Non OTU: First Contact

[2010]

So my idea is that I want to run my game sort of proto-traveller style. U really enjoyed the discussion about keeping things simple, without the 3I. Winging it as I go, letting my imagination create the setting. That's how i've always pretty much done things. However, I got to thinking that I have a scout ship exploring the unknown from a system that just developed jump capability, so all of space is unknown to them.

Shortly after entering a new system, they detect an energy source. They know that there are no other scouts have been assigned to the area they are exploring. As the ref, I know that this is a first alien contact. Whether it is another ship or from an inhabited body does not matter at this moment. What I do know is that the aliens are already colonizing other systems, and this is not their home system. If it is a ship, they are somewhere relatively close to their frontier, and if it is an inhabited world, it is probably not very established as it is at the edge of their frontier.

What I am wondering is how to determine the size of their controlled space and just where it is located. I have been thinking of using their jump number and multiplying it by ten to determine the rough diameter of their controlled space, then rolling for each system within it. The homeworld may need a bit of adjusting to make it work for the alien race, which would be rolled at random with a bit of adjusting or re rolling to make it work also. The direction of the homeworld from the contact system would need to be determined also.

On the other hand, I really like the way T4 Pocket Empires allows the creation of detail as to how a system and its neighbors interact with each other, and how they develop over time. The referee can draw endless situations that are plausible in a reasonably small setting. One can ignore official canon completely and create a unique backstory in the process.

The question is how to keep things as simple and free flowing as possible regardless of which direction I choose to go with.

 

[kilemall]

Totally random polity sizing= roll 1d6.


On a 6, roll another die, stop if 1-5, roll again if 6.


Multiply the results.


So roll 5, 5 systems.


Roll 6 then 5, 30 systems.


Roll 6 then 6 then 5, 180 systems.


Gets you a quick number to work with, bite-size chunks most of the time and the bigger stuff should be pretty rare and can be ignored if you don't want to use it.

 

[2010]

I think that will form a good basis for what I'm looking for. The jump capability of the aliens I think can be used instead of or in some fashion to increase the number of worlds, as they would have had more time to expand their borders.

If they have a capability of J-3, then a roll for J-1 could be used to determine roughly how developed the systems are. A second roll for J-2 would add to the number of systems in the next wave of expansion, and J-3 could be their frontier.

Thinking about this a bit more, once the shock of the signal detection wears off, the captain pulls up a star chart. Players then roll for system presence only for x number of hexes away and direction. The ref makes a secret roll for alien homeworld distance and direction. All systems within the jump numbers are potentially settled by them and are within their range of operations. Instant alien civilization. Due to slow communications between worlds it will take quite a while before either side can put into motion to decide what to do about the newcomers, giving the ref and players ample time to generate the future. No canon needed, and play progresses naturally.

This is really looking good. Thanks for the reply!! Would love to hear more ideas.

 

[whartung]

What do you want it to be?

Another thing thats suggested here on the forum long ago (I think atpollard suggested it, but I may be wrong), was to generate a blob of planets, (sector, subsector, whatever).

Then you methodically reduce the planets back to until the highest TL system is TL-9 and Jump 1. You do this by knocking the TLs back level by level, and similarly you reduce the population number (I don't recall the factor on population adjustment, 10-20% perhaps each iteration). It's kind of a matter of how long each TL represents as you knock everyone back to the stone age.

In the end you have a single system (or more) that's at Jump-1. You then go through all of the non-shirt sleeve worlds (exotic atmosphere and whatnot) and just zero out their populations (they no longer have the tech to support them). So, they lose their population, their starwort, their government and law level. And leave behind a fresh, new garden planet to stumble upon.

Now you have a "virgin" galaxy awaiting conquest. Take your new society and their new, magic, Jump Drive, and start expanding. Your society, obviously, brings their TL-9 with them as they head out.

Then it becomes a question of how far you go, how long before you reach TL-10 and Jump-2, etc. Can you find the TL-8 worlds before they reach TL-9 and get their own Jump-1, and start competing. (Or if there was another TL-9 world that survived).

There's no rules, it's a thought experiment, but it's a different starting tableau than just a random sector trying to figure out what 1000 people are doing living on a gas giant.

I actually wrote code to do this, I'll have to look at it when I get home -- see if I can dredge it up.

