Dual Ship 400-ton design

[FrancoisUldry]

Hi all,

I just had a weird idea.

You build a starhip, 200 tons with no maneuvers drives, but with jump capacity for 400 tons.

You build a space ship, 200 tons with maneuver drive capacity for 400 tons.

You equip the jump ship with a docking station, streamlined, for 200 tons.

You got a dual starship.

It costs 20 tons of bridge space, but gives the benefit of high maneuvers with the space ship.

You actually also need 2 computers, so you loose also some space there.

Any thoughts welcome.

It would actually work better as soon as you hit the 1000 tons limit times 2 like this you do not lose the space needed for the bridges requirement.

I kind of like the idea. I think it's a design that my players will meet in a pirating role.

High maneuvers, if you build the power plants smartly, high agility, dual turrets. (the jump ship has maybe only the strict minimum).

Francois

 

[salamander]

Originally posted by Fu:
Hi all,

I just had a weird idea.

Not that weird. Check out the Rhino Hunter long range scout.

 

[FrancoisUldry]

I actually tried to build that design at TL 11 (T20) with a jump 1 drive.
It does work, while being rather expensive.

It is not economically viable as the space required for the double bridge is too valuable to be wasted in a Trader configuration.

With proper finances, it becomes a nice design for a lab ship. I will build it and post it, if I find the time.

Regards,
Francois

 

[far-trader]

By the way, the Rhino Hunter mentioned above by Nick Bradbeer has also been beautifully rendered with deckplans by Scarecrow (who haunts these boards on occasion). He also has done a Scout that is very sweet. Check them out here (click the RPG's link). The Rhino Hunter is the butt ugly beautiful one

Oh, and Scarcrow's work is not meant to intimidate anyone, I merely offer it as a well done job, a bar to aim for if you will, though I can never hope to come close myself

 

[Tobias]

Fuel.

The 400-ton combined ship needs 120 tons of fuel for say a Jump-3. The 200-ton Jump module cant fetch any. Ergo the 200 ton maneuver module must devote 60% of itself to carrying jump fuel.

Sorry to be blunt, but this pretty much shoots your idea.

Regards,

Tobias

 

[FrancoisUldry]

I have given more thoughts about that.

I would do it that way :

100 ton Jump Module
Containing a jump-1 drive, 40-ton of Fuel, a TL-7 purification unit, 1 hardpoint, a bridge

Left 25 tons

a 300 tons main ship
Containing a maneuver-2 drive, powerplant, the cabins and cargo and a docking module non-streamlined (30tons, as per T20 rulebook).

When you want to jump, you refuel the module using drop-tanks and fuel scoops, you feed the fuel to the module which is then purified.

You dock into the module, program your jump.

I would allow it in my game.

The gain in maneuver and the extra power due to the smaller size is offset by the loss of 30 tons for the docking module.

It is worth it only from 1000-tons onward, with a big jump module. As like this you transform your undocked ship into a nimble and fast ship.

(1000 jump 1000 ship).

Then it's up to you to allow it in your game or not.

It is technically possible and valid on paper.

With a dual 1000-tons, the docking module can actually put inside the jump unit like this you save space were you need it.

Francois

 

[FrancoisUldry]

And you end up with a Battle Rider design !

Dumb me

And I thought that it was original LOL...

So much for the design can't work attitude also...

Francois

 

[Tobias]

No you didn't. A Battle Tender does have a maneuver drive. And a Battle Tender is a large ship carrying a smaller one. Not vice versa.

The simple thing is: If you have to carry around the space-eating jump fuel anyway, you can as well carry around the tiny jump drive as well.

In fact, the only ship I know of without maneuver drives is the X-Boat. And that's because it really doesn't need them, since it always operates within a framework of tenders.

For all other ships, not including even a 1G maneuver drive is folly. It consumes very little resources, and gives you flexibility at low-low prices.

Regards,

Tobias

 

[FrancoisUldry]

But my point is to avoid carrying the huge jump drive unit(s)

The starship docks into the jump drive

The jump drive does not have any accomodations.

Anyway it's just an idea

Francois

 

[Pwyll]

here's a thought:

Modular Trader
200 ton Jump-3 12 months Unstreamlined TL 9

Modules are custom built, have a base cost of 5 MCr (the equivalent of 2 standard 100 ton hulls plus increase the in bridge cost), and take 11 months to produce. Each may have up to 2 hardpoints. fire control may be provided within the module.

This ship jumps up to 3 parsecs with no modules, up to 2 parsecs with 1 module, and 1 parsec with 2 or 3 modules. acceleration is 4g with no modules, 2 g with 1 module, and 1g with 2 or 3 modules.

While modules are installed, the ship requires a navigator.

Changing configuration requires 2 days in a port class B or A. the modules should be balanced by professionals.

