Finally kicked the tires on MGT/MB Combat

[ThunderChilde]

First comment, I really needed to put together a cheat sheet before hand, or GM screen, either one.

I set up the opponents and allies in a large scrum. A large TLA(10) invading fleet facing a much smaller TLF(15) fleet. Small ships for the most part, the bulk of the fleet being 1,200 tons on average. I pre-gened all the ships and played out a number of fights.

Points, I forgot how much the tech/computer bias tilted engagedments. It can take a long time to disable a ship using the tables as is. A house rule for aiming at particular items might be in order. Rad hits aren't as fearsome as I'd assumed they'd be for the most part.

The PC's well armed TLF 600 ton frieghter was like the proverbial bull in a china shop. They defeated 2 2,000 tonners and 2 800 tonners, purpose built warships. They were hit and took damage, nothing too crippling though. So much drama, so little pathos.

A learning experience all round, could have been better done by me, live and learn.

 

[far-trader]

I still need to find time to do more than crack the seal on my MPT

Interesting, thanks for sharing, and yep I'd guess some mistakes were made. Any TL small freighter beating larger purpose built warships (plural, never mind single) means either there's something seriously wrong with the rules or the application of them (or both ).

Not said to kick you while you're down ThunderChilde. More to look into the reasons.

Without knowing particulars I'm going to guess...

The PC freighter had more computer than it needed (a freighter should only have the barest minimum to jump). The military ships would have had the best computer available.

The PC freighter had more maneuver than it needed (1G generally, and no agility, one hit and they're dead in space).

The PC freighter had more weapons than it needed (usually none, rarely few) and that said weapons were more military than civilian.

The PC freighter had better gunners (does MPT use skill?) than the military. Not bloody likely unless said PC gunners were ex-mil themselves (which is possible, and I'd allow that edge).

The PC freighter had better pilot and commander (again if skill counts) than the military. Again, unlikely but possible. Bad luck for the invaders then.

I suggest redesigning the ships so the freighter IS a freighter and not a gunship

There's no way the PC ship should have been as big a factor as it was. None. Not even with high skills (the military skills should have been at least equal if not superior).

 

[atpollard]

(the military skills should have been at least equal if not superior).

I generally agree with everything you wrote except this (and even this point is more of an "Are you sure?").

I remember reading once about veteran pilots from the Korean War in the Air Force Reserves defeating younger active duty pilots in the regular Air Force during a wargame. 'Adventurers' might be more experienced veterans than the 'average' active duty military crewman.

 

[the angle]

In any such encounter, experience will tell. If your freighter crew was composed of 16-year veterans of the Navy, then it should have an edge. If it was composed of 16-year veterans of the Merchant Marine, I'd give the edge to the Navy.

Steve

 

[ThunderChilde]

The frieghter in question is a 600 ton J-5 M-3 ship, 5 turrets, 2x3 missile, 1x3 pulse, 1x3 beam, beam, sand, 1x3 particle. I am testing the use a couple of Freelance traveller ideas in the ship, Lyman drive and Densified fuel rules. The players know they have bleeding edge tech on board, the ship has a naval reserve commision, all strings attached.

The characters, 5 term space patrol / 1 term scout, 4 term navy / 2 term Merch., 4 term Pirate / 1 term Merch, 6 term Marine, 6 term Psion Warrior. Oh, and 14 Vargr Pirates/Mercenaries(relevent skill 2) PC's are 2 Barons, 1 Knight, One Soc 9, the Pirate is Vargr W charisma 12. Pc's also had a 440 ton Nishemi class pirate ship flying wing with them, they weren't strictly alone.

The enemy has just regained jump-2, TL 10, has been on a spree of conquering TL 5-6 low pop worlds. Oh they haven't been able to manufacture reliable fushion, so they use Fission. Set it's sights on the TL-15 mid pop system as the next target. I generated random officer and crew types to stand for the average guys, 1-2 terms, officers being in for 2-4 terms.
Their Navy is a recent, last 30 years crash building program, and no worthy foes to sharpen up on. The ships had more or less the best TL 10 could put in small warships.

There is no agility in MGT/ MB, and I don't think it's in HG either. With the way the hit tables work, it'll take 3 hits on the manuever drive in one turn to knock out the drive, which may be repaired and brought back up in action. 2-12 table, Manuever comes up once or twice on it.

