Is the Emperor venerated by any one or is he viewed as the head bureaucrat? Do imperial officers swear oaths of allegiance to the Emperor or to the Imperium? I guess what I’m asking aside from force and economic factors how does the Emperor hold the Imperium together?
Imperial Dogma
- Thread starter Thanos
- Start date
as far as I am aware, the oaths are to the emperor rather than the Imperium. He is more a symbol than a head administrator. Oaths flow to local nobles to more senior nobles and then onto the emperor.
Armed forces oaths will be to the emperor via the normal chain of command. Lost of admirals are nobles.
What keeps the empire together - look at the pacification campaigns, originally it was free trade and anti-piracy measures. Then it was trade and TL support, and general protection. Trade embargoes and some military action brought the last few stragglers into line.
Now trade benefits are the major ones, but local peace, TL support etc. together with personnal loyality of nobles to their superiors. The 3I does keep some intelligence and other agencies etc. to keep an eye on nobles, mega-corps, mercs etc.
Armed forces oaths will be to the emperor via the normal chain of command. Lost of admirals are nobles.
What keeps the empire together - look at the pacification campaigns, originally it was free trade and anti-piracy measures. Then it was trade and TL support, and general protection. Trade embargoes and some military action brought the last few stragglers into line.
Now trade benefits are the major ones, but local peace, TL support etc. together with personnal loyality of nobles to their superiors. The 3I does keep some intelligence and other agencies etc. to keep an eye on nobles, mega-corps, mercs etc.
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
that said, in an empire of 15,000 worlds, i can see room for a proper Imperial Cult, as the romans had, where the current emperor and certian, famous past emperors are worshipped as gods.
No, the Emperor appoints/confirms all nobles and all nobles swear loyalty directly to him (by proxy, if necessary). Lower nobles may report through higher nobles and get orders from the Emperor through those higher nobles.
Although the Imperium has been referred to as a feudal system, it's not. As described, it's an autocracy with a few pseudo-feudal trappings.
Hans
Oaths are to the Imperium through the person of the Emperor.
His published word is law.
Imperial legislation is literally whatever the emperor signs as law.
The only official check is that, if he's a danger, mad, etc, the moot can dissolve the imperium... or have him assassinated.
The practical matter is that the Emperor is limited by what the Nobles, Navy and Bureaucracy will enforce and promulgate.
An Emperor declaring in a moot session that henceforth all nobles will be succeeded by elected persons from within their sees probably wouldn't live long enough to matter, and the moot would promptly elect their new emperor, who would then repeal it, and life would go on as before. The news would probably only be passed that the emperor died of heart failure during the moot meeting.
Likewise, an emperor decreeing that henceforth all worlds will pay an MCr1 per head annual tax would find the nobles and navy unwilling to enforce same - because it would cripple their homes. The Emperor could declare it, and it would be law, but enforcement just wouldn't happen, as it would render the navy without anyplace to put in as the member worlds quickly went into massive rebellion. A Cr1 per head special annual assessment, however, would be an entirely different matter
I don't know why but I expected more from your answer.
My T4 books aren't accessible, so I can't give detailed citations on much of it.
Other than that, tho', there really isn't much more to the Imperium than the Emperor determines law. It's implied that the Archdukes and Sector Dukes also have the same lawmaking authority limited by not contradicting the Emperor. (And that the individual nobles are in fealty to the Emperor, not the Dukes and Archdukes, save for Baronets.)
It's just the nature of autocracy.
Xerxeskingofking
SOC-13
thats the stick, the carrot is that being a member of the imperium has many benefits for both the noble and his domain. his world(s) get the protection of the navy, free trade, and the ability to run themselves pretty much as they like, the noble get to be a important decision maker (i.e. gets power), but one in a hands off position that owes it's status to a authority beyond local reproach
also, several books i have see play up the "personal honour" angle. they're loyal becuase they are men of thier word who have sworn an oath to the Emperor.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
All hail his majesty, God-Emperor of all Mankind, Strephon!
He sits upon a Golden (err, Iridium) Throne and powers the Astronomicon (err, Moot) to bind the Imperium together!
All hail, all hail, all hail!
