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Help me guage what the TL of this culture might be

DaveChase

SOC-14 1K
Here is a question of technology levels for you all. First of all I am well aware that it is higher than TL 15 but high is the question in relation to OTU Tech chart.

Individuals can now do the following (though at great monetary cost to be modified)

Everything is internal, so bio/cybertech has to be much higher

No need for a spaceship to travel in space as each person is equipped to lift off an astral body (Grav tech),

Life support is handle by having a small internal oxygen ‘bladder’ and the lining of the lungs/mouth have a special graft that handles the scrubbing of the air. The bladder exchanges space of the oxygen to the CO as the system scrubs, about 7 day supply, can be dragged out to 10 by ‘sleeping’ for most of the FTL travel, but requires an on board AI system of sorts,

Built in stomach liner and food tablet storage for food & water while in space. Tablets are a form of high energy, low mass/waste that will keep the person feed. The liner is to keep the stomach from collapsing over time due to low mass food intake

Can generate a variable shaped force field to 1) keep things from hitting them, 2) create lifting surfaces while ‘flying’ in atmosphere/liquid, 3) protect them from the radiation and solar in space, 4) protects them from high heat, cold, vacuum, pressures and most standard projectiles/standard melee weapons (standard being current earth tech. Lasers, Plasma, energy have reduce effect). They can not fly into the Sun, nor survive more than 5 atmosphere pressures, the field does not fail but it crushes them slowly, at 10 atmospheres they will die just like an unprotected undersea diver. The field can protect up to 400 degree heat for hours but use energy fast at higher temps. Absolute zero degree is not a problem but if they lose power, they will die quickly (in space or from the extreme cold).


The ability to travel light speed or a different type of warp that does not put them into the JUMP warp environment (I know, not OTU Stuff, but try to accept it when offering suggestions for TL ),

Faster than Light communications,

Emotional simulation control (a different form of AI like system that helps them keep sane while traveling in space/FLT by giving them a form of controllable biofeed back,

Eyesight adjustable for seeing greater distances along with giving them a projected HUD’s,

All this with out any clothing, but most will wear some clothing for the planet they are coming from or headed to. Nudity is slightly taboo similar to today, where in some places it is acceptable to other places where showing to much ‘skin’ can get you thrown in jail to shot on sight.


Just a couple of notes, the form of FTL that is used does not work on objects bigger than 100 tons and the smaller the object the less chance of mental/space displacement that can happen when encountering particles/matter while FTL’ing.

The energy generator is like a mini ‘Mr. Fusion’ from the movie ‘Back to the Future’, it uses a special fuel cell that slowly releases to run the generator but it can also use the body’s waste to generate at lower levels. It is only used to power the force field and FTL drive. All other power needs are generated by modified bio systems,

The form of weapons used by this tech in war is either the standard found in OTU or the special lances that will work against the ‘force field’ described above. The Lance is a variable plasma laser of sorts that can be focused to work as a laser, or a blaster or projected explosive like weapon. Range is 0 to 10KM (in space it can reach line of sight which could be 50KM (or about one light second).

FTL max speed is 1 LY per day (at the current listing of this question) for personal travel. The automated pods can achieve 5 LY per day at 50 tons (safely) with a drop in speed of 1 LY per day per 10 ton over 50 tons (again safely, there are 100 ton speed pods that can do 5 LY per day, but it’s a 50/50 chance the pod will not arrive at target location)

Duration of food/water supplies is 15 days for a typical modified individual. Very special external equipment can be used to extend this but is typically only used by special military units (rarely) or long range scouts (most commonly found in use if they don’t want to use an automated pod.) A special travel pod is typically used for those travel duration’s that will take more than 7 days. But even then this is not typical for most modified humans. (Culture issues and mentalities plus that fact that most only travel to the closest planet and then stop over for a day or more. Also, there are permanent way stations on frequent travel routes every 5 LY or half way in-between destinations that are 10 LY distant or less.)

Limited AI tech, between High Autonomous and Low AI (referring to CT Book 8 for reference)

No known PSI but they have emotional simulators/generators that works almost like the OTU PSI telempathy and allows them to remain sane in space or being alone for extended periods of time.

A larger person can have a bit more ‘storage space’ for oxygen and food/water. An average person (m/f) is 6ft/5ft10, 200lbs/150lbs, and average build. That represents 80% of the population, 15% is slightly larger/smaller with 5% being in the more extreme.

Traveling Sales men with samples or small items are common, but with the FTL communications which take place at 1LY per hour (internal bio/cyber system) to 1 LY per min (external back pack 1600 cubic inches or so) with planetary systems being 1 LY per second or faster with relays, the traveling salesman/merchant is slowly going away.

Goods/supplies are usually shipped when required in 50 to 100 ton automated limited AI containers. The more valuable the items the more likely it will be moved by a personal carrier up to 1 ton of supplies. Most modified humans do not like traveling with more than that much mass as it is considered unsafe.

Most planets (after generations of FTL) can make most anything that is needed, so knowledge is more valuable than actual equipment or goods. If a group is traveling to a location, it is not uncommon to place ‘picnic goods’ into an automated container that will tag along with the group. This is also the norm for military actions.

People who have this Space Travel modification do not look any different than a typical non-modded human. Attitude and the main fact that they fly when they go places and rarely walk give them away more than any outside visual clue. Internally, they do look very different on scanners and even if you didn’t have a clue when you see a non-vacc suited person flying around in space, a typical OTU ship scanner will give you different readings, from the force field and the internal devices.

I am not listing all the background information for this question, just enough to help give you an idea of the setting so that I can get input as to how high the TL is.