 

[2010]

What do I want it to be is a great question. It made me stop and think for a bit. To answer, I need to go back to what has been in the back of my mind for quite a few years.

Sometime possibly as long as 15 years ago or so, I came across Steer for the Third Star on the Left. A free rule set for playing a multi player 4x game on paper. Everything was created randomly. I thought that it could make a great Traveller campaign backdrop. It created a macro setting where things were always happening for a reason. Traveller originally set out to be played on a micro scale of the populated systems. The OTU gives a macro enviroment, but never really turned me on. Then I found T4's Pocket Empires, that gives enough information to connect the micro to the macro, but the OTU was still lurking in the background. That's not a bad thing, just not my cup of tea. The urge to create it as I go has always been in the back of my mind. I've had a bit of a break from real life tasks the past few days, and this issue came back to mind, so I am spending a bit of time while I have it mulling it over to see if i can bring it to something workable.

I did read atpollard's digression idea and I like it. My initial reaction was that the digression work time could be spent in creating or building the backdrop. That being said, creating the systems and adding the additional details from Pocket empires, is what I'm looking at now. It may be helpful to do Pollard's digression also, as it may reveal some additional things that might not come to light using the PE method. Which brings me to what are those 1000 people doing around the gas giant.

There must be a reason why the players want to know the details of that moon of the gas giant. Did they meet an NPC who needs to get there in a hurry? Does cargo need to be delivered? Or do they just want to go there for whatever reason? If I can come up with a relatively quick way to come up with a set of charts for creating the macro, I can find something in there that will be enough to set up the micro. It doesn't have to be much, the rest of the details can be done as time goes on. One thing that also needs to be fleshed out is economics.

PE and T5, use the RU in the macro, but do not match up with each other as to how many RUs a system generates. I need to look into PE more as they do have a credit to RU figure that I don't remember offhand. It's my universe and I can use whatever I want, as long as it basically works. If RUs are being used or generated by that 1000 pop gas giant world, then there are credits available to fund a task by a patron for the players. That world could become the base of operations for the players for quite a while and the details of said world will grow over time.

Enough of my rambling for now. Time to get out my folder of world building charts, and start piecing together something that works reasonably fast. Will keep you posted.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

So my idea is that I want to run my game sort of proto-traveller style. U really enjoyed the discussion about keeping things simple, without the 3I. Winging it as I go, letting my imagination create the setting. That's how i've always pretty much done things. However, I got to thinking that I have a scout ship exploring the unknown from a system that just developed jump capability, so all of space is unknown to them.

Shortly after entering a new system, they detect an energy source. They know that there are no other scouts have been assigned to the area they are exploring. As the ref, I know that this is a first alien contact. Whether it is another ship or from an inhabited body does not matter at this moment. What I do know is that the aliens are already colonizing other systems, and this is not their home system. If it is a ship, they are somewhere relatively close to their frontier, and if it is an inhabited world, it is probably not very established as it is at the edge of their frontier.

What I am wondering is how to determine the size of their controlled space and just where it is located. I have been thinking of using their jump number and multiplying it by ten to determine the rough diameter of their controlled space, then rolling for each system within it. The homeworld may need a bit of adjusting to make it work for the alien race, which would be rolled at random with a bit of adjusting or re rolling to make it work also. The direction of the homeworld from the contact system would need to be determined also.

On the other hand, I really like the way T4 Pocket Empires allows the creation of detail as to how a system and its neighbors interact with each other, and how they develop over time. The referee can draw endless situations that are plausible in a reasonably small setting. One can ignore official canon completely and create a unique backstory in the process.

The question is how to keep things as simple and free flowing as possible regardless of which direction I choose to go with.

One option for working out the length of the tail would could be to look at how far in form a base port a scout ship can range


Traveller ships need maintenance in general, and a annual overhaul in particular. Working form this, we can say that a scout ship, generally, is only about six months travel time away from a shipyard that can preform that level of maintenance. So, no more than about 25-30 weeks away. Assuming they can find fuel, thats about 15 jumps back to base.

Now, other factors whittle that number down a bit. A scout ship in uncharted territory is going to be going slower than that, as it needs to both survey the systems its passing though and forage for wilderness refuelling sites. I'd imagine that most scout ships would be built with enough fuel for two jumps (or J2 or higher, allowing a J1 jump in and a J1 jump out), lest they get caught in a fuel-less system. This shortens the "tether" down a few jumps, down to maybe 12 or even 10 jumps out of a repair site.


