Rules Only: Forward Observer

[Supplement Four]

I bet this is an old topic. I can't be the first one to wonder about this skill. In fact, I'm sure of it.

Why the heck is it included in the game? Why is it a part of the core list of skills for the game? I can understand if it were introduced in Book 4, but what use can it possibly be to a Book 1-3/Starter Traveller/Traveller Book based game?

It seems so out of place. Every other skill in the core list of skills is useful to a basic Traveller character. Yeah, Jack O Trades and Tactics are a little vague in their description, but I can see their uses by standard Traveller characters in all sorts of game.

But, Forward Observer seems to be a skill used in a military campaign and useful in other types of Traveller games. For example, I don't see it useful in a standard Tramp Freighter Full of Mercenaries type game.

Unless...

Unless...

Is Forward Observer necessary for Ortillery? Are starship sensors not senstive enough to fire at targets on the surface of a world from orbit? Must a Tramp Freighter Captain have one of his own men on the ground, with Forward Observer skill in order to use the ship's turrets against ground targets?

That doesn't seem likely to me....but, it's an idea.

What's your thoughts. Why is FO in the game? How can it be used by your standard Traveller Player Character?

 

[atpollard]

Favoring LBB2 as a personal starting point (actually The Traveller Book), I thought about what a person actually needed to DO to employ the Forward Observer skill ...

The player needs to move undetected through enemy terrain, spot targets without being seen, and communicate accurate information on pinpoint location to remote "gunners".​

That sounds a lot like the functions associated with the skill of Recon in LBB4. So I always just treated FO like Recon in LBB2. What would a PC do with Recon skill?

 

[Supplement Four]

Favoring LBB2 as a personal starting point (actually The Traveller Book), I thought about what a person actually needed to DO to employ the Forward Observer skill ...

The player needs to move undetected through enemy terrain, spot targets without being seen, and communicate accurate information on pinpoint location to remote "gunners".​

That sounds a lot like the functions associated with the skill of Recon in LBB4. So I always just treated FO like Recon in LBB2. What would a PC do with Recon skill?

Interesting point, but I'm not sure I buy that FO would serve as a stealth skill. The actual act of Forward Observing has to do with terrain depth estimation, using comms, and adjusting fire.

I mean, we don't give stalking skills to characters who have the Sniper Rifle-1 skill.

 

[mike wightman]

A forward observer also has skills of camouflage and concealment. I too use it as an outdoor stealth skill and roll the recon skill into it to prevent skill bloat. You can also use it for land navigation, map analysis, that sort of thing.

 

[aramis]

A forward observer also has skills of camouflage and concealment. I too use it as an outdoor stealth skill and roll the recon skill into it to prevent skill bloat. You can also use it for land navigation, map analysis, that sort of thing.

I never used it for camo, but definitely for orienteering, map analysis, and battlefield perception ("What's that unit there?")

 

[Reban]

Why the heck is it included in the game? Why is it a part of the core list of skills for the game?

Wasn't Marc in the Artillery during his time in the Army? I've always thought his service must have influenced a lot of the way traveller does military.

But, Forward Observer seems to be a skill used in a military campaign and useful in other types of Traveller games. For example, I don't see it useful in a standard Tramp Freighter Full of Mercenaries type game.

Unless...

Unless...

Is Forward Observer necessary for Ortillery? Are starship sensors not senstive enough to fire at targets on the surface of a world from orbit? Must a Tramp Freighter Captain have one of his own men on the ground, with Forward Observer skill in order to use the ship's turrets against ground targets?

That doesn't seem likely to me....but, it's an idea.

What's your thoughts. Why is FO in the game? How can it be used by your standard Traveller Player Character?

I see Forward Observer as the natural amalgamation of the skills of the Forward Observation Officer for artillery and the Forward Air Controller for air support, plus other broadly reconnaissance/surveillance based skills.

