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How to do a ship combat module?

robject

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So I have to write ship combat for my Traveller Trader game.

I'm thinking of basing it on either Book 2, or High Guard with Book 2 damage tracks. Maybe that's enough detail to do it.

It can't be highly detailed, and it can't be difficult to use. It has to be risky enough that you have to decide if you really can afford it.
 
LBB2 doesn't have screens or armor.
The only defensive option in LBB2 is ... sandcasters.

I still maintain that LBB5.80 is the superior system, even at the low end of the scale ... all the way down to individual small craft.
There is room to "clean up" parts of LBB5.80 to make it easier to use, but I'm convinced it is the better paradigm to start with.
Your mileage may vary, of course.
 
Well there's a couple of problems.

First, single ship combat is uninteresting. One on one it's mostly just a game of dice to see who survives, with the number of weapons etc. acting as thumbs on the scale.

The singular problem is that once in combat, you can't get out until someone is dead. If you could get out, you wouldn't have engaged in the first place.

Now, if you're the attacker, looking for combat, that's fine -- as you, in theory, go in with the advantage and means to win. If you're the defender, you're kind of stuck with no options than to run, burn, and hope they keep missing you.

I appreciate that this is some kind of random encounter. And that, perhaps, you may want dangerous areas that the pilots know are dangerous, so they're going in to these areas knowing attacks will happen and are ideally prepared to prosecute them properly.

So, what next.

Next, Book 2 is lethal on small ships. Those little A drives are one hit wonders. So, you can either balance by making ships harder to hit, or you can bulk them up letting them take more damage. The point being in the end, it may take 5 shots to hurt the ship. 5 shots that hit and ablate the armor enough to do damage, or 5 shots with the odds that 1 will hit and end it right there.

Mechanically it's the same, to a point. On the average, statistically it take 5 turns (shots, whatever) to end the fight. But with the latter method, someone can get lucky and end it on the first shot.

But this goes back to the first point. If there's nothing you can do in those 5 turns or shots to change the outcome, what difference does it make? Or is it simply a game of who gets lucky first?

Because if the ship has the power and speed to evade and outrun the attacker (i.e. we armor up the ship to provide us time to escape concept), they wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. It's not like they jumped out from behind a rock.

Granted, there's the jump drive. On those edge cases where the combat is right near the 100D limit to where, "if we can hold them off for a few more minutes, we're home free".

But from a play style, I mean, "we just have to take it, turn on evasive maneuvers, and pump out sand, and hope for jump" doesn't seem very...fun. "Just keep hitting that NEXT button until we get out of this!" Compared to dancing ships and crosshairs and Big Guns going FOOM FOOM FOOM, watching the other ship burn, with sparks flying off of it until it finally explodes in a grand display.

Clearly, combat is Hard. Its especially hard in a trading game because it's (ideally) extremely expensive, if not outright lethal and game ending.

It's hard to make it interesting.

Simply, I would just implement Book 2, literally, as a starting point, and then run some encounters and see how they feel. From there, I'd start tweaking things until it feels better as you get to posit different scenarios of ship encounters. Just put two ships together and start rolling dice, skip the whole maneuver thing for the time being and see what it's like.

For example, in Mayday, if you play it to scale (it has huge hexes), any combat within 100D is only 3-4 hexes on the game board. May has well just but the ships 2 hexes away and start blasting. See what happens after 2, 3, 4 rounds.

Now, in contrast to Book 2. Terrestrial 100D is 12,000km diameter. x 1000 for meters. x 100 D = 1,200,000,000 meters. On Book 2 scale of 1:100,000,000, that ends up with a play space of 12 METERS. 1G is 100mm, or 1/10th of a meter. Which means that the 100D limit is, essentially, 120 "hexes" away. That's a LONG time to make that run from the planet to the 100D marker. With 1000 second turns, it's 11 turns at 1G to get across that gap. Anything under 25 "hexes" is +0 Range DM, so that's "short range". 50 hexes is medium range (-2 DM), and beyond that is -5 DM.

So, start there, see how the damage unfolds, and just tweak until it works. You know ("know") as a designer what you're trying to achieve, you want danger, but not suicide. You want the combat to be friction on the trade, to basically up the "cost" of trade to where the Captain has to decide if it's "worth it", but at the same time, you don't want the first random encounter to end up with a dead ship, dead crew, and bankruptcy. You can start at different ranges. What happens when the attacker is medium range. How well does a trader do taking 10 turns of sustained, -2 DM laser fire? A +2 Gunner eliminates that range DM. Sand is a -3 DM. Then there's the whole computer thing.

