General How to play with passive players

[coliver988]

I just finished up a mini-campaign with two friends. Both were fairly passive players and rarely took any initiative on their own. While this works if you have a few active, outgoing players, what do you do when the entire group consists of players that don't seem to really engage yet want to play?

 

[atpollard]

There seem to be two types of protagonists in story books. There are those who seem to have a drive to get themselves into trouble witout any outside help at all, and there are those who are carried along by the adventure.

I suspect that there are different sorts of books because there are different sorts of readers. Some want to imagine themselves sticking their nose into every hornet's nest they encounter because that is where the adventure in life is. Others wany to be swept up in events and react to them, deriving their pleasure from the surprise and the interaction with the unexpected.

Start by talking with the passive players about what they want and expect.
Then perhaps a little bit of events catching up to them and sweeping them away might be in order (like "The Patriot" or "Narnia").

If you find a better answer, LET ME KNOW!
(I've struggled with the same thing at times.)

 

[atpollard]

What do you do when the entire group consists of players that don't seem to really engage yet want to play?

But while I give a pretty good overview of the world and work up the key people they may meet, I always thought we'd ad lib the actual play and let things unfold with a few plot points they may take. They never took.

With this new piece of information, I have a slightly better piece of advice. This is probably not a great way to describe it, but it is how I visualize the concept.

My game world has 'Plot Threads' flowing through it and I have a time log that tracks these plot threads. Most plot threads start out as random events with a random time frame that form a barest of outlines. [Two crime syndicates will begin to struggle for control of a city on X date, it will erupt into gunfights on the streets on Y date and Side A will win on Z date.] is a typical thread. There may be anywhere from 3 to 5 threads at the start of a game. The characters may pursue or ignore any and all threads, but the threads do not disappear. As they do whatever they do, the ignored threads continue to chug along silently in the background until a planned date arrives, then the thread again becomes part of their lives. They ignored the rumor about tensions on the street, then a few days later, there is a gun battle involving rival gangs near their hotel and they witness a bystander shot by a stray bullet. They have a second chance to get involved in this thread or not.

Each day, I roll to add another random thread to the bundle. Something unpredictable that they can run across. So they have a constant stream of rumors and events to choose from. The issue is, both actions and inactions have consequences and they see the results of what they do and what they ignore. It is not a punishment/reward, it is just part of life. Big D*mn Heroes have the ability to impact events.

Any 'Thread' the character takes an interest in, becomes more detailed. In addition, the actions of the character will often trigger the start of a new 'Plot Thread' (good or bad) that is tracked in general outline forward in time.

What I am always looking for is "what threads are they in a position to intersect at this time and location?" What rumors does each person they meet know about that the players can get a glimpse at what is happening out of sight.

The players have lots of plots to choose from, the plots do not go away, and the longer they ignore some things, the worse the situation becomes ... eventually, they can't ignore it any longer.

That's what I have tried.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I just finished up a mini-campaign with two friends. Both were fairly passive players and rarely took any initiative on their own. While this works if you have a few active, outgoing players, what do you do when the entire group consists of players that don't seem to really engage yet want to play?

Train your players to say where their characters are, and what they are doing, whenever they open their mouths at the table. Just saying those two things will keep the action going and give the Referee/Players plenty of ideas for what can happen next.

 

[robject]

I tend to be a passive player. I think asking what the players expect, and that they want to get out of the game, or perhaps what their characters want to do is the right place to start.

If they didn't want to play in the sandbox, they wouldn't have brought their plastic sci-fi toys out in the first place. Figure out their style by asking questions and coming to an agreement... make up a list of maybe seven overarching things they want to see. For example...

I want...
* some ship combat
* an evil empire to fight
* ruins to explore, Indiana Jones-style
* gadgets, neat gadgets
* a planetoid that I can carve a safe hideout/base into
* Chamax bugs to shoot

...and so on.

 

[Ulsyus]

I just finished up a mini-campaign with two friends. Both were fairly passive players and rarely took any initiative on their own. While this works if you have a few active, outgoing players, what do you do when the entire group consists of players that don't seem to really engage yet want to play?

How much did you involve them in the discussion about what you were going to run for them? If they're in from the ground up I've found in the past that the players, even passive ones, have a stake in the game and are a little more engaged.

Then again, you may have just rolled double ones on this one.

 

[flykiller]

what do you do when the entire group consists of players that don't seem to really engage yet want to play?

first, ask them what they want. they may have forgotten what they want.

second, chances are they're just along for the ride and the scenery, so give them a ride and some scenery. maybe they'll remember what they want.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I just finished up a mini-campaign with two friends. Both were fairly passive players and rarely took any initiative on their own. While this works if you have a few active, outgoing players, what do you do when the entire group consists of players that don't seem to really engage yet want to play?

It's happened to me more than once. To me it says they really don't want to play. The truth is they may just be intimidated and not really know how to play, but I'm not a therapist, and I'm not there to try and prod them into taking more action ... though I have tried a few times, and in a friendly GM sort of way.

