Fourth tree stump from the sun...

[BluWolf]

In many o' espionage, smuggeling, crime caper type stories you see folks using the "secret drop off" as away to smuggle items or communicate superstitiously.

Can you do this in space? Could a smuggeler jump into a system, place the cargo (with appropriate protection) into space, record the coordinates, then head on to his/her destination??

 

[GBoyett]

Originally posted by BluWolf:
In many o' espionage, smuggeling, crime caper type stories you see folks using the "secret drop off" as away to smuggle items or communicate superstitiously.

Can you do this in space? Could a smuggeler jump into a system, place the cargo (with appropriate protection) into space, record the coordinates, then head on to his/her destination??

Yes. You also need to give vector and speed as the object will have whatever momentum you ship had during the drop off.

 

[phydaux]

I don't think it could be reliably done without some sort of beacon, and that would defeat the whole "secret" part, wouldn't it?

 

[pauldrye]

Sure you can, you just need to use your head.

Assuming you could fill in the contact with the following information I'd:

- Have it broadcast at a very narrow frequency, well off the ones normally used for ship-board communications. It's unlikely that anyone would be listening to that exact frequency for no reason.

AND

- Have it periodically broadcast for very short periods of time, perhaps a tenth of a second or so. That way even if someone picks it up, they won't be able to triangulate it unless they have access to two or more distantly spaced antennas.

So this way, the contact sits in his ship in space and listens to, I dunno, 982.76 MHz for a few hours. He hears the blip and gets a directional fix on it. Move the ship a few million kilometers, listen for the blip again and get another fix.

Bingo. Source triangulated and away you go. You'd probably have to listen for a third blip once you were in the general vicinity, but by then you'd be close enough to triangulate it with two or more sensors on your ship. *That* should get you within a few meters.

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by phydaux:
I don't think it could be reliably done without some sort of beacon, and that would defeat the whole "secret" part, wouldn't it?

If you know the characteristics of the package's orbit precisely enough, you don't need any sort of beacon.

If you do need some help, give it a transponder. It only transmits when someone interrogates it on the right frequency with the right code, and even then at relatively low power, so the pick-up ship has to be in the right neighborhood first.

 

[themink]

There are lots of airless planets out there (probably at least half a dozen for each mainworld) - These also make great places to stash stuff - They are easy to identify and contain enough terrain that you can narrow in on the victim.

Space is so big that trying to get close to a target based solely on "last know" is practically impossible IMTU.

As for using a narrow frequency or low power - it depends how thoroughly examined the system is. If you tried to do this stunt near a scout training facility, then would identify you fairly quickly. Of course, if the radiating source were out in the Ooort cloud, then you can have an hour or two to pick it up before the raditating signal gets to the inner system - of course if you do it a lot, people will start to set traps.

Do you want to pick the thing up safely or do you want the people on the star never to know you were there? These are two different sorts of things.

Why do you have to do this near a star - why not use an arbitary point in open space (Does you jump drive work like that or does it only come out of jump space when you get close to the 100D limit?

 

[pauldrye]

Originally posted by The Mink:
As for using a narrow frequency or low power - it depends how thoroughly examined the system is. If you tried to do this stunt near a scout training facility, then would identify you fairly quickly.

Low power, perhaps. Narrow frequency, almost definitely not. There's a reason SETI@home's been sifting through frequencies for years: there's a LOT of bandwidth when you don't know for what you're looking. Haystacks and needles don't even begin....

Pick a narrow frequency off the ones used for regular traffic, and the only people who are going to hear your message will be the people who have the right one.

 

[pauldrye]

Originally posted by The Mink:
Why do you have to do this near a star - why not use an arbitary point in open space (Does you jump drive work like that or does it only come out of jump space when you get close to the 100D limit?

We were arguing about this over on JTAS' boards, as part of the discussion with Jon Zeigler about how the "jump routes" in the old Imperium board game could be made reasonable for the Interstellar Wars project.

He has, so far as anyone on the outside can tell, settled on the solution that jumps into empty space aren't possible during the Interstellar Wars period, but that the math and technology have advanced enough by the "modern-day" Third Imperium to make them routine. There are several examples of empty space jumps in canon.

 

[trader jim]

Thanx folks I just printed out all of this. Great stuff...got me thinking....i will use it in my campaignes

 

[Liam Devlin]

Great subject Bluwolf!!!!
The Dark Trade (Piracy)
The Grey Trade (Smuggling)...

All utilize drop-offs and pick ups in out of the way places. Trojan points are excellent hideouts for either, especially Pirates, or the LeGrange points.

systems with asteroid belts with sizeable airless rocks to land on with the SHip's subcraft (ala ancient rowboat-buryin treasure--arr!).