Now, this repair site doesn't need to be a major colony, it could be a frontier world where the scout base and shipyards are the major employer, or even a jump-mobile shipyard that acts as a "mothership" for the local scout/survey effort.




on what happens on first contact, I'd imagine any sort of organised scout/survey effort is going to have a established, codified protocol on What To Do In A First Contact Situation, even if its just "get the hell otta dodge and tell us about it". I'd imagine that its would recommend a cautious approach, while trying to be discreet about it.

Also, what is the alien's reaction to the first contact? is this something they were expecting, something they planned for? is this a planned approach after having spotted the players, or will they break for the jump limit as soon as they detect the players? are they even scouts, or something else (for example, a planetary survey crew in a backwater, or a freighter travelling to a automated mining colony.)? do they even realise the players are a new race? Do they start complaining the players are trespassing? their as a lot of things that could happen.

 

[2010]

Xerxes, I never gave a thought to maintenance. Your absolutely about that having an effect on contact range. Will have to keep that in mind.

What will the aliens response to an unexpected detection of the players ship? It may not be the players at all, but scouts from the players side happening in the background. The players may only learn of the first contact through wildly exaggerated rumors several months later.

Is the contact with the players race their first contact, or have they met more races? What are those relations, and have the players met them prior? Is the detection of the craft a possible friendly craft jumping into their system? All of these things can be determined at the macro level, and will be unique each time it is played out.

Well, back to working out the macro level charts.

 

[whartung]

traveller ships, need maintenance in general, and a annual overhaul in particular. working form this, we can say that a scout ship, generally, is only about six months travel time away from a shipyard that can preform that level of maintenance. so, no more than about 25-30 weeks away. assuming they can find fuel, thats about 15 jumps back to base.

For laughs I printed out a map of Spinward Marches.

I started in Regina, and contrived the following rules.

Jump takes 2 week in to an unknown system. In to a known system or empty hex, it takes a week. The logic is that while we can detect a gas giant in a distant system, we can't really plot where it is, so you can't jump "to" the gas giant, and you burn a week traveling to it to refuel. During the extended week is when the base, gross survey is done. Everything else is basically travel.

Mission duration is 6 months. For simplicity, I just gave every system a gas giant. The printout I was using was small and I wasn't going to look for little dots.

Starting at Regina, I was able to reach 82 systems, and it took about 32 years to do it with a single ship. You could send out multiple ships, but this only scales so far as the big cost is the unexplored systems. You could have out going ships rendezvous with homeward bound ships to trade data for the outward leg of the new ship.

That said, I don't think 10 ships would do it in 3 years. But you should easily be able to knock it down to 5-10 years with extra ships. There's roughly 4 directions from Regina, so just 4 would speed things up.

Increasing mission duration obviously increases range. There were several trips down arms of systems that took the entire mission just to get one more system at the end. That's one instance where a couple of ships, a week or two apart can share the data and gain some real time.

It was an interesting little experiment. I'd have to try it again with multiple ships, see how fast it could go. Its a bit of a trick to keep track of what was visited and counting the path back so as to not go too far.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

whartung, when you say "duration 6 months", is that 6 months from leaving port to turning around, or 6 months from leaving port to entering port?

Right, so, to expand that reach, the easiest option is to send a depot ship/tender forward to a convenient system, for example a branch in the jump main or a particularly valuable garden world. This depot ship would basically be just a jump capable shipyard (constructible under MgT rules, and I;m sure it can be bodged into other systems), with the supplies, yard workers and equipment to conduct annual maintenance or major repair work.


pushing one these out would basically "reset" the clock for endurance, so it would expand the number of systems that could be explored. it would also speed up the exploration of the local area as ships could spend more time exploring and less time in transit to the yards.




The longer term solution would be establishing a frontier colony, with the same initial set up: a full yard to support the scouting effort, plus whatever facilities is needed to support that yard. This colony would act as a "bridgehead", or a focal point for father efforts in the local area. In time, it would become a major "nodal" system for the subsector, much like Regina is.

 

[whartung]

whartung, when you say "duration 6 months", is that 6 months from leaving port to turning around, or 6 months from leaving port to entering port?

The ship had to be back to Regina in 6 months.

Obviously, you can build longer missions, set up forward bases, push out freighters and what not.