 

[far-trader]

The frieghter in question is a 600 ton J-5 M-3 ship, 5 turrets, 2x3 missile, 1x3 pulse, 1x3 beam, beam, sand, 1x3 particle. I am testing the use a couple of Freelance traveller ideas in the ship, Lyman drive and Densified fuel rules. The players know they have bleeding edge tech on board, the ship has a naval reserve commision, all strings attached.

It's a simple case of inappropriate classification then That's not a freighter, that's a full on (maybe clandestine) military courier

And in that case it seems reasonable (even expected) that it outclasses the lower TL military ships, including good crewing. The military wouldn't let just anyone run one of their (perhaps off-book) couriers.

 

[Galadrion]

Yeah, I was thinking "Q-ship" when I read the specs on it. It's grossly over-armed and long-legged to be a merchant... particularly a freighter. Remember, those characteristics translate into expensive, which is something those merchie types don't like. A prudent merchant goes armed, true, but rarely as heavily as his expected opposition. After all, he's not looking to capture or destroy them, he's looking to discourage them - a typical mix for a merchant should be one pulse laser and two sandcasters - defense keeps you from having to pay those expensive repairs, and you shouldn't be thinking in terms of throwing those pricey missiles at bandits, either.

 

[ThunderChilde]

I can see your point, but I would guess that you have not looked up the variant rules. To repeat, Lyman Drive and densified fuels rules from Freelance Traveller's Shpyard.

With in the limits of the varient rules and standard MGT rules, at 600 tons, it also carries 200 tons of cargo, 6 High Passage guests, and 20 low passage. It also has a ships boat in a full hangar, a worshop, medical bay, library, briefing room and gym. Oh and a couple levels of luxuries, and 6 double occupancy staterooms for the crew.

Fast, secure cargo shipping, maintence subsided by the Navy, which makes use of it from time to time. She is a Frontier Marches type trader, it's wild and wooly outside the Imperium, and marginally safer inside it.

 

[Whipsnade]

I can see your point, but I would guess that you have not looked up the variant rules. To repeat, Lyman Drive and densified fuels rules from Freelance Traveller's Shpyard.

ThunderChilde,

Those are great variants! Freelance Traveller is a superb resource and one that is too often sadly overlooked.

Your players had a Lyman Drive and densified fuels huh? So, why didn't everyone else in the setting have them too? I can see your "Newly Returned To Space" bad guys not physically possessing the latest and greatest technologies, but I can't see them not knowing that such technologies exist, not making strenuous efforts to recover them, and not taking pains to lessen the advantage these technologies give their enemies.

One of the basic assumptions of Traveller has always been the idea of an "equality" between PCs and NPCs. Later rule sets, like GT and T20, ignored this assumption of "equality" but good Traveller GMs try to at least pay lip service to the idea.

Give your players some real challenges and make their ship less of a Super-Wham-O-Dyne marvel. They'll thank you for it.


Regards,
Bill

 

[ThunderChilde]

Heh, like limited repair options for starters. They get right nervous from time to time. In my TU, these are cutting edge tech just starting to hit the market, thier ship is a both a test bed and a operational example. They are required by agreement to check in at any Naval or Scout base they happen to run across. The check ins have taken as long as 5 days as techs craw all over the egineering spaces.

Oddly enough, the Navy at the moment has a lock on the Lyman Drive, but are sharing the Densified fuel tech with the scouts and Sector, Sub-Sector and Colonial Fleets. Soon the Mega-Corps will have thier claws on it too. It is slowly spreading out from the Marches down into Corridor. Lyman Production is currently centered at Darrian, Mora and Glisten.

Both are products of joint Imperial/Darrian research projects.

 

[Whipsnade]

Heh, like limited repair options for starters.

ThunderChilde,

A short repair tether is one way to dial back your PCs' advantage, but I still think that ship is too much of a good thing. After all, they beat over nine times their tonnage in warships in what you want to call a freighter. That's just plain crazy.

It's too similar to Level 9 paladins carving their way through hordes of Level 1 goblins for my taste. Traveller usually doesn't play like D&D.

Both are products of joint Imperial/Darrian research projects.

Bleeding edge TL16 research and yet the players have it aboard their freighter with only a single "Please check in with us when you're in range" string attached? What is the Imperium going to loan them next? Black globes, jump projectors, and anti-matter beams?

Maybe in YTU, but definitely not in mine.


Regards,
Bill