current 50-year-old subbie will be replaced.
- The owners approach the players with a question. Do they want to keep flying the new subbie along their old route or are they interested in purchasing the old subbie?
- If the answer to the purchasing half of the question is yes, the owners present a deal. They'll assist with a downpayment or wave a downpayment entirely IF the players agree to fill in on the new subbies' route when that vessel takes it's time off.

The result gives the players their own ship at a lower buy-in price and gives the GM a few more 'strings' with which to 'steer' the campaign. The GM, in the form of the seller, can further sweeten the deal with things like guaranteed cargos, maintenance support, fuel vouchers, and the like.

Just how much the players can negotiate out of the seller can be an adventure in itself.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Ken,

Along with the options you outlined, I also used a 'flipped' subsidized contract.

According to TTA, some subbies fly a certain route for a certain period and then get 'time off'. The crew can take the ship 'off route' during this period in search of commerical opportunities of their own. All that is required is that they return to the route in question by a stated time.

IMTU I 'flipped' that relationship. I figured on two things; (1) that a route needed to be covered during a subbies' 'off time' and (B) that the corporations and/or governments that own/operate subbies are going to upgrade their equipment every so often. The events play out like this:

- The players are flying a subbie
- The owners announce an upgrade, the current 50-year-old subbie will be replaced.
- The owners approach the players with a question. Do they want to keep flying the new subbie along their old route or are they interested in purchasing the old subbie?
- If the answer to the purchasing half of the question is yes, the owners present a deal. They'll assist with a downpayment or wave a downpayment entirely IF the players agree to fill in on the new subbies' route when that vessel takes it's time off.

The result gives the players their own ship at a lower buy-in price and gives the GM a few more 'strings' with which to 'steer' the campaign. The GM, in the form of the seller, can further sweeten the deal with things like guaranteed cargos, maintenance support, fuel vouchers, and the like.

Just how much the players can negotiate out of the seller can be an adventure in itself.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[sid6.7]

ZILLIONS of answers...

generally i would think, so that its not TOO easy
is you have them "pirate" one....or work for a guy
and he dies at some point in the adventure they
take over after a bloody fight...or the ship is
the wage for the completion of the adventure or
you take your cash and speculate as a group up
to a trader downpayment...

 

[sid6.7]

ZILLIONS of answers...

generally i would think, so that its not TOO easy
is you have them "pirate" one....or work for a guy
and he dies at some point in the adventure they
take over after a bloody fight...or the ship is
the wage for the completion of the adventure or
you take your cash and speculate as a group up
to a trader downpayment...

 

[aramis]

In most cases, IMTU, those who want to buy a ship hire space for speculation... and it only takes one big score to make a down.

 

[aramis]

In most cases, IMTU, those who want to buy a ship hire space for speculation... and it only takes one big score to make a down.

 

[MR TEK]

We had a similar discussion recently, on another tread. (sorry, I don’t recall the thread.)

I suggested a variation.

Either as prior history or as the early part of the game, a small merchant line has had the players crewing a subbie.

They carry Cargo for the subbie route and have space for a certain amount of spec cargo. Either each jump, or time away from the route.

The merchant line holds contracts for each player, and they can essentially buy their way out, and in the process purchase the ship at what ever amount the merchant company chooses to depreciate it for.

This leaves the players with an older ship; either paid off or with tiny payments compared a new ship off the ways.

It also leaves them with contacts within the merchant company, and all along their old route, and social obligations from the company to help them out and to the company if they need help.

Not necessarily formal obligations, just an expectation that we can come into port, and warehouse at a discount, birth at6 a discount, possibly even maintenance and repairs, and maybe even using the company’s broker at a discount.

In return, if the company needs extra hands, they might contact the players, and might even hire them occasionally as troubleshooters.

Finally both sides can warn each other about dangers, (you guys hear about the pirates four jumps over? Real bad, I would stay away…) or toss opportunities back and forth.

You wind up with a campaign where the players are deeply involved in what happens with loyalties and ties, and sometimes even divided loyalties, as opposed to outsiders that you have to prod to get involved.

Now the players truly can chose there own course, but each choice has consequences. Jack someone in the company around, and they won’t chase you down, but suddenly they no longer are willing to let you store in there warehouse.

Last year, if you were short a load, Steve would have something waiting that he would through your way. Now Steve no longer has time to talk when you are in port, and “sorry guys, everything on my dock is already committed.”

It solves how to get a ship, and leaves the players active participants in the campaign, with hooks to adventures without the heavy handed approach that this is the job they are offered, and they have to take it.

 

[MR TEK]

We had a similar discussion recently, on another tread. (sorry, I don’t recall the thread.)

I suggested a variation.

Either as prior history or as the early part of the game, a small merchant line has had the players crewing a subbie.

They carry Cargo for the subbie route and have space for a certain amount of spec cargo. Either each jump, or time away from the route.

