HIGH GUARD ... I need it really?

[rsitalyct]

Hello!

I have learned the basic rules (LLB 1-3) plus I have read MERCENARY, SCOUTS and MERCHANT PRINCE but I have jumped over HIGH GUARD; I have skipped it (after giving a brief look) manly for 3 reasons:

1) it seems to me unnecessary complicated and not in the same mood (I mean simple) as the basic BOOK 2 and the other ones as well
2) Now I know very well BOOK 2 and I design the ships myself
3) in a RPG game I don't see useful have a deep session of space combat ... basic rules can solve them fast

While I was consider about posting this thread, surfing at some old HG related posts, I found one of them posted last year by SUPP4 that said:

"I've been considering HG lately, having been a Traveller rpg player for 25 years (this month!) but never a HG player."

Of course the original post has more than that but his statement made my thinking if HG is really useful and if it is worth the time spent on learning it ... what do you think?

I have doubts because:

1) many supplements and adventures refers to HG rules and statistics
2) I love space combat because I'm a war oriented boardgamer (I own all the Traveller boardgames (also the ones based on TNE) as well as many others space combat games ... mostly BABYLON 5 related and few others in different universes).

So .. have I to learn it in your opinion?

Thanks in advance as always!

Roberto

 

[GypsyComet]

Ongoing argument (yes, after 30 years) concerns whether High Guard replaces Book 2.

If you favor a "small ship" setting, High Guard has little to offer you. Its combat system is meant for fleets, and is too granular for small ships or RPG combat.

If you favor a large ship setting, as the OTU has become, High Guard gives you the design tools for the big stuff, fleet combat, and advanced character generation related to the fleet model of space navy.

 

[rancke]

"I've been considering HG lately, having been a Traveller rpg player for 25 years (this month!) but never a HG player."

Of course the original post has more than that but his statement made my thinking if HG is really useful and if it is worth the time spent on learning it ... what do you think?

I have doubts because:

1) many supplements and adventures refers to HG rules and statistics
2) I love space combat because I'm a war oriented boardgamer (I own all the Traveller boardgames (also the ones based on TNE) as well as many others space combat games ... mostly BABYLON 5 related and few others in different universes).

If Book 2 covers your needs, there's no reason to switch. The big problem with Book 2 ship design is that it is incompatible with HG (the rule in HG grandfathering Book 2 designs to the contrary notwithstanding). Some things you can do with Book 2 is impossible with HG and vice versa. Some things you can do with both often results in different statistics for the two systems. And a lot of material produced since HG (though not, alas, all of it) either follows HG or another system that's closer to HG than to Book 2 (TNE doesn't fit either one). So if you want to stick to Book 2, you either cannot use it or will have to ignore the differences. Though, as I said, some of the subsequent material ignored HG and stuck to Book 2.

Note that ALL the various ship design systems have mutual discrepancies. But the discrepancies between HG and the rest are smaller than the dicrepancies between Book 2 and the rest.

If you do decide to switch, I'd reccomend going for QSDS (Quick Ship Design System) if you can find it anywhere. Others will disagree with me, but I think that one has the fewest problems.


Hans

 

[Supplement Four]

Roberto,

Did you buy the Classic Traveller CD-ROM for $35 from Far Future?

If you did, you already have HG as that CD-ROM comes with everything GDW published for Traveller.

If I were you, I'd buy the CD-ROM, because it's so inexpensive, and then I'd cherry pick the things I wanted in print. That way, if you never use HG but want to refer to it from time to time (say, for a skill definition, or maybe use the advanced generation for Naval characters), you'll have it on the CD-ROM. The other books that you use all the time, you have in print as you've purchased them.

I also highly recommend getting the JTAS CD-ROM. There is so much good stuff in the JTAS run...it's incredible.

 

[dean]

Hello!

I have learned the basic rules (LLB 1-3) plus I have read MERCENARY, SCOUTS and MERCHANT PRINCE but I have jumped over HIGH GUARD; I have skipped it (after giving a brief look) manly for 3 reasons:

1) it seems to me unnecessary complicated and not in the same mood (I mean simple) as the basic BOOK 2 and the other ones as well
2) Now I know very well BOOK 2 and I design the ships myself
3) in a RPG game I don't see useful have a deep session of space combat ... basic rules can solve them fast

While I was consider about posting this thread, surfing at some old HG related posts, I found one of them posted last year by SUPP4 that said:

"I've been considering HG lately, having been a Traveller rpg player for 25 years (this month!) but never a HG player."