Technology allows you to use beacons, transponders, or just the pilot's hand written coordinates (X on the map marks the spot!).
Groups using this drop-off pick up style to avoid customs are merchandise dependent. Is the stuff in a powered/ non powered container? Livestock or frozen humans ie, ned a power source, Basic LS, etc in their pods. Noon perishable goods in unpowered containers are even more difficult to spot.
Care in terrain site is also a sensor op factor.

The velocity drop off takes place with groups, and knowing the approach vector/ release velocity comes in handy. Trickier, not fer inexperienced smuggleers--off by a wee bit, and yer cargo can travel out of system in a few centuries--or into a star. Low freq tranmitter beacons preferred. Scrambled freq hop style TL-8. harder to fix. (ala Army SINGCARS system)- off by Time outside of two minute window-you get nothing but static.

 

[Cleon the Mad]

Paul_Drye posted this in part:

"He has, so far as anyone on the outside can tell, settled on the solution that jumps into empty space aren't possible during the Interstellar Wars period, but that the math and technology have advanced enough by the "modern-day" Third Imperium to make them routine. There are several examples of empty space jumps in canon.
"

But if they weren't possible in the Interstellar Wars period, doesn't this make the initial Terran expidition to Barnard's Star impossible? That took a Jump-2, Terra had just figured out a semi-practical Jump-1, and even if you count a jump to a deep space refeuling station as not a true deep space jump, SOMETHING had to initially jump into deep space to get the fuel there, and if left as a station the people there to man it. If there was no deep space refeuling depot, then they carried at least enough fuel for two jump-1's, jumped once into deep space, and then jumped again to Barnard's Star. Regardless, someone had to do a deep space jump with a ship that would have been an early TL9 prototype.

Me

 

[pauldrye]

Originally posted by Cleon the Mad:
But if they weren't possible in the Interstellar Wars period, doesn't this make the initial Terran expidition to Barnard's Star impossible?

There are to be, I believe, two or three known rogue planets or brown dwarfs or whatever that allow jumps into very specific "empty" hexes.

Originally *that* was supposed to be a solution for Abaldawi's winning campaign in the Eighth War, which at first seemed to have some impossible fleet movements. Jon came up with a way to reconcile canon there without any such contortions, but the idea popped up again in this instance, and a couple of others.

It's also the explanation why the first expedition went to Barnard instead of the closer and infinitely more-promising Alpha Centauri.

 

[Bishop]

Originally posted by phydaux:
I don't think it could be reliably done without some sort of beacon, and that would defeat the whole "secret" part, wouldn't it?

Not at all, all you have to do is have the beacon listen for a trigger code before it goes active and then have it broadcast a single burst response on a narrow frequency. The response could include encrypted current location and vector information.
T.

 

[Cleon the Mad]

Paul_Drye posted this recently:

"There are to be, I believe, two or three known rogue planets or brown dwarfs or whatever that allow jumps into very specific "empty" hexes.

Originally *that* was supposed to be a solution for Abaldawi's winning campaign in the Eighth War, which at first seemed to have some impossible fleet movements. Jon came up with a way to reconcile canon there without any such contortions, but the idea popped up again in this instance, and a couple of others.

It's also the explanation why the first expedition went to Barnard instead of the closer and infinitely more-promising Alpha Centauri.
"

Interesting. Are these brown dwarves/rogue planets pending Traveller Canon, or is there current astronomical proof of said objects between here and Barnard's Star also? I'm presuming they are "just" Traveller Canon right now.

Also makes me wonder how small an object can be to qualify as a natural calibration point or whatever one would want to call such a thing...would something on the order of the size of Pluto be big enough, or would it have to be larger?

Me

 

[Liam Devlin]

Cleon the Mad sez-"Interesting. Are these brown dwarves/rogue planets pending Traveller Canon, or is there current astronomical proof of said objects between here and Barnard's Star also? I'm presuming they are "just" Traveller Canon right now.

Also makes me wonder how small an object can be to qualify as a natural calibration point or whatever one would want to call such a thing...would something on the order of the size of Pluto be big enough, or would it have to be larger?

Me"

___________________________________________
Trav Digest #21, 1990, pp17-26, "The Pirates of Tetrini", an adventure that takes place in Zarushagar in MT/ Rebellion era out of Duchy Of Oasis.
The Pirate base is on a small planet in the K/Wolf-subsector, involving one such Brown Dwarf in the midst of the spinward gulf in that subsector.-author Greg Videll.

--there's a canon source fer you.
gotta run guys..