I just picked 6 months as an arbitrary "for the sanity of the crew" kind of number. Even with annual maintenance, there has to be some base assumption that if anything "goes wrong", you're likely stranded and dead, so always good to not press your luck. Early on, there's actual survey work. But later, it's just a lot of time in jump space. How many times can you watch the all 9 seasons of X-Files? It can be tough duty.

I can easily visualize a 10 year program of nearby exploration. At that point, you have 82 new systems to decide what to do with, so at what point do you "just stop" and start expanding. You'd also want to go back for more detailed surveys anyway, which take a lot more time. This is just a cursory glance to capture basic planet mechanics. Lots more work to do. This phase I'd just chalk up to the "Pathfinder Service".

It was certainly frustrating as a surveyor. I would reach the edge of a cluster of worlds, but the rest were JUST out of reach.

 

[2010]

Whartung, how far was the ship able to jump per jump, and how many parsecs away was it able to reach in the six months? Its been a real long time since I had my nose in the jump rules, and don't really remember. I am going to limit a jump 1 ship to one parsec, but I think I recall depending on what rules are used that a jump 1 ship might be able to go further. Something about the smaller the ship, the further it can jump. I may have remembered that all wrong.

Will have to dig out the books on system scouting to get an idea of how much time it would take to determine a planets economic potential. Then would have to get an idea of how long it would take the powers that be, to determine just where they will spend the RU's to get a way station or colony set up, in order to expand their control. How long would it take to get everything needed in order set that mission into motion?

Lots to ponder.

 

[aramis]

Whartung, how far was the ship able to jump per jump, and how many parsecs away was it able to reach in the six months? Its been a real long time since I had my nose in the jump rules, and don't really remember. I am going to limit a jump 1 ship to one parsec, but I think I recall depending on what rules are used that a jump 1 ship might be able to go further. Something about the smaller the ship, the further it can jump. I may have remembered that all wrong.

Will have to dig out the books on system scouting to get an idea of how much time it would take to determine a planets economic potential. Then would have to get an idea of how long it would take the powers that be, to determine just where they will spend the RU's to get a way station or colony set up, in order to expand their control. How long would it take to get everything needed in order set that mission into motion?

Lots to ponder.

The Rules solution is (in most editions): a J1 comes out 1 parsec away after a week ±1 day (168:00±16:48 hours:minutes). If sufficient fuel is aboard, a second jump may be done, also taking 7±1 days, and potentially, a third such jump; most ships only have facilities for 4 weeks LS. A J2 works the same, but 2 parsecs each.

Additional LS charges and food come in at "One ton of such supplies in the cargo area will support 2,000 person/days at a cost of Cr50,000. That translates to 285 person/weeks at a cost of Cr175 per week." (JTAS 3 p18)

Few ships can have a payload at 66% fuel (under Bk5, FF&S, T20, MGT1) or worse, 70% (CT-77) or 80% (CT-81/82/83), so 3×J2 is about the far end of range; 3×J3 is physically impossible without drop tanks under all editions.

Depending upon the ship design, a J2 scout can reasonably be designed under most systems for 2×J2, and still be able to have 4 wks PP fuel, plus crew and a good computer.

EG: CT-81/82/83
200 Td 0MCr 22 Hull, 200 Td Custom Streamlined
020 Td 0MCr 1 Bridge
025 Td MCr 40.0 JD D=2
013 Td MCr 32.0 PP D=2
007 Td MCr 16.0 MD D=2
080 Td 0MCr 0.0 J-Fuel 2×J2
020 Td 0MCr 0.0 P-Fuel Weeks×4
009 Td MCr 80.0 Model 7
020 Td 0MCr 2.5 Staterooms×6 (PNEEM)
002 Td 0MCr 0.2 Hardpoints×2
200 Td MCr192.7 totals

 

[whartung]

Yea, it was a simple J1 -- 1 Parsec. A ship with fuel to do two back-to-back J1.

Using similar formula, starting in Regina, with a combination of gas giant and water fueling, all but, like, 4 or 5 of the systems in the Spaniard Marches are reachable by a 2xJ1 ship.

So, a J1 ship is quite capable.

I actually wrote code to, essentially, "traveling salesman" the Marches, that's how I found that some systems were unreachable. They also didn't have a 6 month mission limitation, just a single, long tour. The goal was to see exactly how much was reachable via J1 and wilderness refueling. "Most everything" as it turns out.