The way modern artillery has developed with the use of guided munitions you would think it would be very easy for an ordinary ground pounder to send back the GPS co-ordinates of the enemy to the guns supporting him and wait for the explosion.

However no matter how smart a weapon is it will always have a circular area of probability or CEP, a circular area where the weapon is expected to land. So choosing the point of aim is important.

Choosing the nature of the weapon is also important. Troops in the open require different fuse settings or warheads than troops in bunkers.

Local conditions and how they will affect the fire mission take on a new set of things to take account of in Traveller when you consider variable gravity and atmosphere.

The FO is the expert in the loop making these decisions.

I'll point out here that the FO doesn't have to be observing the enemy from the nearest ridge. i can't see any reason why he or she can't be sitting in front of a screen observing via a drone or starship senors to do their job.

The FAC role or Forward Aerospace Controller role substitutes aircraft or spacecraft for the gun line. In my opinion the FO should have knowledge of how to communicate with and direct anything up to a spacecraft in orbit.

This doesn't just relate to dropping bombs and ordnance. The military FO could do the job of the combat ground controller, directing drops of men or cargo into an area from air or spacecraft.

Here's a civilian role for the FO. He's just like the guy on the building site that directs the crane driver when to lift, move, and land a load.

When that Modular Cutter comes in to hover and release a module for the new base the guy with the FO skill can insure it comes in safe and in the proper place to be linked up immediately.

In the T5 version there's also mention of familiarity with beacons, the placing and use of them for guidence. As well as the military applications I can see covert agents needing to place tracking beacon on vehicle or ships, or Belters placing beacons on claim asteroids.

FO's are observant controllers and directors who can communicate information that allows two objects in motion to meet.

 

[atpollard]

Interesting point, but I'm not sure I buy that FO would serve as a stealth skill. The actual act of Forward Observing has to do with terrain depth estimation, using comms, and adjusting fire.

I mean, we don't give stalking skills to characters who have the Sniper Rifle-1 skill.

In LBB2, who DO we give "stalking skills" to?

(It comes down to the issue of broad or narrow skill definition.)

 

[Ulsyus]

Why the heck is it included in the game? Why is it a part of the core list of skills for the game? I can understand if it were introduced in Book 4, but what use can it possibly be to a Book 1-3/Starter Traveller/Traveller Book based game?
...

Is Forward Observer necessary for Ortillery? Are starship sensors not senstive enough to fire at targets on the surface of a world from orbit? Must a Tramp Freighter Captain have one of his own men on the ground, with Forward Observer skill in order to use the ship's turrets against ground targets?

Artillery is a pretty technical branch, and there's a lot of things they do which are carried out by other corps, but they train and practice doing them a little more precisely given that the packages they deliver need to be on target on time and any mistakes can be particularly unforgiving. The Ortillery point is well made, and has good application.

Also, consider that there are to this day still unfortunate incidents of friendly fire. Those tend not to happen, or the risk reduces significantly if there's an FO on the spot. There's a tendency to try replicate their role with drones, but at this point they still don't do as good a job as an FO, though they can go places that you wouldn't try to put an FO.

Favoring LBB2 as a personal starting point (actually The Traveller Book), I thought about what a person actually needed to DO to employ the Forward Observer skill ...

The player needs to move undetected through enemy terrain, spot targets without being seen, and communicate accurate information on pinpoint location to remote "gunners".​

That sounds a lot like the functions associated with the skill of Recon in LBB4. So I always just treated FO like Recon in LBB2. What would a PC do with Recon skill?

Recon is a different skillset to an FO, though they're both interchangeable to a certain extent. Recon operators, which range from guys who've done the four week course at their battalion through to the most special of guys wearing sandy coloured berets, are out there to do a lot of stuff about collecting info and getting it back. Being able to call-for-fire is an all-corps skill that all warfighters, at least in the army I'm most familiar with, are trained to do from privates upwards. Recon operators would probably spend more time practicing it based on the importance of it being able to assist them breaking contact (bad for recon unless they initiate it). An FO has to be able to move, unseen, to the point they're going to use for observing from. They use the same skillset as the recon guys in that regard, but they'd practice it far less, as they spend more time working on their primary skillset - getting the right fire onto the right spot at the right time.