The merchant line holds contracts for each player, and they can essentially buy their way out, and in the process purchase the ship at what ever amount the merchant company chooses to depreciate it for.

This leaves the players with an older ship; either paid off or with tiny payments compared a new ship off the ways.

It also leaves them with contacts within the merchant company, and all along their old route, and social obligations from the company to help them out and to the company if they need help.

Not necessarily formal obligations, just an expectation that we can come into port, and warehouse at a discount, birth at6 a discount, possibly even maintenance and repairs, and maybe even using the company’s broker at a discount.

In return, if the company needs extra hands, they might contact the players, and might even hire them occasionally as troubleshooters.

Finally both sides can warn each other about dangers, (you guys hear about the pirates four jumps over? Real bad, I would stay away…) or toss opportunities back and forth.

You wind up with a campaign where the players are deeply involved in what happens with loyalties and ties, and sometimes even divided loyalties, as opposed to outsiders that you have to prod to get involved.

Now the players truly can chose there own course, but each choice has consequences. Jack someone in the company around, and they won’t chase you down, but suddenly they no longer are willing to let you store in there warehouse.

Last year, if you were short a load, Steve would have something waiting that he would through your way. Now Steve no longer has time to talk when you are in port, and “sorry guys, everything on my dock is already committed.”

It solves how to get a ship, and leaves the players active participants in the campaign, with hooks to adventures without the heavy handed approach that this is the job they are offered, and they have to take it.

 

[Supplement Four]

Aramis and Mr. TeK,

Good stuff...on both your posts. I love the "richness" of the universe it creates.

I'll admit, I hadn't thought of going that way (spec cargos for downpayment money), but I like it. Especialy Mr. TeK's extended idea.

I've never really had any players interested in speculative trade in a Traveller game before (my games tend to be so "story" and "campaign" focussed, they typically don't have time to do anything while they're in the "thick of it"), and if I ever did do spec trading, I'd probably use (at least start with) the rules right out of CT.

But...

I would worry about spec trading making the PC's too wealthy too fast. I mean, if it's that easy, why isn't everyone a millionaire?

Spec trading has to be difficult in order to be successful at it. It can't be used as an immediate crutch when PCs need lots of cash: "Hey! We need some BattleDress, and this dude in the black market has got some! Let's raise some quick money spec trading and get it!"

It can't be that simple.

I'm thinking that you've got to be lucky--hear just the right tip--be in the right place at the right time--in order to be successful quickly doing spec trade.

There's got to be some GM controls on it, as Mr. TeK suggests.

Otherwise, spec trading will unrealistically unbalance a game.

 

[Supplement Four]

Aramis and Mr. TeK,

Good stuff...on both your posts. I love the "richness" of the universe it creates.

I'll admit, I hadn't thought of going that way (spec cargos for downpayment money), but I like it. Especialy Mr. TeK's extended idea.

I've never really had any players interested in speculative trade in a Traveller game before (my games tend to be so "story" and "campaign" focussed, they typically don't have time to do anything while they're in the "thick of it"), and if I ever did do spec trading, I'd probably use (at least start with) the rules right out of CT.

But...

I would worry about spec trading making the PC's too wealthy too fast. I mean, if it's that easy, why isn't everyone a millionaire?

Spec trading has to be difficult in order to be successful at it. It can't be used as an immediate crutch when PCs need lots of cash: "Hey! We need some BattleDress, and this dude in the black market has got some! Let's raise some quick money spec trading and get it!"

It can't be that simple.

I'm thinking that you've got to be lucky--hear just the right tip--be in the right place at the right time--in order to be successful quickly doing spec trade.

There's got to be some GM controls on it, as Mr. TeK suggests.

Otherwise, spec trading will unrealistically unbalance a game.

 

[atpollard]

Ultimately the GM controls every aspect of his game, but the CT rules for speculation do favor the characters making money. The detailed cargo system from The Traveller Book is very generous to the PC willing to wait for the right cargo (lots of DM for purchase price) and ship it to the right world(lots of DM for sale price). The Merchant Prince system has fewer specific modifiers but a greater bulk of profitable cargo.

 

[atpollard]

Ultimately the GM controls every aspect of his game, but the CT rules for speculation do favor the characters making money. The detailed cargo system from The Traveller Book is very generous to the PC willing to wait for the right cargo (lots of DM for purchase price) and ship it to the right world(lots of DM for sale price). The Merchant Prince system has fewer specific modifiers but a greater bulk of profitable cargo.

 

[aramis]

Supp4: I wish the speculation sans ship was my own idea... but it isn't. JTAS article "Speculation without a starship", also in Best of JTAS.

 

[aramis]

Supp4: I wish the speculation sans ship was my own idea... but it isn't. JTAS article "Speculation without a starship", also in Best of JTAS.