Flamethrowers & Poison Gas
- Thread starter ddamant
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Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Grenade launcher seems a better option.
Closest thing I can think of is rules for chemical smoke rounds in Striker. I don't recall ever seeing a mention of flamethrowers in the CT rule books.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Should be easy enough to do.
Flamethrower would be an area effect attack weapon, a narrow cone extending from the nozzle. Should have a high probability of hit, something like 3D and ignore armor not heatproofed or CA/BD, 1D continuing damage until fire put out.
For poison gas, I would use a variant of my QND Medical Drama system and design the gas like a sudden onset disease.
Flamethrower would be an area effect attack weapon, a narrow cone extending from the nozzle. Should have a high probability of hit, something like 3D and ignore armor not heatproofed or CA/BD, 1D continuing damage until fire put out.
For poison gas, I would use a variant of my QND Medical Drama system and design the gas like a sudden onset disease.
Dragon #116 "Aim and Burn".
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Against pillboxes and bunkers, flamethrowers acted not by burning or even reaching the occupants, but by using up all of the oxygen and suffocating them. Combat Armor is not likely going to change that, while Battle Dress, if having its own oxygen source, would avoid suffocation. You would have a problem with flaming fuel sticking to the armor.
Depending on the agent, symptoms may not appear for several hours, which can make correctly administering first aid a bit more complex.
With respect to poison gas, I have quite a bit of data from World War 1 on forward of how to use it, but quite simply, I do not view that as something to put online at all.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
As I understood it CA is sealed and effectively a vacc suit, although air tanks are not normal issue. So I guess it would be 'it depends'.
Ahh, I seemed to recall something about this, and there it is- Chemical Weapons in Striker, Book 2 Page 33.
BD, CA and CES are ruled immune for chemical weapons, which suggests that would work for flamethrower oxygen issues.
Gas comes in persistent and non-persistent, and lethal and non-lethal, effectively four variants. So it skips the whole gruesome details bit and just gets into whether there is immunity, contamination or a cloud, and end result effects.
Never felt the need to use it, I would assume most have decided that it messes up the battlefield too much, but certainly would be a Really Bad Guy move against the players or innocents, make those CES more attractive then Cloth +1, and is a very accessible WMD to the unprincipled or desperate.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Have fun taking off a set of armor or a combat environment suit that has been contaminated by either mustard agent or VX. Or operating un-sealed electronic equipment in a chlorine-gas contaminated environment.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Robots and drones usually don't breathe, and in a hi tech battlefield, unless there's some corrosive element, chemical and/or poison warfare isn't going to be very effective against military personnel.
At this point, it's more of a terror weapon against poorly equipped troops.
At this point, it's more of a terror weapon against poorly equipped troops.
Combat Armor is a sealed suit, just like Battle Dress. And requires Vacc Suit skill to wear.
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
Actually, what that means is that BD & CA have their own air supply and CES has very efficient filters - but not its own air supply. According the CT Book 4 Mercenary, that is.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I believe you are correct.
CES is said in LBB4 to provide chemical protection, and so it would be probably (at least) as effective against moustard gas or other chemical aents as today's RL MOPP. Not having its own oxigen supply, though, would make useless against the oxigen depletion a Flamethrower might produce.
As for using posion gas, I't reat it as being temporaly in a toxic/corrosive/insidious atmosphere (depending on the gas), mixting it with any smoke concelment rules for its dispersal/effect area.
It calls my attention that there are references in LBB4 about chemical warfare (e.g. in the comando misión ticket), but no rules to use it.
White Dwarf 33 also had flamethrower stats.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
IF you come into contact with either mustard or VX agent, neither of which are gases at normal temperatures, and fail to go through a thorough decontamination process prior to entering a building or coming into contact with people who are not wearing armor, you will have major problems. If the users decide to get really nasty and mix them with other substances, you are also looking at contamination in terms of several days to weeks.
With respect to more comments on the use of chemical agents, kindly see the beginning of second line in my signature. No, this is not a joke.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
It should also be noted that I am looking at current chemical agents, and not speculating as to future agents or chemicals that could be used as a chemical agent. The US developed DDT and the Germans the first real nerve agent while researching insecticides. Agent Orange is a by-product of herbicide production. It is very hard to say what might be developed in the future to be used on alien species.
Further note, frogs required 10,000 time the lethal dose for a human before dying. Also, it should be noted that most current forms of insecticide are similar chemically to nerve agents, being organophosphate compounds. I handle the insecticide I use on sawfly larva with the greatest of caution, and dispose of the heavy gloves that I wear while using it after a single use, immediately putting them into a doubled plastic bag and then the garbage can.
Further note, frogs required 10,000 time the lethal dose for a human before dying. Also, it should be noted that most current forms of insecticide are similar chemically to nerve agents, being organophosphate compounds. I handle the insecticide I use on sawfly larva with the greatest of caution, and dispose of the heavy gloves that I wear while using it after a single use, immediately putting them into a doubled plastic bag and then the garbage can.
Bob Weaver
SOC-12
JTAS #3 had an article on Advanced Powered Battle Armor (BD on steroids) which included a hand flamer. The article gives brief stats, and the Armor DM against BD is +0. Sounds to me like the author, Bob Barger, felt that the flamer would be effective even against sealed armor.
As an aside, I've been reading Andre Norton's Star Soldiers and Space Rangers recently, and both books included hand flamers as a mainstay weapon for space and ground forces. I wonder why they weren't included in the CT weapons lists?
As an aside, I've been reading Andre Norton's Star Soldiers and Space Rangers recently, and both books included hand flamers as a mainstay weapon for space and ground forces. I wonder why they weren't included in the CT weapons lists?
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