How to grapple.

[loudriver23]

I think I'm still a bit unclear on how grappling works.
If combatant A (Attacker) has an unarmed melee skill of 1, and he tries to grapple combatant B (Defender) who's unarmed melee skill is untrained do both combatants roll their 2d6 apply their DMs and the higher score wins?
Also, if the defender wins the grapple battle, is he'she able to disarm, or throw the attacker, or are those choices only available to the attacker?
Thanks,
Louis

 

[aramis]

I think I'm still a bit unclear on how grappling works.
If combatant A (Attacker) has an unarmed melee skill of 1, and he tries to grapple combatant B (Defender) who's unarmed melee skill is untrained do both combatants roll their 2d6 apply their DMs and the higher score wins?
Also, if the defender wins the grapple battle, is he'she able to disarm, or throw the attacker, or are those choices only available to the attacker?
Thanks,
Louis

That's how I understand it, provided the higher beats 8. If there are negatives, and neither beats 8, I'd call it a mutual failure to get a meaningful grip.

 

[loudriver23]

So, at that point would the grapple continue? Or would I just consider the attack to be a failure and they are still in personal range, but NOT locked up.

 

[aramis]

So, at that point would the grapple continue? Or would I just consider the attack to be a failure and they are still in personal range, but NOT locked up.

How I'd interpret the situation:

Both rolled 8+: locked, high roller in control

One rolled 8+: 8+ has control, low roller grappled.

Neither rolled 8+: if previously locked up, still locked, but not for effect. If not previously locked, still not locked but in personal range.

 

[loudriver23]

Thanks Aramis, I appreciate the help.

 

[aramis]

Thanks Aramis, I appreciate the help.

No problem.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Both rolled 8+: locked, high roller in control
One rolled 8+: 8+ has control, low roller grappled.

If these are the only options then how does the grapple end? Grapple to the death! :devil

the winner can choose to end or continue the grapple as he sees fit.

An alternate view is that someone does not need to roll 8+. An opposed check compares effect and does not state the effect has to be positive.

 

[aramis]

If these are the only options then how does the grapple end? Grapple to the death! :devil

The one with control opts to break it. You might try looking at the list of options for what the winner gets to do. It's on p.64 of the Core Rulebook.

but also, see page 48...

To repeat; to make a skill check, a character rolls 2d6 + his Skill
Level + his Characteristic DM + any other DMs, and tries to get 8 or
more. Anything more than this is detail that can be used or not as
the group sees fit.
[bolding original]​

The more specific doesn't actually contradict this. So it's left to interpretation... but an effect of failure, if using margin of failure, would still apply, since all tasks are for 8+.

 

[loudriver23]

I think I would be inclined to add a few things to the victor. If you win by a margin of 6+ then along with taking their weapon, you could choose to "choke out" your opponent, or perhaps break and arm or leg or something.

 

[aramis]

I think I would be inclined to add a few things to the victor. If you win by a margin of 6+ then along with taking their weapon, you could choose to "choke out" your opponent, or perhaps break and arm or leg or something.

I'd allow an option for, say, one pick off the list per 3 points made by...

 

[Shonner]

I think I'm still a bit unclear on how grappling works.
If combatant A (Attacker) has an unarmed melee skill of 1, and he tries to grapple combatant B (Defender) who's unarmed melee skill is untrained do both combatants roll their 2d6 apply their DMs and the higher score wins?
Also, if the defender wins the grapple battle, is he'she able to disarm, or throw the attacker, or are those choices only available to the attacker?
Thanks,
Louis

I'd say if the defender wins, he prevents any grapple. On his turn, he can try to disarm or grapple.

 

[aramis]

I'd say if the defender wins, he prevents any grapple. One his turn, he can try to disarm.

That's only one of a wide range of options...

 

[CosmicGamer]

Roll with difference in effect of 5 but not higher than 8 (7 and 2) and you can't break the grapple but roll with difference in effect of 1 (9 and 8) and you can?

to make a skill check, a character rolls 2d6 + his Skill Level + his Characteristic DM + any other DMs, and tries to get 8 or more.

True. So if both people roll over 8 then they both succeed? Perhaps the Rule under opposed checks where it says the character with the highest effect wins supersedes not just 2 people succeeding in an opposed roll but also 2 people failing.

 

[aramis]

Roll with difference in effect of 5 but not higher than 8 (7 and 2) and you can't break the grapple but roll with difference in effect of 1 (9 and 8) and you can? True. So if both people roll over 8 then they both succeed? Perhaps the Rule under opposed checks where it says the character with the highest effect wins supersedes not just 2 people succeeding in an opposed roll but also 2 people failing.

It doesn't say it does. And the wording on checks is 8+ is required to not fail. I've not seen official errata on it. So barring erratum, ≤7 is a fail, and a fail should not get a positive benefit.

 

[CosmicGamer]

And the wording on checks is 8+ is required to not fail.

Does the wording on checks say 8+ is required to NOT FAIL? Or does it say to succeed?

Where does it explain that less than 8 is a loss?

Does success = winning? Does winning = success? Is this explained anywhere?

Example: It's a race and the two competitors are trying to beat the record. Very difficult, or formidable task.

Both roll over 8 and beat the record. Who won the race?

Both roll under 8 and don't beat the record. Who won the race?

The way I understand your interpretation, the race isn't won until someone rolls over 7 and beats the record.

 

[aramis]

Does the wording on checks say 8+ is required to NOT FAIL? Or does it say to succeed?

Where does it explain that less than 8 is a loss?

Does success = winning? Does winning = success? Is this explained anywhere?

Example: It's a race and the two competitors are trying to beat the record. Very difficult, or formidable task.

Both roll over 8 and beat the record. Who won the race?

Both roll under 8 and don't beat the record. Who won the race?

The way I understand your interpretation, the race isn't won until someone rolls over 7 and beats the record.

You've defined the task as beating the record. If they don't make the 8+, they both failed.

Your own choice of example fails to make your point.
But you'd better also go read MGT Core page 50, because if you're argument is that 7- isn't explicitly a failure, then you've obviously NOT read the rules on page 50.

 

[Shonner]

Both roll over 8 and beat the record. Who won the race?

I'd say it's a tie. Compare DEXs to see who was .001 seconds ahead.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Your own choice of example fails to make your point.

I tried to give an example because you were overlooking and not responding to some of what I previously posted so I tried to put it another way. Since you didn't like the example lets try to get a response to the same issue explained a third way. Two people engaged in a grapple. Player A tries to disarm player B. Opposed check. Player B tries to prevent Player A from disarming them. Player A rolls 9. Player B rolls 8. Go ahead explain the outcome giving rules references - they both have succeeded according to the rules you keep pointing out.

But you'd better also go read MGT Core page 50, because if you're argument is that 7- isn't explicitly a failure, then you've obviously NOT read the rules on page 50.

I have, and that's why I tried to be careful about my wording.

Where does it explain that less than 8 is a loss?

I am not arguing, as you put it, "that 7- isn't explicitly a failure".

In an opposing check someone can lose the opposed check even though they roll 8+ because their opponent rolls higher. They don't win. I believe you support this? Doesn't this break the rules on page 48, 49 and page 50 that 8+ is a success? If there can be success and a loss, why can't there be failure and a win?

The opposed check rule is quite short and simple. Higher effect wins.

Anything else is an individuals personal inference and that's fine with me.

In my original post I stated "An alternate view" not "this is how the rules are meant to be interpreted".