The scouting exploration question is interesting because something needs to drive the need to continue to explore. Seems that like, for, 1-2BCr (which is, you know, "nothing"), you could fund the pathfinder missions to the 6 month limit over 10 year hosting a few starships, and get a glance at all of those systems. You'd think it would cost more. The first 10 jump capable ships should be pretty expensive, I'd think. Even 10-20BCr is "cheap".

But then what?

If anything, you can now work on more detailed, targeted survey. You can think about expansion. But, as folks were asking in the other threads, to what end? What's going to drive the people off their home planet to go somewhere dangerous and expensive? "Adventurers", sure.

Colonists? They going to go out with horses and shovels and plows? Or are we looking at several 100 thousand credits of supplies and such for a adventurous family? Who's going to subsidize those ventures?

In agricultural society, "free land" is a great benefit and attractive to people. In an industrialized society? Eh, maybe not so much.

Anyway, its easy to see how once Jump is discovered, that a there would be great incentive and pressure to at least explore the nearby systems. But I think the thirst for knowledge would dwindle quite quickly once they started heading back out to do formal surveys, which will take a lot more time. Will they keep pushing out? Making outposts sole to support more exploration?

As I understand it, the difference between discovery of J1 and J2 were several hundred years. So that leaves a lot of time for formal survey. Also is a lot of time for development, colonization, empires to rise and fall.

 

[aramis]

If you allow Deep Space Jumps to a "calibration point" without a mass...

A J1 100 ton Bk5-81 scout has tonnages like this:
Td_ MCr
100 008.0 Flattened Sphere (SL) 100Td. TL 9
020 000.5 bridge
002 008.0 JD 1
002 003.0 MD 1
006 018.0 PP 1
001 000.0 PP Fuel × 4 weeks
030 000.0 JD Fuel 3 × J1
016 002.0 Staterooms × 5 (P/N, E 2×MissionSpecialist)
001 000.1 Hardpoint ×1
003 018.0 Model/3 ×1
009 000.038 Fuel Purification
004 000.6 Air Raft
004 000.0 Mission Pallet Bay (4Td)
002 000.0 Supply Locker (Cargo, 2 Td)
100 Td, MCr58.238.
Operational range, 150 weeks round trip (food limit) with no specialists. 4 weeks between fueling stops, or 2 jumps; if loitering, jump-in-refuel for jump back, then loiter up to 44 weeks.

A 200 Td 4xJ1 Bk2
200 002.2 SL custom 200 Td.
020 000.5 bridge
003 018.0 Model/3
015 020.0 JD B=1
007 016.0 PP B=1
003 008.0 MD B=1
080 000.0 JFuel 4×j1
020 000.0 PPFuel weeks ×8
004 000.6 Air/Raft
008 000.0 Mission Pallet Bays ×2
002 000.2 Hardpoint
024 003.0 Staterooms ×6 (P, N, E, M, MissionSpecialist ×2)
014 000.0 Cargo Bay.
200 Td MCr65.5

8 weeks, 4×J1, 525 weeks out with crew of 4, 350 with crew of 6.
REALLY long legs there. And it's TL 9.
Ditch both mission bays and 12 tons cargo, and you can add a 5th jump.

 

[estar]

But then what?

It depends on how accessible the technology is. If it is all state run Apollo style projects then one path is followed it. If the technology is accessible to private citizens in the way rocketry has been in the past decade then the possibilities open up.

If anything, you can now work on more detailed, targeted survey. You can think about expansion. But, as folks were asking in the other threads, to what end? What's going to drive the people off their home planet to go somewhere dangerous and expensive? "Adventurers", sure.

It depends on what the surveys show. If there is literally a ball of millions of tons of rare earth metals worth trillions then it will be exploited. Other people less connected and with less resources will take a chance at other other opportunities suggested by the survey. The focus for many of these ventures will be on getting X from "out there" back home to Earth or at least the Solar System.

Depending on how accessible the technology and what the survey turns next are the adventurers and those with specific agenda (think Puritans).

For a time the frontier will a mix of folks hyper focused on resource extraction and a mix of the weird, adventure thrill seekers, and off the wall. Eventually what known will expand beyond the surveys and new opportunities will present itself. This is when the first wave of colonization starts. Piggy backing on the infrastructure that was first built. In large part the people that go are those who are not doing well at home, or found an opportunity for wealth.

