Gazelle and Fiery

[Garyius2003]

How the heck is the Gazelle Jump 4, and the newer better Fiery Jump-3?

Nice work, Mongoose.

 

[Matt123]

Not sure about MGT, but in CT the Gazelle utilises a drop tank, making the ship displace 100tn less on jump (300tn), increasing the range of its jump drive.

OTHO the Fiery has the same tankage permanently mounted & armoured. (400tn)

In CT both classes (Fiery is a varient of the Gazelle) are capable of J4. The Gazelle if it dops its drop tank on jump, is capable of J5. If it drops it before combat its MD & Agility also goes up. In both cases the drop tank needs to be refitted, a new one is needed at the jump destination. CT is 'vague' as to whether the drop tank is still usable at the jump site it was dropped at or damaged by the jump energies.

Obviously MGT may vary from CT in some details tho.

Regards
Matt

 

[Starviking]

That is weird, and also a bit infuriating as the Fiery is one of the coolest ships in Traveller Canon.

 

[Garyius2003]

Still not happy, I was going to try a Mongoose adventure and the Fiery has always been more fun for PCs because it can land. However, it blows my storyline if the Fiery can't be with a standard fleet element.

Mongoose just screwed up here.

 

[Starviking]

Still not happy, I was going to try a Mongoose adventure and the Fiery has always been more fun for PCs because it can land. However, it blows my storyline if the Fiery can't be with a standard fleet element.

Mongoose just screwed up here.

Then you should consider it an error and just up the printed MGT jump number to 4.

You are the GM - you're the boss

 

[Garyius2003]

Mongoose has so much promise, just like GURPS. Where Gurps quit the field, Mongoose just half asses it and keeps printing.

 

[rancke]

Still not happy, I was going to try a Mongoose adventure and the Fiery has always been more fun for PCs because it can land. However, it blows my storyline if the Fiery can't be with a standard fleet element.

Never forget that a roleplaying game is a reflection of reality. How many historical RPGs do you know of that got everything right? OK, Traveller universes being fictitious, Traveller reality is sorta flexible, but so what? You decide for yourself what is reality for your TU, and if the rules says otherwise, the rules are wrong, at least for your universe[*].

[*] Though in this particular case, I think it's wrong for most TUs. Of course a Fiery is capable of jump-4[**]! That's not the main point, though.

[**] Or did Mongoose change the ship design rules to make it impossible to fit a jump-4 drive into a Fiery?​

Hans

 

[far-trader]

I don't know how much this will help but my take on the Fiery has always been that it is a Gazelle at heart. Same deckplan, same gear, same performance for the 400tons. The difference being that the Fiery is rebuilt by first ditching the drop tanks, replacing them with conformal tanks built to make the ship streamlined. Trading atmospheric performance for less versatility and the higher performance allowed by dropping the tanks.

So in your case, if the MGT Gazelle fits your concept, just use that changing the drop tanks to hard tankage and the hull to fully streamlined. Call the MGT Fiery something else in your TU and use the Fiery name for the altered Gazelle in your TU.

 

[Britti_Lover]

A Fiery is a 400 ton gunned escort from MegaTraveller:

Ship: Fiery
Class: Fiery
Type: Gunned Escort
Architect: Frank Chadwick
Tech Level: 14

USP
CE-4144462-300000-40000-0 MCr 348.868 400 Tons
Bat Bear 4 Crew: 11
Bat 4 TL: 14

Cargo: 5.600 Fuel: 180 EP: 39 Agility: 0
Craft: 1 x 20T Gig
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 3.489 Cost in Quantity: MCr 279.094

Detailed Description
(T20 Design)

HULL
400.000 tons standard, 5,600.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration, 100.000 Structure Points

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 3 Engineers, Medic, 4 Gunners, 1 Flight Crew

ENGINEERING
Jump-4, 4G Manuever, 39.000 Ton Power Plant, 39.000 EP, Agility 0

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/6 Computer, Model/2 Flight Avionics, Model/6 Sensors, Model/6 Communications

HARDPOINTS
4 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
4 Triple Beam Laser Turrets organised into 4 Batteries (Factor-4)

DEFENCES
Armoured Hull (Factor-3)

CRAFT
1 20.000 ton Gig (Crew of 1, Cost of MCr 0.000)

FUEL
180 Tons Fuel (4 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
6 Staterooms, 5.600 Tons Cargo

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None

COST
MCr 352.357 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 3.489), MCr 279.094 in Quantity (Hardpoints and Turrets charged)

CONSTRUCTION TIME
82 Weeks Singly, 65 Weeks in Quantity


http://visionforgestudios.com/jesse/traveller/finished_fiery.htm

It is jump-4 without drop tanks.