Keep it simple. Pirate near, but not close, chasing you to the jump limit. 10 turns, -2 DM, roll 10+ to hit, 2 triple laser turrets (6 total lasers), so 60 shots. 16% chance hit, so that's 9. 9 hits. Over the length of the encounter, you have about a 50% chance of a Jump drive hit, which means you're a dead duck.

So, that's just a simple example of what it can be like. Obviously defensive DMs (Evade, etc.) can help tremendously. But in the end it's, essentially, 10 rounds of dice rolling that you just hope to get out of alive.

There's a computer game, free, "Endless Sky". It's kind of fun. You grab cargos, run warplines from system to system. It has combat. It's supposed be kind of twitchy ("Aim the ship" "shoot the lasers", "realtime", etc.). Few times it happened to me, it handed me my hat. But it wasn't lethal, it was inconvenient, cost a little money, and a "friendly trader" would show up and heal the ship and send me on my way.

It was enough to keep me away from dangerous areas, but I never played the game long enough to build a ship big/armed enough to go in there and bring the fight to them. Just stayed away and racked up more monies.
 
For simple/fast, wasn't there a 3-D combat game adapted to Traveller with hitboxes and arcs/maneuver? That would seem to fit the bill.

For most trader ACS, the answer is almost always 'not worth it'. The question then becomes more 'what is the fiscal/reputational cost of dumping cargo/paying off pirates'.

If you want more of a pirate friction without destruction universe, you would need to gear encounters more towards 'ersatz pirates', part timers upgunning THEIR traders and trying to hit easy marks and reckoning on most being unarmed or not willing to try conclusions. They would have their own 'not worth it' calculus and be scared off or stop at the first hit.

Then the occasional REAL pirate can hurt, but the players have been running profitable speculation and upgunned themselves.

Don't forget that a major element of upgunning in LBB2 is the software. A ship with 20MCr plus of software can lay on a serious hurting to a similarly armed but software poor opponent.
 
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So, thinking about it some more.

Here's the question you have to answer.

Since in trading, assuming you're on the "right" side of the law, the bulk of combat is Piracy.

So, the first question is "what happens of the pirates win". They can just take the cargo and be on their way.

You also need to answer the question: "What happens if my drives fail."

If your jump drives fail, no jump, but you have an M-Drive to take you back to port for repair and replacement. Maybe you can hire an Engineer that have a chance to jury rig the drive to get you 1 Jump out of it.

What if you have no M-Drive? Now you're really stuck (for assorted values of "stuck" as you're likely vectoring off at speed in to deep space). How do you recover from that? Jury rig it? The Engineer can repair the drive to M1 and now you can use it to get home and repair/replace it.

Book 2 has repair rules you can just apply, perhaps making stocking "Spare Parts" a first class concept in the game. Book 2 lets you repair during combat, I'd just do them all afterwards.

What about running out of Fuel? No jury rigging that.

See, the crux is how lethal a game do you want it to be. It's one thing to get a string of bad luck, damaging your ship, draining your cash reserves to pay for it (much less the downtime with a ticking mortgage). It's another thing to be attacked by Pirates on your first trip, boarded, and have them space you. "Whee".

For example, using the 9 shots thing from above, and critical hits, there's a 4% chance of the ship outright blowing up using RAW Book 2.

I think you can go far by simply having the Pirates seize the cargo, Jury rig everything else (i.e. Yea, we lost all of our fuel but after patching things up, we had enough to get back to port). Use the stock repair rules for costs.

Ignore the "Ship Explodes" critical (if you like), and if you get a crew hit, kill one of the crew (just not the Captain).

So, here's you typical event.

Random pirate encounter. Give the pirate 10 turns to hurt the ship, 10-20% chance of the pirate being at "close range" (no -2 DM). If it takes out the jump drive, the fuel, computer, or the power plant, the pirates win and seize the cargo. If there's no cargo, they kill some of your crew in anger and leave you be. If you have weapons, feel free to shoot back -- maybe you'll take out a turret and thus giving them less of a chance of hurting you. But if they catch you after shooting back, they'll kill a crewmember.