Will be a geometric expansion after there is enough people to support service or middle man type enterprises.

For example in year 70 of the Terran Diaspora, John Smith of Bentford Ontario is a struggling owner of a machine shop. A friend, Mark, has come back to Earth from Eridani an inhabitable world 8 weeks out from Earth. One thing John hears from Mark accounts of his adventures is that Eridani has now has a downport that has been setup with a reactor. After a week or so of checking out things it looks like the reactor is not fully utilized.

Despite being inhabitable Eridani was never on anybody top ten places to colonize. Out of the handful of other inhabitable worlds Promixa and Salvation are the ones that got most of the press and attention. However there are only a handful of inhabitable place so Eridani got visitors most of which are to a international research outpost on the surface.

Over the years enough people trickled into Eridani that the planet's population is now in the low thousands. The two highest centers of population are around the research outpost and a settlement by an odd Fusion Millennist cult. Enough that the outpost got a capital budget to build a small downport.

After checking his saving and what he could get for his building, John found that he had enough to make a move out there with enough equipment, mostly 3D fabricators to establish a tool shop on Eridani. He would be literally the only tool shop there outside of the outpost. Mark seems to think the idea will work although a bit risky. John contacts the authority in charge of the downport with Mark's help and find they have more than enough excess power to supply what he needs. They are more than happy to have him if he brings along most of what he needs.

After going what the hell, John makes the move.

 

[2010]

There has been a lot of good input in this topic so far. I haven't had as much time as I would like to work on it as I would like, but the input has given me a lot to ponder when I do have the time. One of the things I think would make creating an alien "empire" or whatever their controlled space is called, would be to not allow empty parsec jumps. I think constricting the available space for J1 and J2 races would reduce the amount of work needed to generate and develop the setting as time passes. It may even be beneficial to restrict the first few alien contacts to J1 or J2 races, so that the ref can get a feel for just how the whole process of evolving the background works. I have a rough idea how it should work, but I know that the reality is much different than the vision. Just today I started cutting paper templates for a contraption I need to build. Holding the pieces in place, I realized that my initial drawings were more complex than needed. I was able to cut the sheet metal and only use half the parts I thought I would need to build it!!

Since Pocket Empires is where I am drawing most of my information from, much of the details for running the aliens in the background is already in place, including their military forces. What they don't have are their scouting forces. I'm just going to add costs for creating the scout units and add it to the military budget. All is needed is the cost of a scouting factor per tech level. The jump cost is the same.

Since each military point is x depending on the tech level, I figure that setting up a scouting point value should be 25 to 50 percent of the military cost. They don't need all of the weaponry... Each scouting point would be enough for scouting operations for 1,2 or even 3 worlds from one world as its base of operations.

PE has two scouting Meta Tasks that cost 1 RU each. The first takes one year to determine the UWP of the world. The second takes two years to determine the full economic extension of the world. I'm sure that it should not take that long, but the tasks are planned in yearly increments, and takes into account that the entire system is scouted, as only main worlds dealt with in play. Also the data needs to be reviewed at higher levels to determine what should be done with those systems, and where to deploy the scouts next.

At this point, I think its time to start rolling dice and focus on just playing the background for a while. I'll roll up some worlds using sparse density and make sure that there are about 6 or so worlds in J1 range. Then will extend it for J2 and see how things progress from there. I'll start with an earth uwp except that it will be TL9 in order to start exploration and colonization and see what happens. Also change the government to a world government in order to use the full economic weight to expand and develop.

One last note. I generated a few random sectors with Heaven and Earth and was surprised how many highly developed worlds did not have many RUs in excess for spending. Looks like There are only so many worlds in an "empire" that have the economic muscle to get things done. Interesting.

 

[whartung]

Since each military point is x depending on the tech level, I figure that setting up a scouting point value should be 25 to 50 percent of the military cost. They don't need all of the weaponry... Each scouting point would be enough for scouting operations for 1,2 or even 3 worlds from one world as its base of operations.

25-50% budget is either Really High, or you have a really crummy military.

When I think scouting, I think of expeditions like Lewis and Clark, or the other great explorers that took their ship or small fleet and went in to the farthest corners of the Earth.

A far cry from 100-500 ships navies with Man of Wars and heavy weapons (not to mention land forces).