Anecdote; I used to game with a hardcore D&D type way back in 88 or 89. He found his religion through D&D (shudder), and played clerics and wizards. A very nice man who buttoned his plaid collared shirts all the way up to the top button, but never wore a tie. His personality was diametrically opposite to the martial arts crowd I gamed with at the time.

The story is that we were in some cave complex infested with the usual; orcs and undead, and we wandered into this sacred crypt with some kind of bejeweled chest and other goodies ... golden candlesticks and the like. It was a short cut to a place where the nasty evil king's castle was, who was sending black flying demons to harass the town we had defended (successfully). So, one of our guys just starts to approach the thing, and undead skeletons come up out of the ground.

Our clerical/wizard type shook his head, made some comments, and said his character was backing away. I had had enough of this guy, so I told the DM that my character (an 18/100 Str warrior) grabs the "the clergy" (I made up a new religious name for the dude every time I talked about him ... he was that annoying) by the collar, and throws him into the front ranks with his holy hammer (or mace .... I can't remember).

At which time said player ran up to a skeleton and did his darndest to inflict physical damage on an enemy, and, for the first time in the entire campaign.

There's other instances. The guy who bought me Traveller was more of chemistry type, and also played passively. And that too got annoying, and I did something similar during a Traveller session just to get a point across. I can't remember what it was. He was playing a defected Zho working for the Imps, and a fire fight broke out somehow, and he took cover so he could save his skin or somesuch.

Those kinds of players really do get on my nerves. And typically I don't invite them back anymore. Of course now that I've written this, watch my next gaming session be filled with those kinds of players, and I'll be forced to throw all of them out and what? Give up gaming? I don't think so.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Those kinds of players really do get on my nerves. And typically I don't invite them back anymore. Of course now that I've written this, watch my next gaming session be filled with those kinds of players, and I'll be forced to throw all of them out and what? Give up gaming? I don't think so.

I refuse to be that Referee that says, "What do you guys do?" or "Are you sure you want to do that?" I'd rather start a Traveller game with players new tabletop gaming, than act as a facilitator to a group that just wants to sit and be entertained and be told what awesome things their characters do.

 

[robject]

Sometimes our options are limited.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I refuse to be that Referee that says, "What do you guys do?" or "Are you sure you want to do that?" I'd rather start a Traveller game with players new tabletop gaming, than act as a facilitator to a group that just wants to sit and be entertained and be told what awesome things their characters do.

The reverse is that I remember a couple of players for other systems who really got into the game, but didn't want to play. One guy was laughing it up and appeared to be having a blast. We were playing a Car Wars campaign out of one of the Autoduel Quarterlies.

I've written about this before but this was the famous instance where our convoy got approached by tambourine banging Hari Krishnas, who came up to our car windows and characters asking for donations. The guy running the game went around the table asking each player in turn, and said new-comer flatly laughed and said "no", which is when the Hari Krishnas whipped out their Mac-10 submachineguns and sprayed us and our cars. I vaporized one with my turreted laser, and the new player just thought it was the most hilarious thing ever. A Car Wars character can only take three points of damage, but a Car Wars LASER shells out something like 3d6 of damage. And the image of this weapon just plowing through an unarmored character just sent the guy into hysterics.

But then he didn't want to play anymore after that one session. Whatever. It's like anything else, you meet all types. And I'd rather have a dozen of him at each gaming session, even if they're new faces, than passive people who are too intimidated or don't want to be there because it's not their favorite system.

 

[LiNeNoiSe]

Try putting them in the military or an intelligence agency. They have to go where they're told.

That sometimes works with D&D players.

 

[Blue Ghost]

In a Traveller session I ran a few years back, the guy hosting the session intentionally got drunk, and couple other players "called in sick". Drunk host got really obnoxious, but it was his house. So, what are you going to do?

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

The lurker strikes!

Train your players to say where their characters are, and what they are doing, whenever they open their mouths at the table. Just saying those two things will keep the action going and give the Referee/Players plenty of ideas for what can happen next.

Although it has been years since I have refereed a game, I am planning a grand adventure for a friend the next time i see him. I will ave everything set up so all he has to do is throw dice and talk. This will be a one-on-one game, but i thought about other games I did.

Everyone needs something to do. With the Darwinistic TRAVELLER universe, every skill may ave an application somewhere, especially with devious players who want to spoil your plans for their characters. It is a tough balancing act, but it can be done if multiple characters are involved, say a naval for shipboard and a marine for the landing party.

 

[GypsyComet]

In a fantasy context, passive players are those that expect you to throw ONE obvious quest at them, which they will then seek to complete in as straight a line as possible. Extra setting details are for immersion purposes and are rarely considered as clues to adventure in their own right.

Traveller is not as well suited to this mode of play as D&D is, but does have the tools necessary to feel expansive to the Ref while feeling comfortably linear to passive players. The various incarnations of the "random" Patron system may resonate with such players; someone approaches them with a task and offers recompense for doing it. String these together, either with interludes of trading or just narrating that into routine if they aren't interested, and YOU will get to drag them around to visit all the places you want them to visit and THEY will be entertained with their task resolutions and problem solving.

