Impossible Dream: Simple Traveller Ship Combat System [defined]

[robject]

Behold one of my impossible dreams.


Simple: Abstraction trumps simulation. Mechanics remove mental burden.

Traveller: Faithfully represents all facets of Traveller ship combat.

Ship: From smallcraft to dreadnoughts.

Combat: Involves sensors, weapons, active and passive defenses, hit locations, and critical hits.

System: Character-based tasks.



These five criteria define an exceedingly small concept space. Maybe a nonexistent one -- but if it were easy to find this, everyone would already have done it, and where's the challenge in that?

 

[aramis]

Behold one of my impossible dreams.


[1] Simple: Abstraction trumps simulation. Mechanics remove mental burden.

[2] Traveller: Faithfully represents all facets of Traveller ship combat.

[3] Ship: From smallcraft to dreadnoughts.

[4] Combat: Involves sensors, weapons, active and passive defenses, hit locations, and critical hits.

[5] System: Character-based tasks.



These five criteria define an exceedingly small concept space. Maybe a nonexistent one -- but if it were easy to find this, everyone would already have done it, and where's the challenge in that?

Added numbering -.
1 is at odds with 2 given 3 - they're pretty much antithetical, as traveller is, at its aged core, simulationist, and abstracting loses the flavor —or— rules out #3.
4, again, is pretty antithetical to #1.

 

[kilemall]

Well, obviously I'm on the wonk side of the issue, but I also have a hardcore starship combat games playerbase.

While deciding whether to honor or ditch the whole system, the one thing making me consider completely redoing it was that the hardware tends to override the characters in large amounts.

I didn't mostly because this is a nostalgia trip, not because I am in love with it.

A more character/player based system would suit me just fine.

 

[atpollard]

It might need a simpler stimulationist mechanic, but "abstract" runs contrary to established design rules and damage tables.
How do you translate "Ship HP" back into x% of pp needs to be replaced at a shipyard?

 

[McPerth]

These five criteria define an exceedingly small concept space. Maybe a nonexistent one -- but if it were easy to find this, everyone would already have done it, and where's the challenge in that?

Are you looking for a system for RPG, for strategic games (FFW, Imperium style) of for something in betweel (as TCS campaign)?

I ask because each system must stress some of your criteria at expense of others.

 

[robject]

"abstract" runs contrary to established design rules and damage tables.

And also see Wil's post.

So what we have are complex interactions. If we model it like Traveller usually models it, then we have a computer program that's run by hand.

But we already know we can get complex effects without complex rules, by applying some creative problem-solving. That's what I'm wondering about.

 

[robject]

I could, for example, postpone damage calculations until after combat is over.

Consider that a ship could have damage levels that reflect difficulty levels. A damaged ship will find it more difficult to do things: more difficult to sense, move, attack, and defend, among other things.

Consider that a ship could be modeled like a character, with characteristics which receive damage. Something less than High Guard's USP, but more than Traveller5's QSP. Probably, the QSP with one short, summary Extension.

Pair those two concepts together, and you have a damage track for ships that's generalized but useful for the purpose of the combat round. After combat is over, then damage to each subsystem is calculated in the typical form, except because it's calculated at the end, it's only done once for each component of the ship.

 

[atpollard]

And also see Wil's post.

So what we have are complex interactions. If we model it like Traveller usually models it, then we have a computer program that's run by hand.

But we already know we can get complex effects without complex rules, by applying some creative problem-solving. That's what I'm wondering about.

My first thought was ...

8+ to Hit on 2D6
Modifiers:
+ Gunner skill (shooter)
- Pilot skill (evade)
+ Target Ship Size (exponential value)
- Range Band (linear value)
(Only the range constantly changes, the others can be calculated once for each ship.)

Hits on "Surface Damage", "Interior Damage" and "Radiation Damage" tables.
Missiles roll on "Surface Damage" ... destroy weapons, sensors and armor.
Lasers punch pinhole in armor and roll on "Interior Damage" ... destroy Cargo, MD, JD, PP and Fuel.
Particle Accelerators roll on "Radiation Damage" ... degrades computer and crew performance.
Plasma/Fusion roll "Surface" and "Radiation" Damage (50/50 split?)

Damage is measured on dTons of ship destroyed.
Turret Weapons destroy 1 dTon per hit.
Bay Weapons destroy 10 dTons per hit.
Spinal Weapons destroy 100 dTons per hit.
(weapon factor like system determines the number of "hits" per battery.)


Lots of details to be worked out ... Armor is probably a damage modifier ... number of hits for Bay/Spinal Factor ... detailed Damage Tables to roll on.
... That's what comes to my mind, but it feels a LOT more 'simulation' than 'abstract' ... so I didn't know if it qualified under your Opening Post.

 

[robject]

My first thought was ...

[variation on Book 2 space combat]

... That's what comes to my mind, but it feels a LOT more 'simulation' than 'abstract' ... so I didn't know if it qualified under your Opening Post.

Yah, when I start from there, I get bogged down. It would make High Guard look like a walk in the park.

 

[atpollard]

Yah, when I start from there, I get bogged down. It would make High Guard look like a walk in the park.

So what about borrowing a page from the Character Combat and assign "HP" to three ship "Attributes" ... "Surface", "Interior" and "Crew" ... measured in dTons.
Surface = Armor + Weapons + 1/2 Bridge
Interior = Engineering + Cargo + Fuel
Crew = Staterooms + Computer + 1/2 Bridge

Then Weapons score Hits (in dTons) on "Attributes".
1 attribute reduced to 0 is a mission kill.

Ship Combat works just like personal combat.
At the end of combat, the big ugly tables can convert the "Attribute" damage into actual tonnage of components destroyed if you want/need the data.

Again, all of the Skill and Weapon Details can be converted into a single "Attack" bonus for each weapon type and a "Defense" bonus for each ship.

You can even reduce range bands to the basic 6+, 8+, 10+ and 12+ Target numbers on 2D6.

2D6 + Attack - Defense with a target of 6+ to 12+ based on Range Bands.

 

[robject]

So what about borrowing a page from the Character Combat and assign "HP" to three ship "Attributes" ... "Surface", "Interior" and "Crew" ... measured in dTons.
Surface = Armor + Weapons + 1/2 Bridge
Interior = Engineering + Cargo + Fuel
Crew = Staterooms + Computer + 1/2 Bridge

Then Weapons score Hits (in dTons) on "Attributes".
1 attribute reduced to 0 is a mission kill.

Ship Combat works just like personal combat.
[...]

That IS interesting. I'll think about that some.