(No, don't shoot me! No! NO!)
He is not merely a head bureaucrat. He is the head of state for the Third Imperium with full executive, legislative, and judicial powers, tempered by existing agreements and traditions (such as allowing autonomy for member worlds).
He sits upon a Golden (err, Iridium) Throne and powers the Astronomicon (err, Moot) to bind the Imperium together!
All hail, all hail, all hail!
(No, don't shoot me! No! NO!)
There is no official information about religious veneration of the Emperor (I think), although he is sufficiently important that there is no doubt that many Imperial Citizens would feel personally awed with his mere presence. Some would hate him, too. It is well within possibility that some individuals somewhere have established a cult regarding the Emperor.
He is not merely a head bureaucrat. He is the head of state for the Third Imperium with full executive, legislative, and judicial powers, tempered by existing agreements and traditions (such as allowing autonomy for member worlds).
What's an "Imperial officer"? Nobles swear personal oaths of fealty directly to the Emperor. Military officers swear their military oath to their service, the laws of which probably point out that the Emperor is the supreme commander.
Force and economic factors are the primary means. Other factors, like tradition and law, are also strong.
Personal honor, rewards of stocks in the megacorps, and economic interests tied to the rest of the imperium by those megacorporate stocks.
Plus, remember that nobility is a reward for service to the Imperium. When a caste is renewed by service, it tends to inculcate a sense of service, especially since acting against the imperium is a crime.
I think it no coincidence that 40K gets announced right after GDW pulls GW's license to Traveller. 40K looks very much like "Traveller gets another infusion of Dune." Just remember, Traveller's setting came first.
Another excellent Traveller-derived setting with different mechanics is the Era Ten setting, consisting of the FSRP installations of the RPG's Battle Born and G/Sol, and narrative wargame Jump & Die.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
If you want a more historical account, the Sylean Federation had its own aristocracy for at least seven centuries prior to the establishment of the Third Imperium.
Cleon Zhunastu was a member of that aristocracy and was pretty much at the top. So much so he was voted Grand Duke of the Sylean Federation for life. Eventually he elevated himself by fiat (Warrant of Restoration), force of military power, wealth, prestige, support from followers, and on an undoubted wave of public popularity, into the position of Emperor of the Third Imperium.
I have seen at least one fan proposal (The Iridium Throne campaign) that Cleon claimed descent back to an individual who was a claimant to rule the Second Imperium, whose rulers in turn claimed to have rightfully claimed control of the stars from the First Imperium. Whether or not that was based on something from T4's Milieu 0, I cannot say; I had always thought it was original.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
I know the history and publication dates. WH40K's Imperium history does not pre-date the OTU.
(I was hoping the comments would generate a laugh, but I can't win them all.)
It's partly from Milieu 0 (p. 77 and 90). Cleon didn't claim to be descended from Francis Repzinski himself, but he did claim to be the legal successor of Francis and that Francis had been the legitimate Regent of the Rule of Man.
Hans
And a duke isn't a noble, he's a military commander. Back in the days of the Roman Republic, anyway.
A regent isn't in a line of succession, they are a place holder.
'Regent of the Rule of Man' was the title he used. Maybe he had some sort of Steward of Gondor thing going.
Remember, the Rule of Man fractured into many successor states, all claiming to be the One True Second Imperium. The one centered on Sylea was merely one of them.
Well... not merely; as Cleon pointed out, it was the true one.
Hans
When it comes to the nobility only the Emperor can ‘make’ a noble. So even if a Baron is outranked by a Duke he still owes fealty directly to the Emperor. The exception, IIRC, is that Archdukes can ‘make’ Baronets (the Emperor can, as Emperor or as Archduke of Sylea, also ‘make’ Baronets but usually doesn’t) ... so most Baronets own fealty directly to their Archduke and thus only indirectly to the Emperor. (CT Supplement 11)
I believe one of the MegaTraveller PC games had an Oath of Allegiance for members of the Imperial armed forces in the game manual. I don’t have it to hand at the moment but vaguely remember it was to the Emperor. However, how canonical it is is not for me to say.
For the masses I suspect the view of the Emperor varies wildly from planet to planet.
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