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Incan Republic

Does it realy work?

I know it was created by Argentina and Mexico who encouraged Peru and Ecuador to unite as a bufer to Brazil, with Colombia joining later on to improve its status. Although I can see Peru and Ecuador remaining united under a common Amerindian heritage (although Peru is only 45% Amerindian and Ecuador 25%), 35% of Colombia's population is European and 51% Mestizoe? I think Colombia would have been better off joining with Venezuela.

The Incan's also cooperate a lot with Texas in the Chinese Arms, odd considerings one of its main backers is Mexico. The 2320AD construction of a Beanstalk Elevator near Quito is an interesting choice. With all the foreign investment flowing into the country and the Latin and North American powers all manouvering themselves for a share of the pie. All the added security from Rebco SAR might tempt Ecuador to declare its independence from the basket case Incan economy after the Beanstalk is built, and sell out to the highest bidder.
 
Does it realy work?

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The 2320AD construction of a Beanstalk Elevator near Quito is an interesting choice. With all the foreign investment flowing into the country and the Latin and North American powers all manouvering themselves for a share of the pie. All the added security from Rebco SAR might tempt Ecuador to declare its independence from the basket case Incan economy after the Beanstalk is built, and sell out to the highest bidder.

To answer your question, no, not really.

The Inca Republic is a creation of Argentina and Mexico, but as Mexico is changing its policies in 2320 AD I think that the ruling party of the Inca Republic is trying to get more independent and might end up controlled by other interests. This is especially true as the beanstalk is being built in Quito. That is why the Inca Republic has not joined Argentina's side in the 4th Rio Plata War, but stayed neutral. The Incan leaders are sensing that changes are going to happen, and they cannot cling on to their former Argentinian patrons.

To understand the Inca Republic I think we once again have to look at the 80's when GDW published 2300 AD. The Inca Republic was meant as a weaker crook state/reflection of American popular culture views of South America (especially important as GDW actually changed so many countries in Latin America into modern states). Add to that a bit of guerilla/Che Guevara mythos, and you've got the Inca Republic.
 
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To understand the Incan Republic I think we once again have to look at the 80's when GDW published 2300 AD. The Incan Republic was meant as a weaker crook state/ reflection of American popular culture views of South America (especially important as GDW actually changed so many countries in Latin America into modern states). Add to that a bit of guerilla/Che Guevara mythos, and you've got the Incan Republic.

This is pretty much it.

I've always felt that GDW slipped in the Inca Republic as one of those corrupt, "brutalist" states where they throw off their "colonial oppressors" then end up doing the exact same things their former oppressors did. The nation doesn't really, except for the large quantities of foreign aid plowed into it by states that might be embarrassed by it, but pulling out would result in even a greater loss of face, so they sort of continue support.

That such a state somehow manages to get a colony going and so on just shows the level of foreign aid going into the country.
 
The beanstalk probably causes a lot of interesting upheaval. Look at other poor countries where one big project/oilfield/industry gets enormous foreign investment.

Hmm, I wonder if one could do a cross-over with Bruce Baugh’s Heaven Over Mountain-setting in Ex Machina? His setup is perhaps more positive than what would exist in Quito (or for that matter Libreville and Indonesia), but maybe one could turn it inot "Barrio Over Mountain"?
 
The beanstalk probably causes a lot of interesting upheaval. Look at other poor countries where one big project/oilfield/industry gets enormous foreign investment.

Hmm, I wonder if one could do a cross-over with Bruce Baugh’s Heaven Over Mountain-setting in Ex Machina? His setup is perhaps more positive than what would exist in Quito (or for that matter Libreville and Indonesia), but maybe one could turn it inot "Barrio Over Mountain"?

I think that would be a great idea, and while Baugh's beanstalk is actually in Colombia, the positive parts of the setting are in the beanstalk. Outside the beanstalk the Inca Republic would fit quite well.

2320 AD says on page 60 that the Quito beanstalk will open in the year 2324, lots of good adventure opportunities.
 
I know it was created by Argentina and Mexico who encouraged Peru and Ecuador to unite as a bufer to Brazil, with Colombia joining later on to improve its status. Although I can see Peru and Ecuador remaining united under a common Amerindian heritage (although Peru is only 45% Amerindian and Ecuador 25%), 35% of Colombia's population is European and 51% Mestizoe? I think Colombia would have been better off joining with Venezuela.

