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General H&E output contradicts online material (Traveller map and wiki)

R

Redcap

SOC-13
Baron
Folks:

I have a Canonicity problem.

I'm currently writing a tournament adventure, and the kick-off system for it, Dentus (SM2201), is presenting problems.

Using Heaven & Earth, the data output shows a system of mainly uninhabitable or marginally habitable worlds and moons, mostly ice-bound, with one just-about habitable moon (wild temperature variations).

However.

The Traveller Map says something completely different by referring to the wiki, at http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Dentus_(world), which also links to a Land Grab from 2003 by Greg Videll (pdf).

In all cases, the URLs used are canon. It's merely the output that's utterly contradictory.

I'd LIKE to use the output from H&E, obviously, but this is for a Tourny adventure, and I have to remain as canon as possible (pre-FFW timeline, uses 2e MgT rules set).

Anyone have advice for me, please?

Cheers in advance!
 
You can ignore the Racoonids as they are from the group I've played Traveller with for going on 25 years and are not even slightly Canon. I had no idea they had found their way into the Wiki.

The Traveller Map is a Canon resource for those sectors marked as "Official", but only so far as it goes. Which is just the one-line UWP. Traveller Map is host to Marc's most recent data, so stellar data should start there, and if any radical UWP changes have been made since CT, Traveller Map will have the changes Marc wishes to keep.

Of the references listed, SMC and the Regency Sourcebook are generally considered to take precedence over the GURPS book, for various reasons.

Last I checked, H&E generates system details procedurally instead of having a vast internal archive or referring to an external one.

Similarly, a Land Grab that has not seen official publication remains a Fan work.
 
Hi,

Thanks for the swift response. OK on the Racoonids, appreciate the heads up on that. Yeah, the UWPs seem unchanged, and H&E does produce data procedurally, rather than from a database. Regards books, MgT2e is fairly close to the LBBs for the Spinward Marches basic data (their supplement book), at least. I'll double check the entry in the .HES file anyhow, but I don't think there's any difference.

I'll also compare the basic data on the Traveller Map with the H&S data, and try to reconcile in favour of the TM.

Thanks again for the fast reply :)
 
Redcap said:
OK on the Racoonids, appreciate the heads up on that.
Click to expand...

Now, if the idea of the Raccoonids is something you wanted to use, you could treat them as a smaller branch of the Ursa, a Terran uplift that escaped termination during the early Long Night and fled deep into what is now Imperial space. They are known to be in Ley and Fornast, but also appear in Corridor. Two individuals are in the Marches (T5's Cirque campaign). Another offshoot that was either uplifted directly from Raccoons or shrank due to resource scarcity during the Long Night is not particularly maverick.

And we all know how popular a certain uplifted Raccoon has been recently...
 
Thread ressurrection time.

Ignoring Mr Driscoll's dismissive and thoroughly unhelpful comment above, I still have a problem (a fresh world, for a fresh adventure, too) with world generation.

All generators seem to agree that a certain G9v star can't have a decently temperate garden world in its habitable zone (orbit #2). All the worlds cooked up (or at least mildy defrosted) seem to be ice worlds of one form or another, this when using H&E, Explanator, and others. I even tried using the DGP MT World Builder's handbook too, manually. Same problem, but slower.

The problem is that Travellermap, the Wiki, et other canon sources, all say that this particular world IS a garden world, which lends to the ideal of a nice temperate planet, much like Terra (std Oxy/Nytro atmos, if a fair bit smaller, and a smidgen less hydro percentage).

So. Ideas on fixing the issue, while providing some decent material with which to map the place?

Cheers in advance :)
 
Change the star type to match what you need, and forget about the generators. I decide the planet first, and then worry, if at all, about what star type is required, or what the rest of the system is like.
 
Interesting method. Not entirely sure I agree (not so much bending the rules with a pipe-bender, as smashing them to bits with a nail-headed club!), but I'll remember it if nothing else comes forward! :) Thanks :)
 
Another option is to move the world in some what. If it is orbit 1.7 does the world become any more habitable? This is still orbit 2 technically. But it may be warm enough to be garden like at the equator.
 
Hmm. Not sure the automatic generators can do that, but the manual side should be able to fudge that; thanks; I'll give it a go.
 
Redcap said:
Interesting method. Not entirely sure I agree (not so much bending the rules with a pipe-bender, as smashing them to bits with a nail-headed club!), but I'll remember it if nothing else comes forward! :) Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I go with the Gygax dictum of "rules are guidelines, not written in stone." I have been modifying rules for something like 30 years plus now. Some I modify more than others. I view Traveller as a means of exploring planets where you could find yourself conversing with Sherlock Holmes, dueling with John Carter, looking for sunstones with Jack Holloway, dickering over a ship's passage with Captain Jellicoe, arguing over landing on a possible plague planet with Calhoun of the Med Service, or discovering that the teenagers you have taken about are from the planet of Karres.

Karres sort of gives it away that it is unusual by orbiting whatever star it is at presently in the opposite direction of all of the other planets in the star system.
 
Oh, I follow that 'guidelines' methodology for games IMTU, but for convention games, I have to be a tad more picky, sadly.