At first I thought TL 20, but after reviewing the OTU. Tech chart, I was thinking an average TL of 17. Not everything is TL 15 in this setting. The Space Travel is defiantly higher than TL 16.

Dave Chase
 
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Mid to upper 20s for the field effects (as Shimmersuit with added stuff) and man-portable FTL alone.
The organic device implants may be high teens, perhaps.
I figure the Cybertech is mid-high teens, i.e. archaic compared to the other stuff.
 
Mid to upper 20s for the field effects (as Shimmersuit with added stuff) and man-portable FTL alone.
The organic device implants may be high teens, perhaps.
I figure the Cybertech is mid-high teens, i.e. archaic compared to the other stuff.

Kind of what I was thinking, that the various TL for each tech tree was greatly seperated.

Upper 20's for the force field and FTL, wow, higher than I was thinking but understandable.

Thanks.

Wonder what others will consider the TL's to be.

Dave Chase
 
Upper 20's for the force field and FTL, wow, higher than I was thinking but understandable.

The size was as much a consideration as the effect. Consider that a man-portable black globe generator might be a couple TLs above the regular one. Or perhaps it's not.

The effect, meanwhile, is unusual in its ability to shape itself. That's an unknown technology, to me, so it would be technology on top of the Shimmersuit tech.
 
Wow, lots of views (100 at the time of this posting) and only one individual willing to comment.

(sigh)

Ah, well thanks for at least looking.

Dave Chase
 
Ok, I'll post =)

I have read this a few times and the reason for the slow rate of reply is that a lot of the tech is totally alien to the Traveller TL charts.

If you pick up FF&S though you get a lot more options. You also get the option to change the rate at which certain technologies progress.

The bio-tech mods to the body I wouldn't put any higher than TL13.

The force field is the sticking point - Traveller does not have them and even FFS doesn't help much.

In CT terms you are looking at TL23+ for such a device. Id put a man sized ftl drive a bit higher - 30 perhaps.
 
Tackling the forcefield ...
It's got to be under 10L... and black globes start around 140,000L
Call it 1/10000 for simplicity.
x0.8 per TL, barring breakthroughs, TL 54...

I'd swag it as a TL 25 or higher.


The non-jump ftl pushes it over TL 30. FTL commo need not be higher tech. However, if jump doesn't exist, the FTL can replace jump at TL 9, if not requiring other, higher TL breakthroughs.
 
Yeah, you're well into Clarke's Law territory here - TL25+ for some of it. In fact, everything's probably a post-Singularity AI simulation anyway.
 
I have read this a few times and the reason for the slow rate of reply is that a lot of the tech is totally alien to the Traveller TL charts.

I agree. I'm completely adrift on this. Some of it's straight sci-fi, a bit of extrapolation from stuff known in Traveller - and some of it's very original and therefore very difficult to place.

I think if you told me you were going to transfer a person's brain into a robot body able to accomplish all that, I'd have an easier time of it. Heck, if you told me you were inventing a YTU telepathic link that allowed you to mentally "inhabit" an FTL-capable man-sized robot - well, shell might be a better word - from your rocking chair at home, I'd take a stab at it. However, fitting and powering all of that while maintaining your own fleshy form and being indistinguishable from other people - that one has me boggled. I'm not even sure you could do that with an antimatter power source. It makes Grandfather look primitive. These folk look like post-Singularity folk; I can't even begin to imagine what their culture must be like.

I think I can only give two sensible comments. First, your ideas about O2 provision don't make a lot of sense. Your working literal miracles in other areas; it doesn't seem like it would be a great lot of difficulty to draw on whatever power supply you're using to power some sort of CO2 "cracker" in the lung space that would take your venous blood, chemically break the O2 free and then return it to your blood to be used again. The idea of a limited O2 supply is not consistent with the rest of your tech.

On a similar note, your limited food supply doesn't make much sense. Again, you're working miracles elsewhere. If you can do all that, you can install something in the stomach cavity that can take the waste carbon sent down from the lungs and draw on your power source to combine it with water to make the sugars you need for energy. Similar units replacing the kidneys and liver and elsewhere could take other waste products and recycle them into the vitamins and proteins and other chemicals needed by the body. Considering the amount of power and the scale of miniaturization you must be using to accomplish everything else - and the molecular-level control implicit in all that - these seem like rather minor miracles.

Or, you could just ditch the body altogether and build an android shell that housed and supported the brain. Pretty much the same thing but supporting much less flesh and therefore much more room for other interesting gadgets like that personal FTL space-warp inducer. Why bring all that body mass when you really only need the brain?
 
I agree. I'm completely adrift on this. Some of it's straight sci-fi, a bit of extrapolation from stuff known in Traveller - and some of it's very original and therefore very difficult to place.

...

Or, you could just ditch the body altogether and build an android shell that housed and supported the brain. Pretty much the same thing but supporting much less flesh and therefore much more room for other interesting gadgets like that personal FTL space-warp inducer. Why bring all that body mass when you really only need the brain?

In a week or so, I will tell you why I have outlined the tech/culture that I did. :)

Thank you for yours and others input. :)

It does help me a lot in my thinking process.

Dave Chase
 
The book

The Creatures of Man by Howard L. Myers

More particularly the cycle of stories, called the "Econo-War series"

All written in late 1960's.



I have been re-reading lots of old SciFi (60's and before) and while reading the various authors and stories have been in the back of my mind seeing how and where such could fit into the Traveller universe or Traveller rules.

I decided to post this one because it was well beyond the typical set of TL and rules to make it fit.

When I listed some of the above tech, I did add to some of the limits and how it works, but only to help define the question.

If you are interested looking over this book by Myer, you can find it at Baen books.

Dave Chase
 
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