 

[Supplement Four]

In LBB2, who DO we give "stalking skills" to?

(It comes down to the issue of broad or narrow skill definition.)

DEX.

I believe in broad skill definition for CT skills. But, by definition, FO seems to be very narrow to me--and a stretch to adapt to stealth.

 

[mike wightman]

A forward observer who is not adept at camouflage, concealment and stealth is a very dead forward observer.
They have a very similar skill set to sniper teams, in a lot of cases sniper teams will get the job of forward obs.

Then there are the special forces forward observers...

 

[Supplement Four]

The skill just seems so out of place to me. Every other skill in the core list has a use for a standard Traveller character. But, even in a Mercenary based game, FO would seem to be a skill not needed by most PCs. It's place seems more appropriate for a Striker character (the game), where small units and military skills are featured.

I'd say that FO is a great candidate to use as a replacement spot for other skills the Ref may want to make available during chargen. FO appears twice on the chargen charts, once on the Navy and once on the Army Service Skills Chart.

 

[Supplement Four]

A forward observer who is not adept at camouflage, concealment and stealth is a very dead forward observer.
They have a very similar skill set to sniper teams, in a lot of cases sniper teams will get the job of forward obs.

Then there are the special forces forward observers...

I do see that side of the argument, but you've also got to look at who gets the skill in the core chargen tables.

If the FO skill is meant to be used as a defacto Stealth skill, then why do only Navy and Army get one chance at it? I would think the Marines would be a great career for possible expertise in Stealth. I'm thinking Marine Recon here.

Same goes for the Scouts. I bet those guys are sneaking around in dangerous places all the time.

And, what about the Other career? That background seems to be geared towards a criminal element. Criminals are sometimes master stalkers.

This is why I think stealth is not necessarily covered by a skill in basic CT. It's a function of the character's attribute, DEX, in the same fashion that you'd use DEX to climb a narrow catwalk or cross on a high wire.

 

[mike wightman]

Scouts are not military - paramilitary at best.

Navy get it for ortillery purposes, while Army get it because that's what Army does.

Marines don't get it because LBB:1 marines are ship troops for boarding actions, shock troops for drops from orbit - note they can get forward obs in LBB:4.

Marines: Members of the armed fighting forces carried aboard starships. Marines
deal with piracy and boarding actions in space, defend the starports and bases
belonging to the navy, and supplement other ground forces such as the army.

It's a limitation of only having four skill tables that they try to keep different.

These days I let players pick a variety of skills based on what they roll and their character concept - e.g. if they roll vehicle or vac suit in the army or marines they may opt to take it as battledress instead. So if a player wanted a marine with forward obs skill from basic character generation I would just let them swap out a similar skill.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

I have been using FO for the following type of character:
JTAC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_terminal_attack_controller

Not sure if it is ideal; however, it seemed like it fit.

 

[Supplement Four]

Scouts are not military - paramilitary at best.

Navy get it for ortillery purposes, while Army get it because that's what Army does.

Marines don't get it because LBB:1 marines are ship troops for boarding actions, shock troops for drops from orbit - note they can get forward obs in LBB:4.

That's my point. It's not really suited to be a stealth skill.

 

[Brandon C]

Part of the problem is that in LBB1-3 the only artillery is beam lasers, pulse lasers and missiles. There simply isn't enough artillery/ortillery in those first three books to justify inclusion of Forward Observer.

OTOH, the skill fits with the hardware in Books 4 and 5, so characters created with those books, or if Book 1 characters have access to Book 4 artillery and Book 5 ortillery, the skill is okay.