After that, it's all friction that you have lick your wounds. All of the costs are basically money, or time, or both. Money for repairs, time having to return to port, time to have to find a new crewmember, etc.

At a high level, all of your combats are essentially blockade runs -- running for the 100D or running for orbit where it's "safe". Don't forget DMs like Sand or evade, etc. Sand "costs money". Add DMs for crew (gunners, pilots). Engineers for repairs. Faster M Drives mean fewer turns for the Pirates. 10 turns for M1, 9 turns for M2-3, 8 turns for M4-5, 7 turns for M-6.

The key point is that there are no direct choices with combat, just consequences. The fight is basically automatic, rolling a bunch of dice and applying the outcomes. The choices are done before hand (mounting a sand caster, stocking sand, getting a faster drive, getting a better computer, hiring a gunner, not flying in places with lots of pirates).

Simply, the only way your Captain dies is bankruptcy. The tick tick tick of the mortgage is the true constant you're fighting. Combat acts as friction against that since it cost money and affects income by keeping your ship stuck in port for repairs.

If you want to go "against the law" (smuggling and such), then if you get caught you can lose your cargo, get fined, thrown in to jail for 6 months (tick tick tick!).

Speaking of sand, where ARE the sandcaster rules in Book 2? All I see is a "25mm of sand" DM, and another saying it's ablative, but I can't find any actual rules talking about that, or the deploying of sand (sand sticks with the ship unless you turn or accelerate).
 
The key point is that there are no direct choices with combat, just consequences. The fight is basically automatic, rolling a bunch of dice and applying the outcomes.
Yeah, probably why I'm having a hard time coming to grips with it. I think I need a twitch factor here.

Speaking of sand, where ARE the sandcaster rules in Book 2? All I see is a "25mm of sand" DM, and another saying it's ablative, but I can't find any actual rules talking about that, or the deploying of sand (sand sticks with the ship unless you turn or accelerate).
Are rules needed? Isn't it (is it?) ordnance launch?
 
Yeah, probably why I'm having a hard time coming to grips with it. I think I need a twitch factor here.
Sure, suit yourself. Adding an arcade game in to the middle of trading campaign -- I dunno, I would think it would really complicate things.
Are rules needed? Isn't it (is it?) ordnance launch?
I just don't think it's clarified. For example, the "25mm of sand" DM. Where does that come from? I don't see any reference to it. There's no mention of its ablative properties except as in passing.

Sandcasters are defensive weapons; they dispense small particles which counteract the strength of lasers and protect the ship. The specific particles used are similar to ablat personal armor; replacement canisters of this special sand weigh about 50 kg and cost Cr400.
That suggests each hit reduces the effectiveness. How many mm of sand does one shot make? How many laser shots does sand obstruct? It talks about shooting sand at a target. To what effect?
 
Sure, suit yourself. Adding an arcade game in to the middle of trading campaign -- I dunno, I would think it would really complicate things.

I just don't think it's clarified. For example, the "25mm of sand" DM. Where does that come from? I don't see any reference to it. There's no mention of its ablative properties except as in passing.


That suggests each hit reduces the effectiveness. How many mm of sand does one shot make? How many laser shots does sand obstruct? It talks about shooting sand at a target. To what effect?
I understood it to mean every sandcaster shot laid the 25mm bit and multiple sand clouds strung out would mean cumulative -3s.
The Missile Supplement had sand potentially destroying incoming missiles.

I also assumed the cloud(s) got a speed and bearing from their launch and would eventually dissapate past effectiveness. Nowadays I would recommend a reduction to -2 DM on the second turn and -1 DM on the third, gone by the fourth.

The trick then would be to keep the protected ship 'behind' the sand cloud(s) while an attacker would seek to 'get around' the cloud. Eventually if the sandcasting ship kept accelerating, it would get too far out for the current cloud(s) to intervene, and have to lay new ones to maintain protection.

Brilliant Lances envisioned the ship to be IN the sand cloud. I would think there would be a minimum of maneuver/agility possible before losing cover.

I would also impose sand DMs for outgoing fire, and point defense fire against missiles if the ship was next to/in a cloud.
 