And yeah, meeting the discoverer of the Fuzzies would generate some truly astounding stories (OK, pun intended ;) )
 
BINGO.

Explanator (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=37500) to the rescue.

TEMPERATURES PER HEXROW (HR) in C:

Year length : 0.64 Terra = 310 planetary days

Code: 
HR  Spring     77   Summer    77   Autumn    77   Winter    77   

 1   37  32  23  37  32  23  37  32  23  37  32  23 

 2   31  26  17  31  26  17  31  26  17  31  26  17 

 3   25  20  11  28  24  15  25  20  11  18  14   5 

 4   19  14   5  26  22  13  19  14   5   6   2  -8 

 5   13   8  -1  24  19  10  13   8  -1  -6 -11 -20 

 6    7   2  -7  22  17   8   7   2  -7 -19 -23 -32 

 7    1  -4 -13  16  11   2   1  -4 -13 -25 -29 -38 

 8   -6 -10 -19  10   5  -4  -6 -10 -19 -31 -35 -44 

 9  -12 -16 -25   4  -1 -10 -12 -16 -25 -37 -41 -50 

10  -18 -22 -31  -3  -7 -16 -18 -22 -31 -43 -47 -56 

11  -24 -28 -37  -9 -13 -22 -24 -28 -37 -49 -53 -62 
      :    :    : 
      :    :    :      Length of day          18: 0 
      :    :    : 
      :    :    L......Deepest Night temp at   4:00 
      :    L............Medium values at        8:00 and 15:00 
      L..................Highest Noon temp at   11:00


NOTE - In the above chart:

Row 1 = hex row numbers
Rows 2-4 = Spring day/medium/night temperatures
Rows 5-7 = Summer day/medium/night temperatures
Rows 8-10 = Autumn (Fall) day/medium/night temperatures
Rows 11-13 = Winter day/medium/night temperatures

As can be seen, the temperatures are about fair for a garden world towards the equator, and somewhat nastier the further you go towards the poles; this was about what I was looking for, and is likely the best I'll get. I had to tell the package to "change the randomised values", whereupon it asked me a few pointed questions, and hey presto, sorted.

It does NOT draw maps, just produces text output, but there are other packages (Campaign Cartographer, Cosmographer, and Fractal Terrains, for example), that can do that just fine.

So, job done, and many thanks one and all for the ideas and suggestions :)
 
I'm sorry to be so ignorant, but this seems interesting. What is H&E? What does it mean that it does something procedurally?

timerover51 said:
I go with the Gygax dictum of "rules are guidelines, not written in stone." ...
Click to expand...

Reading through Mr. Miller's interview in the Forum, it seems he shares that view as well.
 
I can answer part of that. H&E is Heaven and Earth. A wonderful program (that I can't find anymore) that makes maps of systems and planets.
 
Carlobrand said:
I'm sorry to be so ignorant, but this seems interesting. What is H&E? What does it mean that it does something procedurally?

(snip)

Reading through Mr. Miller's interview in the Forum, it seems he shares that view as well.
Click to expand...

See below for H&E (yep, I was beaten to the punch, lol), but I will expand on it a little; Heaven & Earth is a windows program designed by Stuart W Ferris, which is darned helpful at times; to quote from his website:

Heaven & Earth (H&E) is based on World Builder Deluxe. The software has been radically redesigned providing a better user interface and greater efficiency.

H&E generates extended World Details for Worlds, Satellites, Systems and Sectors as per the rules detailed in the Classic Traveller Scouts sourcebook, Megatraveller World Builders Handbook, New Era World Tamer's Handbook and GURPS First In sourcebook. Sector, System and World Maps can also be generated.

H&E also allows the user to generate Encounter Tables, Psionic Institute Profiles, Economic Profiles, Military Profiles, Trade & Commerce Profiles and Important NPCs as per the rules detailed in the T4 Rulebook, Psionic Institutes, Pocket Empires, Imperial Squadrons and MT Referee's Manual sourcebooks respectively.

H&E is compatible with World Builder Deluxe Sector files (*.WBS), TrTools Sector files (*.UWP), Standard Sector Files (*.SEC), Galactic Sector files (*.SEC) and GRIP Sector Files (*.TAS6S).
Click to expand...

Quite possibly. I've found it somewhat unbalanced to approach things from one point of view, though. There are times for rules, and times to lob the book out the window. You just have to get the balance right, somehow. Not an easy task ("OK, to achieve that balance, please roll 24+ on 2d6, please" "Do WHAT?!") ;)

pendragonman said:
I can answer part of that. H&E is Heaven and Earth. A wonderful program (that I can't find anymore) that makes maps of systems and planets.
Click to expand...

AHA! I get to pay back :D H&E can still be found online, at http://www.downport.com/wbd/HEAVEN_&_EARTH.htm - Enjoy!

(Caveat: It won't work under Wine in a Linux environment, as it uses DLLs that Wine won't play with, sadly)
 
yep. Run it as Administrator, I do the same on my reserve (windoze ten, hiss spit) machine here, it runs just fine.
 
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