 

[Condottiere]

Forward air control is the provision of guidance to close air support (CAS)[1] aircraft intended to ensure that their attack hits the intended target and does not injure friendly troops. This task is carried out by a forward air controller (FAC).[2]
A primary forward air control function is ensuring the safety of friendly troops during close air support. Enemy targets in the front line ("Forward Edge of the Battle Area" in US terminology) are often close to friendly forces and therefore friendly forces are at risk of friendly fire through proximity during air attack. The danger is twofold: the bombing pilot cannot identify the target clearly, and is not aware of the locations of friendly forces. Camouflage, a constantly changing situation and the fog of war all increase the risk. Present day doctrine holds that Forward Air Controllers (FACs) are not needed for air interdiction, although there has been such use of FACs in the past.

In British Army usage, a Fire Support Team (FST) is responsible for directing artillery fire and close air support (ground attack by attack aircraft) onto enemy positions.[1] The term FST replaced the previous name of Forward Observation Party and reflects the inclusion of fires other than artillery into their control.
The FST can comprise six people:[2]
A FST Commander
The Team 2IC (second in command) - known as an Ack.
A Forward Air Controller to terminally control Close Air Support (CAS) and manage airspace.
Signallers
Drivers

Basically, two different skills that allow the direction of other support units, and the capability to remain unnoticed by the opposition.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Why the heck is it included in the game? ...

Is Forward Observer necessary for Ortillery? Are starship sensors not senstive enough to fire at targets on the surface of a world from orbit? Must a Tramp Freighter Captain have one of his own men on the ground, with Forward Observer skill in order to use the ship's turrets against ground targets?

That is how I have always run it.

Ortillery might be able to fire at a city, or even a large building if there are no clouds, but not into a tactical situation. If the players want to fire a ship's laser at machine gun nest that is pinning them down or a tank they need FO procedure.

 

[Supplement Four]

That is how I have always run it.

Ortillery might be able to fire at a city, or even a large building if there are no clouds, but not into a tactical situation. If the players want to fire a ship's laser at machine gun nest that is pinning them down or a tank they need FO procedure.

That's something to think about. And, I like the comment above by Brandon C about including the skill for use with Book 4 (and, I guess, Striker, too).

How precise is starship targeting in CT? I guess we could look at the starship combat system. The Selective Program allows targeting only two parts of a ship, so maybe that does say something about firing from orbit.

This is the best answer to the FO question that I've heard. You've got to have a man on the ground in order to hit something fairly small, like a ground car--though hitting a single family dwelling should be easy if you don't mind sloppy targeting.

 

[Major B]

A forward observer who is not adept at camouflage, concealment and stealth is a very dead forward observer.
They have a very similar skill set to sniper teams, in a lot of cases sniper teams will get the job of forward obs.

Then there are the special forces forward observers...

Good points both. The skill description for FO sounds very much like the description of a spotter with the emphasis on camouflage and concealed movement. Here is a bit more information on the skill sets of those who do this type of stuff now that may help the discussion:

First, snipers normally work with a spotter who can help them with weather readings needed for fine adjustments to their scope and can also observe the strike of rounds fired and help the sniper adjust fire. They are adept in camouflage and commo and can also call for and adjust fire (like any other infantryman is taught this basic skill) or can do surveillance for you.

An Army FO is an artilleryman on loan to the infantry who can call for and adjust artillery and mortars and can also help a commander plan targets to support the mission. Calling fire on a planned target is quicker than adjusting on the fly. He probably does not have the stealth skills in the FO task description.

If you want air support you want an Air Force FAC (Forward Air Controller) either standing next to you or in a spotter aircraft overhead.

USMC FOs are from one of the ANGLICOs (Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Companies) and they are very skilled with USMC and Naval air support and calling fire from ships. Naval gunfire is tricky because they are guns, not howitzers or mortars that have a higher trajectory. Guns have a greater tendency to fire short or long so if you are standing near the line between the gun and the target, you really want to have that marine calling fire for you.

Hope that helps.