Modular Trader
MCr 119.115
Crew: 1 pilot, 2 engineers, 1 medic, 1 gunner (modules require navigator)
Drives: jdrive-D, mdrive-D, pplant-D. 3 parsec jump range, 4g manuever
Bridge: model/3 computer, 2 hardpoints, single beam laser turret
Fuel: 100 tons (1 jump and 28 days endurance)
6 staterooms
6 tons cargo
Cargo Module
MCr 5
200 tons cargo
Passage Module
MCr 38.9
Crew: 3 stewards
Staterooms: 27
Low berths: 48
Ships Vehicle: 40 ton slow pinnace
30 tons cargo

 

[Pwyll]

and another modular design you may be in which you may be interested

Scout Module
100 ton Jump-0 9 months Unstreamlined TL 7

fits onto a type S scout/courier. no drives or bridge. easily attached or detached by crew in several minutes in zeroGee. scout ship is no longer streamlined while this module is attached, and requires an engineer and a medic. only one module may be attached. the ship may not land on a planet with the module attached. the module attaches to the forward landing gear.

Module
MCr 2.5
100 tons cargo

 

[paraplegic_racehorse]

Not to revive an old and tired thread, but ... egads! How backwards. We already have modules in the 50-ton modular cutter. Design around them:

Type A8 Modular Trader:
200 ton dispersed structure
J-1 / 1-G
40.2 tons total fuel (38.2 jump, 2 PP)
2 hard-points, 2-tons space unused for weapons installation
4 tons internal cargo space
7 staterooms
28 person-weeks luxury stores
Recreation center (4-tons, 0.5MCr ?)
Entertainment center (4-tons, 0.5MCr ?)
1-each Pilot, Astrogator, Engineer (1 steward, medic, 2 gunners as/if needed)
1 small-craft hangar, external, unstreamlined (50-ton cutter)
7 small-craft hangars, external, unstreamlined (30-ton cutter modules)
Cost 69.06 MCr + Cutter + 30-ton modules (discount not included)

If equipped with eight (remember the one already attached to the cutter) open modules, cargo space is a whopping 240 tons for a 200-ton starship frame; and it's only 25MCr (incl. cutter) more expensive than a standard Type-A.

Same can be done to the horribly un-profitable Type-A2:

200-ton dispersed
J-2 / 2-G
53.6 total fuel (1x J2, 4-weeks PP)
2 hard-points (2-tons unallocated for weapons)
7 staterooms
Pilot, Astrogator, Navigator (opt: Steward, Medic, 2x Gunner)
28 person-weeks stores
Rec center, Ent center (4-tons, 0.5MCr ea?)
5 tons internal cargo
1x 50-ton cutter hanger, ext, unstream
3x 30-ton cutter-modules, ext, unstream
Cost: 83.08MCr + Cutter + modules (discount not taken)

If equipped with 4x open modules, cargo = 120 tons; an increase of more than 50% over the standard A2 and bringing the ship into profitability at bulk-freight rates.

Standard module configuration for each would probably retain one module for ship use (ATV, Air/Raft, storage, portable office space, emergency low berths, etc.) and the rest for profit-making activities.

 

[Scott Martin]

I had something like this for a TCS-esque campaign starting at TL-9 (so a bunch of ships had to be built at TL-8.

One of my "standard" ships was a 200 dT transport with a 100 dT modular bay. Drop a J-Drive capable of pushing 200 dT, 40 dT of fuel and a bunch of staterooms and lab space, and I have instant FTL scouts for a fairly low incremental cost.

I later discovered that the other folks in the game all had a bunch of TL-8 SDB's: I wasn't too pained by the loss of my scout ships

Scott Martin

 

[shadowdragon]

Atl-Atl Class Jump Module

100-ton Hull (Cylinder) - Partially Streamlined
AC: 14 (8 vs. Meson Guns)
AR: 6 (TL-15)
SI: 100
Initiative: -2

Starship Size: Medium
Cost: 27.158 MCr (33.947 MCr without discount)
Annual Maintenance = 2.716 KCr (1.358 KCr if routinely maintained)
Routine Maintenance = .679 KCr/Month (6.79 KCr per year)

Model/3 (PP: 42/12) Computer
Avionics: Less than 600-ton
Sensors: Close Range
Communications: Close Range
Cargo: 2.9-tons

Performance:
Jump-1 (enough fuel for 3x Jump-1)
Acceleration: 0g
Agility: -2
Power Plant: None

Active Defenses:

Weapons:
Hardpoints: 1
Triple Mixed Turret (Dorsal Mount)
Missile Rack TL-15, +2 To Hit, 2d6 (18/x1), Range: 90,000km, Ammo: 40 missiles
Missile Rack TL-15, +2 To Hit, 2d6 (18/x1), Range: 90,000km, Ammo: 40 missiles
Pulse Laser TL-15, +2 To Hit, 2d10 (19/x2), Range: 45,000km