If you ignore Range numbers, it makes things easier. Just Close, MidRange, or Far, with Close having a Plus, Mid has nothing, and Far having a Minus. Otherwise, you can get bogged down in calculations. Anything past Far is Out of Range. Might not be realistic enough for you tho.
 
That is what Mayday has to say on sand.
Yea, I knew what Mayday said about it, they just didn't get a chance to really detail it in book 2. It's a half a page of rules, so easy to see how it was left out.

From a gameplay POV, my biggest concerns with combat in a trading game is obviously how it is forced on the trader. These folks aren't out looking for a fight, the fight comes to them. And combat is very expensive. Everything costs millions of credits.

Let's take the example above. 9 hits on a Free Trader. This came out to: Hull, Critical, Hull, Fuel, Fuel, Turret, Computer, Hull, Hull. The Critical was the Power Plant.

We'll say there were no turrets, just hard points. So the Hull and Turret hits are essentially free. The computer rolled 80% (10 - 2 DM ) for repair cost, so that's 1.6MCr to repair. The power plant was destroyed, that's 8MCr. This ship isn't jumping, so in that sense it lost the battle. It lost its Power Plant and 20 tons of fuel (out of 30).

Anyway, this one battle, not counting whatever else the intruder did to the ship after they eventually caught it, wracked up 9.6MCr in damages.

Over 25% of the price of the ship in the first place. This is an enterprise that's trying to meet a 154KCr monthly mortgage, plus crew salaries, fuel, and working capital. One that's hoping to gross 300-350K per month.

9.6MCr is bankruptcy.
 
Sure, suit yourself. Adding an arcade game in to the middle of trading campaign -- I dunno, I would think it would really complicate things.

You generally hit on all of the moving parts. The most important is:

| It's hard to make it interesting.

GIVEN that this is Traveller, and not (for example) Wing Commander.

I can draw out two general requirements.


Frustration Should not Define the Game

The other side of "interesting" is "not frustrating." I'm going to spend two hours upgrading to a nicer ship with nicer equipment. I don't gamble the entire thing on one chance encounter.

I will risk some of it, though, and there is drama if you've steadily lost some ground due to the past three times you've wandered into systems clearly marked DANGEROUS.

This means pirates are nuanced here. That's good -- it means I can use them in more than one way.

This means you choose your venue. That's also good -- it means the player decides his level of risk.



Players Should be able to Do Something

Equipping, choices, and actions.

Consider the computer rules in Book 2. That might work nicely with a kinetic ("twitch") component. Use keystrokes to balance uploading and loading computer programs, aiming, and firing. And all of those improve with skills and equipment, all of which cost capital. Better crew and equipment means you don't have to be as good with the twitch. Maybe it's enough.

Consider when the player has to make time-sensitive choices between three types of actions:

(1) Aiming. How twitchy is this?
(2) Firing turrets
(3) Unloading and Loading
(4) Capacity per Book 2

KeyProgram / ActionCapacity
DDouble Fire4
EECM3
GGenerate1
HAnti-Hijack1
IGunner Interact1
JAstrogate + Jump-nn+1
LFire lasers0
MLaunch missile(s)0
PPredict-nn
RReturn Fire1
SLaunch sand0
TReady Turrets1
VManeuver/Evade-nn
WAuto/Evade1
XAnti-Missile fire2
 
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Just hard for me to get in to the fantasy of running combat by uploading programs.

Just trying to visualize this: "Ok Frank....hold...hold...HOLD...Ok! Drop the Auto Evade software, load Launch, and FIRE THE MISSILE!" "Yes sir!" Frank stares at the screen as the progress bar of the Launch program loading in to the computer creeps across the screen.. "load baby, load!".

In the game, computer programming was a turn by turn event. The Free Trader has a Model 1. At a minimum, they would need: Maneuver, Jump, Generate, and Navigate. During our run to 100D, you need to start with Maneuver (so you can accelerate), and Generate (to create the Jump plan, ignoring the cassettes in this case). After the first turn, they have 1 slot free for something else, but need to keep Maneuver so they can continue to accelerate. The smart choice for combat scenario is to fill that slot with Auto/Evade, that -2 DM is very powerful.

So, given we have 10 turns to get to 100D. Turn 1 is Maneuver and Generate, turns 2-9 are Maneuver and Auto/Evade, Turn 10 is Jump and Navigate and that gets you out of the system. You have 2 turns (turn 1 and turn 10) where you lose the -2 DM.