Plus, there was simple the matter of the private scouts of the "Daniel Boone" variety, just poking around the woods.

Now, if you're simply talking the cost of an individual ship, then, perhaps. A Scout ship could well be cheaper than a fully armed military ship. But operationally, the Scout ship wouldn't be dramatically cheaper than a similar sized Military ship. Still got to feed and pay the crews, you just don't have to necessarily pay the maintenance on some fancy weapon system.

If you limit yourself to J1 and no empty hexes, you will find the empires hindered quite readily. J2 will open a LOT of doors, though. There's little difference between J1 and twice the jump fuel, and a J2 ship. For my experiment, if anything, the sphere would have been expanded greatly since time was the primary constraint, and J2 helps with that.

Simply, you may find that J2, with a typical Traveller sector is not much of a limitation at all. But J1, it really is.

 

[2010]

Whartung, I usually get to replying pretty late and am usually pretty tired, so my posts often get rambling. I don't always get things across the way I think they should, so forgive me if you get confused, as I usually get confused posting

If you are familiar with the way military forces are represented with PE then this is old info for you. A military unit with an attack factor of 1 at TL6, has the same amount of punch as a unit with an attack factor of 1 at TL 12. The TL6 unit is just much larger to achieve the same amount of firepower, and costs much much more. You are correct in your second comment about the cost of a scout ship would be much less than a military ship of the same size. That cost difference is what I was referring to with my 25 to 50 percent of a military ship. In this case however, the number of ships does not matter. The scouting factor is just an idea of how much the scouting unit it represents, is capable of doing in a years time. That time includes the actual planning to send the scouts out and what they are trying to accomplish, getting the results back to higher authorities for processing, logistics... a player ship entering a system near the scout unit, would have a chance to encounter a scout ship and there is a good reason why it was there. Of course if the players enter the same system and the scout unit is operating much farther away, then the chances of encountering a scout ship would be less. However, this does not take into account that there could be a scout there from a corporation, rich speculator... Am looking to give those scout bases and scouts more of an active role in the background.

While looking at the military unit system in PE another thought came to mind. When an alien race has been contacted, and the ref figures out just where there homeworld is located, by generating what the size of their military force is, can help determine how much force they can deploy to control the amount of space surrounding them. Will be looking into that possibility for setting up their controlled space and area of operations very soon.

Also while pondering the alien worlds question, the question of how long have the aliens been jump capable stays in the back of my mind. PE has a table of how long it would take to successfully research a tech increase. I can roll for each level and add a modifier or two and come up with a timeline. This can help determine how developed their colonized worlds are. Lots more to figure out here but its a possibility.

Again I thank you all for your replies. Each of them have given me new ideas or a different view of existing ones. I hope perhaps the readers may get some little or big spark of imagination for their travelling as well.

 

[2010]

So far I have been getting all of the information needed to create all of the details for system creation together in a streamlined format, to generate the details as easily as possible. The information is scattered in the Pocket Empires book, which makes it more difficult than it should be. Am really happy with the results so far.

The next task is to get the alien race generation process down. My question for everyone now is, from what version is the easiest to use?

 

[Fovean]

So far I have been getting all of the information needed to create all of the details for system creation together in a streamlined format, to generate the details as easily as possible. The information is scattered in the Pocket Empires book, which makes it more difficult than it should be. Am really happy with the results so far.

The next task is to get the alien race generation process down. My question for everyone now is, from what version is the easiest to use?

Yeah PE is a tough book as the walls of text are hard to wade thru and the tables feel very out-of-context. I feel like there’s a much simpler way to do things in there somewhere but as long as you’re happy that’s all that matters.

As far as aliens, do you mean canon aliens (Aslan, Vargr, etc) or your own creations? If the latter, there’s a third party supplement for Mongoose 1e called Flynn’s Guide to Alien Creation that’s very straightforward and robust enough to create interesting and different races (and drop the sentience stuff and you’re making cool beasties).

Can’t speak to the T5 alien creation process but it seems viable as well. The mechanics in T5 seem similar to T4 (ie, the PE system) but without half-dice. I’m sure someone has worked up the T5 alien race cards for the canon aliens so maybe that work is essentially already done.

EDIT: in re-reading the last several posts it seems I misunderstood your question. Are you doing a post-Long Night as in PE? Reconnecting a previous empire as it were? Or discovering a region for the first time?