If you want to slowly train them to be more active, use a rumors matrix to drop side hints. If they are paying attention, eventually one or more of those hints may elicit a "wait a minute" moment as they begin to suspect that a side hint may actually be the next step in their current active quest, or just be helpful even if not related.

As an example of starting a campaign on this basis, I would consider starting with a random planet-bound Patron or two to get the (shipless) PC's itchy to escape their starting world, then offer them Foodrunner (JTAS Amber Zone) at the same time as another planet-bound patron that offers enough payment to get a ticket somewhere else. The choice between passage money or a ship will provide you with a clue about what they want even if they can't put it in words at the beginning.

If they choose passage but soon regret it (say you run Aces and Eights on their trip), have a Patron waiting for them with a gateway to Annic Nova (or similar with a less idiosyncratic ship), or introduce yet another branch of the food smugglers from Foodrunner. They're everywhere, after all.

If they go the ship route, another random patron or two will ease the way into running Kinunir, spreading out the chapters with more randoms. The rumors matrix in Kinunir may be the hook that finally gets them to be more active, but if not you've still run months of Traveller for happy, if less imaginative, players.

 

[pshrynk]

Sometimes passive players are trying to learn the rules, both house and mechanics, and are shy about asking questions.

 

[AsenRG]

I just finished up a mini-campaign with two friends. Both were fairly passive players and rarely took any initiative on their own. While this works if you have a few active, outgoing players, what do you do when the entire group consists of players that don't seem to really engage yet want to play?

First, you ask them whether they really want to play that.

Second, you tell them to write at least three goals per character on their character sheets, which don't include the words "credit" or any numbers. Then award XP, or some meta-game resource if you're not using XP, depending on how much they do to chase said goals.
Of course, then you have to present them with a setting where they have many opportunities. But hopefully, you're doing that already!

 

[coliver988]

Along with the other advice from everyone, thanks. Next time I referee we'll establish the ground rules as to what they really want to play and what their goals are as players and characters. They did say they were having fun and enjoyed it but at times it was hard to tell.

 

[Timerover51]

In a Traveller session I ran a few years back, the guy hosting the session intentionally got drunk, and couple other players "called in sick". Drunk host got really obnoxious, but it was his house. So, what are you going to do?

You leave. I have done that at times. The interesting thing is once one player gets up and leaves because of a drunk, the rest of the players follow fairly quickly. The drunk never hosts another event. Period.

 

[epicenter00]

I just finished up a mini-campaign with two friends. Both were fairly passive players and rarely took any initiative on their own. While this works if you have a few active, outgoing players, what do you do when the entire group consists of players that don't seem to really engage yet want to play?

As others have pointed out, there are broadly three types of players who play RPGs.

There are players who want (or insist) on playing in a sandbox where they're allowed to do whatever they want. Many of them almost egregiously so; if you give them a plot angle, they'll intentionally avoid because they want their "freedom." I call these "Free Agency" or "Bethesda" RPers after the game company known for their open world sandboxes; the idea that their fate is their own is very important, choice or the convincing illusion of it is all-consuming for them. The impression I get is the larger portion of players and GMs on CotI are sandbox players and sort of look down on the other kinds.

The other major camp are the "rails" players. I call them the Visual Novel (VN) RPGers. They want to play out dramatic scenes and be part of epic stories -- that is their whole reason for playing. They want to feel a part of the story, they even want central parts of in it, but what they don't demand are total freedom. They enjoy playing the role of someone with a "destiny" or a "quest"; a destination that they cannot really avoid. They like clear signs of where they should go and what they should do next; these should not be told directly by the GM but instead should be a logical (and clear) outcome of in-world events. The most blunt of this kind of quest are the infamous "collect all the parts of the Rod of 12 Parts." However, most movie plots also are a good example; the heroes go from scene to scene by clues they found in the earlier scene (You find evidence the evil empire plans to attack the good kingdom -> The kingdom will want to know -> Journey to the kingdom pursued by agents of the empire -> etc). Most of these kinds of players enjoy playing games like D&D (dungeons have a clear goal - go into the dungeon, get the loot, fight the final monster and get out. The goal and methods are clear and unambiguous) or the Star Wars RPG (dramatic storylines). These kinds of players find sandbox games dull or pointless because there's "nothing to do." Often I find these kinds of players are passive because they don't want to make the "wrong" choice - the choice that leads to more "pointless" stuff that the GM didn't prepare for and doesn't lead to the more "interesting" stuff. If you're running games for this sort, it's (in a way) easier than that freeform games - players like this want entertaining scenes or "set-piece" situations.

The third group of course, are the really passive players. Sometimes they're disinterested (eg; they're looking at their cellphones the entire game). Sometimes they're not sure what they can do - they want to do things, but the whole "roleplaying game" thing isn't very clear to them. That group you need to speak with them to find out what they're into.