---------------------------------------------------------------

A Gazelle is a 330ton close escort that is jump-2 without drop tanks:

This ship is an old CT design from about 1979.

Close Escort, Type CE, TL 14, MCr301.37

Hull: 387/968, Disp=330, Config=1SL, Armor=49G, Unloaded=7,080tons, Loaded=7,340tons

Power: 55/110, Fusion=7,400Mw, Duration=15

Loco: 38/76, M-Drive(1)=4, M-Drive(2)=5, 16/32, J-Drive(1)=2,Vacuum(1)=3,400kph, Vacuum(2)=3,840kph, Top=1,000kph, Cruise=750kph, NOE=190kph, Agility=0

Commo: Radio=System

Sensors: EMMask, PassiveEMS=Interstellar, ActiveEMS=FarOrbit, Densitometer=HighPen/1km, Neutrino=10kw, EMSJammer=FarOrbit, ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PasObjScan=Rout, PasObjPin=Rout, PasEngScan=Simp, PasEngPin=Rout

Off: PAWS 0 0 1 BLaser x x 4
Batt . . 2 Batt . . 2
Bear . . 2 Bear . . 2

Def: DefDM=+5

Control: Computer=6 x3, Panel=HoloLink x529, Special=HUD x5

Environ: BasicEnv, BasicLS, ExtendLS, GravPlates, InertialComp, Comfort=3.20
Accomm: Crew=10, (Bridge=2, Engineer=2, Gunnery=4, Command=1, Medical=1), Stateroom=8

SubCraft: Horizon class Gig

Other: Cargo=81kliters, Fuel=2,500kliters, FuelScoops, PurificationPlant, ObjSize=Average, EMLevel=Faint

http://members.pcug.org.au/~davidjw/libdata/alphabet/g/gazelle.htm

I myself don't see why you can't add drop tanks to the fiery class ship.

 

[WarriorKnight]

A Fiery is a 400 ton gunned escort from MegaTraveller:

Actually the Fiery is a CT ship.It was listed as a varaion of the Gazelle in Traders & Gunboats.

 

[Buzzsaw]

In TNE's Brilliant Lances, the Gazelle is listed as Jump 3 with tanks, 5 without. Its also 3G with, and 5G without tanks.

The Fiery is jump 4 and 4G. And the notes say "Streamlined variant of the Gazelle-class"

Of course, everyone seems to ignore TNE

 

[aramis]

In TNE's Brilliant Lances, the Gazelle is listed as Jump 3 with tanks, 5 without. Its also 3G with, and 5G without tanks.

The Fiery is jump 4 and 4G. And the notes say "Streamlined variant of the Gazelle-class"

Of course, everyone seems to ignore TNE

Because TNE is quite obviously a different universe... :devil:

The differences in the nature of the universe render merchants incapable of a routine 2-week cycle; it's about 3 weeks ignoring stellar blocking.

But again, the fiery is misrepresented in TNE; it's not just SL, it's also a J4 internal tankage design, so it shouldn't be using the same drives.

 

[Starviking]

Because TNE is quite obviously a different universe... :devil:

The differences in the nature of the universe render merchants incapable of a routine 2-week cycle; it's about 3 weeks ignoring stellar blocking.

But again, the fiery is misrepresented in TNE; it's not just SL, it's also a J4 internal tankage design, so it shouldn't be using the same drives.

Yes, but considering how the ships have changed over the Traveller generations that can hardly be a cause for complaint - especially so when the first detailing of the Fiery in Traveller had J4.

The history is interesting from a design perspective:

Gazelle (CT): 300dT + 100dT Tanks.
400dT - J4, G4. Tanks used - J5, G5, No Tanks - J2, G5.

Fiery (CT): Just mentioned as being streamlined version of the Gazelle - so J4, G4.


Gazelle (MT): 330dT + 100dT Tanks.
J5, G5 given - no indication if this is at 430 or 330dT in the text of the Imperial Encyclopedia.

Fiery (MT): 400dt.
J4, G4 - same as CT


Gazelle (TNE):300dT + 100dT Tanks.
J3, G3 with tanks - J5, G5 without.

Fiery (TNE): 400dT
J4, G4 - just as CT.

So it could be said that the MT and TNE Gazelles are the odd balls in the collection - as they deviate most from the CT original.