Ship's Vehicles:
1x 100-ton small craft (External Dock - Unstreamlined)
Launch facilities for 1 Craft per turn
Accommodations & Fittings:
1x Small Craft Couch (1 Crew)
1x Standalone Fresher
1x Autodoc
1x Airlock

Description:
Atl-Atl Class jump modules allow 100 dTon ships without jump capability of their own to reach the stars. It is equipped with only the basics, fuel, jump drives, a single mixed missile and laser turret and docking mount. This module has a range of 3 parsec, but requires 3 weeks to get there. A smallcraft couch, fresher and emergency autodoc are placed at the single monitoring station, and includes the computer and comms/sensor suite hardware, where a single operator can perform system checks and most repairs. The module must pull 2.7 EP from the docked ship in order to operate. The docking mount contains connections to link both ships computers and combat systems (allowing the turrets to both be controlled from one ship), and allow transfer of fuel and power between ships.

Pilum I - Javelin Class Scout / Trader

100-ton Hull (Needle/Wedge) - Streamlined
AC: 14 (16 vs. Meson Guns)
AR: 0
SI: 100
Initiative: +4
Starship Size: Medium
Cost: 45.871 MCr (57.339 MCr without discount)
Annual Maintenance: 4.587 KCr (2.294 KCr if routinely maintained)
Routine Maintenance: 1.147 KCr/Month (11.468 KCr per year)

Model/3 (PP: 42/12) Computer
Avionics: Less than 4,000-ton
Sensors: Medium Range
Communications: Medium Range

Cargo: 48.25-tons
Extra Ship's Stores: 4 crew/weeks of Standard Stores,
Performance:
Acceleration: 4-G
Agility: 4
Power Plant: TL-15 Fusion (12 EP output, enough fuel for 4.07 weeks)
Fuel Purification Plant (TL-15, 5 hrs per 200 tons of fuel)
Atmospheric Speeds: NOE = 1,175kph Cruising = 3,525kph Maximum = 4,700kph
Active Defenses:

Weapons:
Hardpoints: 1
Triple Mixed Turret (Ventral Mount)
Missile Rack TL-15, +2 To Hit, 2d6 (18/x1), Range: 90,000km, Ammo: 20 missiles
Pulse Laser TL-15, +2 To Hit, 2d10 (19/x2), Range: 45,000km
Pulse Laser TL-15, +2 To Hit, 2d10 (19/x2), Range: 45,000km

Ship's Vehicles:
1x 6-ton vehicle hangar

Accomodations & Fittings:
3x Single Occupancy Small Cabin (3 People)
1x Emergency Low Berth (4 People)
1x Autodoc
2x Airlocks

Crew Details:
1x Pilot / Gunner
1x Engineer / Steward

Description:
Javelin Class Scout / Traders have an enormous amount of cargo space, nearly 50 dTons, available to them. Specially designed to work with the Atl-Atl Class Jump Module, it has power to spare for jumps, agility or anything else the pilot might need. It can even carry a middle passenger or two.

 

[shadowdragon]

hmm 200 dtons for the cost of 170 dtons.
NEET!!!

 

[Valarian]

I've also got something similar in design. A 400dt trader that can carry up to six 50dt cargo modules, externally docked.

 

[Emrys]

I seem to recall designing (many, many years ago) a strange concoction of, I think, a shuttle, pinnace and boat (and there may have been a fighter in there somewhere, too) which would come together to form a 200dT jump-capable ship.

All a bit silly, I know, but it was fun.

I never found a GM who would allow it, of course.

 

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Paraplegic Racehorse:

<snip>
1 small-craft hangar, external, unstreamlined (50-ton cutter)
7 small-craft hangars, external, unstreamlined (30-ton cutter modules)
Cost 69.06 MCr + Cutter + 30-ton modules (discount not included)

If equipped with eight (remember the one already attached to the cutter) open modules, cargo space is a whopping 240 tons for a 200-ton starship frame; and it's only 25MCr (incl. cutter) more expensive than a standard Type-A.

<snip>
1x 50-ton cutter hanger, ext, unstream
3x 30-ton cutter-modules, ext, unstream
Cost: 83.08MCr + Cutter + modules (discount not taken)

If equipped with 4x open modules, cargo = 120 tons; an increase of more than 50% over the standard A2 and bringing the ship into profitability at bulk-freight rates.

Standard module configuration for each would probably retain one module for ship use (ATV, Air/Raft, storage, portable office space, emergency low berths, etc.) and the rest for profit-making activities.

I'd like to see the math on how you get 240 dT into the 200 dT hull. Yes, I know you wrote it up as "dispersed" but the jump grid still must encompass the whole, and the "size" of the hull must then be judged according to the size of the grid frame, which is therefore going to be well over 300 dT.

There's a reason why they only allow fuel tanks external to the grid: they get left behind.