If you're equipped, you could replace the Auto/Evade with Launch and start pumping sand (you have to do that each turn since you're accelerating). That would give you the -3 DM, which is nice.

And, honestly, that's about it. The strategy is "run for your lives". Firing back is not practical, I don't think. I think the loss of the -2 or -3 DM is higher than the ability to shoot back at the intruder (You would need to replace Evade/Launch with Target). If nothing else, it's risky. Going head to head leads to bankruptcy. Something the military can afford, but you can't.

And a Model 2, costs 7MCr which is a lot of money, and a 1/bis with only 4 slots isn't enough.

But in the end, the issue is when would this strategy change? Generate, Evade, Jump. Generate, Evade, Jump every time. It's one of those dichotomies that LOOKS like player agency and choice, but in the end, there really isn't any. Sure, it lets the players make a bunch of BAD decisions, but the "good" decisions are pretty small. So, they just end up doing the same thing all the time.

Now, as the computers and ships get bigger, then, obviously more variety kicks in. But in the end, I don't see them varying that much tactically. You just keep stacking the advantages and use them all the time.

Consider the Sand vs Evade decision. A single launcher can fire 3 sand charges before reloading. During the reloading turn, you swap out Launch with Auto/Evade, the you swap it back. Simply, if the capability is there, there's no decision to make. You use it. Consider "Let's run Auto/Evade AND launch sand!" Why would you ever not do that if you could?

Are there situations where all the chips are down and circumstance is rolling against the player and the micro decisions will actually impact play? Maybe. "We ran out of money so didn't reload the sand so we can't fire it". Valid situation. Casting sand costs money, but not a lot. Getting hit by lasers cost a lot more.

If you want a rich, detailed combat game, absolutely go for it. What I would try to avoid is the meaningless make work. If combat is rare, then it can be involved. If it's all the time, then it gets tiring quickly. "Same thing, same thing, same thing...same thing, same thing, ooops...I guess it wasn't the same thing and should have paid more attention swapping X for Y that one time."
 
Just hard for me to get in to the fantasy of running combat by uploading programs.
LOL! "C'mon, feed that tape!" "Ach, I'm feeding it as fast as I can, Cap'n!"

But in the end, the issue is when would this strategy change? Generate, Evade, Jump. Generate, Evade, Jump every time. It's one of those dichotomies that LOOKS like player agency and choice, but in the end, there really isn't any. Sure, it lets the players make a bunch of BAD decisions, but the "good" decisions are pretty small. So, they just end up doing the same thing all the time.
This is the strategy when you didn't go looking for trouble.

I started to see some of that in the Astrogation and Jump programs. Both must always be loaded to jump. Why are they separate? The only reason I can think of is that compartmentalization allows targeted upgrades, I guess. Which is good design. But in the game, they need to be a unit.

If you want a rich, detailed combat game, absolutely go for it. What I would try to avoid is the meaningless make work. If combat is rare, then it can be involved. If it's all the time, then it gets tiring quickly. "Same thing, same thing, same thing...same thing, same thing, ooops...I guess it wasn't the same thing and should have paid more attention swapping X for Y that one time."
Yes, this.
 
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Before I comment on Strategy, I'll try to modify your expectations by noting that traders aren't the only ships you can own. I've got small ships in the mix with a variety of missions, including martial (e.g. Mercenary Cruiser).

That should help when we talk about Strategy.

...when would this strategy change? Generate, Evade, Jump.
Yes, this is the Escape strategy.

I had already fixed this on the front end, so to speak, by marking worlds (clearly) (warningly) for risk.

If you want zero risk, go to a Green zone.
If you want trouble, go to a Red zone.

If you want trouble, you need more than one strategy.
If you don't want trouble, you may never need any strategy.
 
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Obviously the game is different if you're looking for trouble, even with a ship equipped for it.

But we're back to the core tenet of combat: Combat is VERY expensive. If MCr are just sitting on the docks at any random starport ready for the taking, then, lock and load, and away we go. Is the expectation to rise from freshly mustered out captain with a mortgage to one with 100-200MCr in the bank to purchase (finance), run, and crew a Merc cruiser? In that case, routinely blowing 20MCr on repairs, "tis but a scratch!".

"Let's go clear out some pirates!"

Hope that pays well.
 
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