Of course the original post has more than that but his statement made my thinking if HG is really useful and if it is worth the time spent on learning it ... what do you think?

I have doubts because:

1) many supplements and adventures refers to HG rules and statistics
2) I love space combat because I'm a war oriented boardgamer (I own all the Traveller boardgames (also the ones based on TNE) as well as many others space combat games ... mostly BABYLON 5 related and few others in different universes).

So .. have I to learn it in your opinion?

Thanks in advance as always!

Roberto

Have to? No.
But IMO if you are using characters generated from "advanced" character generation from books 4, 6, & 7, then you're shortchanging players who would want to have ship-oriented skills by not using the HG chargen system. Ship design is irrelevant, if you are running a small ship campaign, book 2 is more useful anyway - but it does introduce some concepts you might use during play.

 

[rsitalyct]

Roberto,

Did you buy the Classic Traveller CD-ROM for $35 from Far Future?

If you did, you already have HG as that CD-ROM comes with everything GDW published for Traveller.

If I were you, I'd buy the CD-ROM, because it's so inexpensive, and then I'd cherry pick the things I wanted in print. That way, if you never use HG but want to refer to it from time to time (say, for a skill definition, or maybe use the advanced generation for Naval characters), you'll have it on the CD-ROM. The other books that you use all the time, you have in print as you've purchased them.

I also highly recommend getting the JTAS CD-ROM. There is so much good stuff in the JTAS run...it's incredible.

I have bought both CD-ROM ... absolutely they worth every cents!

Roberto

 

[Supplement Four]

I have bought both CD-ROM ... absolutely they worth every cents!

Then...I'm confused...because HG is on the CD-ROM. You already own it. Just look it over and decide for yourself if you'd like to have it in hard copy (and...can't you print sections you want off the CD-ROM?).

 

[rsitalyct]

Then...I'm confused...because HG is on the CD-ROM. You already own it. Just look it over and decide for yourself if you'd like to have it in hard copy (and...can't you print sections you want off the CD-ROM?).

You are right ... but my question was:

is HG absolutely needed in your opinion?

Of course I can figure it by myself at last ... but giving a preliminary view at it, I found it more complicated than necessary ... so I wanted to know if in your opinion it worth the effort.

Roberto

 

[robject]

You are right ... but my question was:

is HG absolutely needed in your opinion?

Of course I can figure it by myself at last ... but giving a preliminary view at it, I found it more complicated than necessary ... so I wanted to know if in your opinion it worth the effort.

Roberto

No, it's not absolutely needed, unless you want to have battles between very large starships.

 

[Jeffr0]

While High Guard is a masterpiece in its own way, it is nevertheless clearly in the tradition of "Accounts and Asteroids" as opposed to the classic "gritty golden age noire sci-fi action vicarious law-breaking rpg violence" school of Traveller gaming.

It is however one of the rare rpg tools for resovlving combat between massive fleets of giant battle cruisers. Nevertheless, it has a reputation of being the sort of game best left to dueling AI's instead of humans....

 

[pendragonman]

...Nevertheless, it has a reputation of being the sort of game best left to dueling AI's instead of humans....

Hal. Open the pod bay doors.

 

[samuelvss]

As to HG and LBB2 being incompatible, the designs are.

If you are a gearhead, you need it. Apparently, you are not.

I found, even when running a "small ship" campaign that I was atttracted to the small craft design in HG.

I always saw the "small craft" v "big craft" debate to be a bit off the mark. It is all a matter of perspective. It is like "small boats v big ships." I can see a navigable waterway from my Charleston, WV window with commercial traffic. If I want to describe what's happening in what is a riparian backwater, the a "small ship design" would be ample. Indeed, it would still be releavant in Charleston, SC, with huge container and naval ships; it just wouldn't describe everything happening.

If you are a gearhead, different rules that are self-contradictory. If you are a GM trying to describe and design things for your worlds, they are both resources. One key thing, If I am using LBB2, I am very limted in the numbers and types of small craft; HG can guide you making that 6 ton fighter or 80 ton lighter.

My advice, try the small craft design for something that will fit nicely on a character ship. See if you like it. Like eating an elephant: one bite at a time.