I'm agree too, Venezuela, Colombia and southern Panama could have formed another Hispanic power.

Bolivia is a better "choice" for a Incan membership, atleast better than Colombia.

I also see Paraguay falling inside the Argentinian sphere, like Chile and Uruguay.

The Incan's also cooperate a lot with Texas in the Chinese Arms, odd considerings one of its main backers is Mexico. The 2320AD construction of a Beanstalk Elevator near Quito is an interesting choice. With all the foreign investment flowing into the country and the Latin and North American powers all manouvering themselves for a share of the pie. All the added security from Rebco SAR might tempt Ecuador to declare its independence from the basket case Incan economy after the Beanstalk is built, and sell out to the highest bidder.

In 2320 the Inca-Texas relationship is not in their top. Texas suspicions about supporting Incan rebels in Austin's World, and Heidelsheimat and Inca Rep strengthen their relations wont help. Mexico may changed its government, but the Hispanic Elevator is an important issue as so is the 4th Rio Plata War, Mexico has much to loose now, the Tantalum deposits in Sheol, I see Mexico supporting the beanstalk security and the Argentinian forces at Alpha Centauri and Omicron2 Eridani systems.
 
To understand the Inca Republic I think we once again have to look at the 80's when GDW published 2300 AD. The Inca Republic was meant as a weaker crook state/reflection of American popular culture views of South America (especially important as GDW actually changed so many countries in Latin America into modern states). Add to that a bit of guerilla/Che Guevara mythos, and you've got the Inca Republic.

I've thought that the beginnings of the Incan Republic can be traced to the pre- and post-Twilight era, when--I think--Shining Path controlled half of Peru before the Twilight Zone. One Khmer Rouge-style Year Zero later, and you've got an ideologically radical country looking for trouble somewhere.
 
I've thought that the beginnings of the Incan Republic can be traced to the pre- and post-Twilight era, when--I think--Shining Path controlled half of Peru before the Twilight Zone. One Khmer Rouge-style Year Zero later, and you've got an ideologically radical country looking for trouble somewhere.

I intended it as the inspiration for the GDW writers. The Sendero Luminoso was noticeable in the public mind in the 80's.

In the 2300 AD setting AFAIK the beginning of the Inca Republic was found in anti-Brazilian guerillas. Peru and Ecuador were dominated by Brazil up until the 3rd Rio Plata War. That war broke Brazil's dominance over South America, as Argentina and Mexico united their efforts. Thus the Inca Republic was formed, with Colombia joining later.

GDW probably sensed that the issue of Amerindian heritage was going to become more felt in South America. In the 80's there was a lot of talk about the last Amerindian tribes in the Amazon jungle, and Sendero Luminoso had some tendencies too. Actually, GDW were not far off, as the issue has come up in our times- as shown by the conflicts in Bolivia with president Evo Morales (I think that Bolivia would be a much better part of the Inca Republic than Colombia).
 
Although the issue of Amerindian civil rights is relevant to foundation of the Incan Republic in the 2300AD setting when its was written in the 1980's, the problem I have with the Shining Path movement is that it is and idealogical based Maoist organisation. This would put it at odds with its Argentine and Mexican backers who's governements could be considered right wing and expanionist. Argentina pretty much dominates all of its South American neighbours, while Mexico took over all of Central America.

Also unlike most other Latin countries, Argentinians are overwhelmingly of European origin. Even in Mexico which is largely Mestizoe, Mexicans of Spanish colonial origin are dominant in politics, land ownership and big business. I can't see them backing a radical left wing movement who wants to turn the clock back to zero and is a champion of forceable land transfer back to the native Indians. However the fact that they are also an anti-Brazilian guerilla movement might persuade them to back them, although I can see Argentina and Mexico quickly backing the more sensible leadership and eradicating the looney fringe once Peru and Ecuador gain independence from Brazilian domination.
 
I think yes, I think of the Inca Republic as something like what if Sendero took over Peru. I believe with its mainly Indian population and attitudes by Indians, real or stereotyped, Bolivia fits better to the Inca Republic than Colombia. Looks like Colombia only joined for opportunity. Colombia is mainly mestizo in origin.

I view the Inca republic as a third-world postmodern radical state with starships.
 
Although the issue of Amerindian civil rights is relevant to foundation of the Incan Republic in the 2300AD setting when its was written in the 1980's, the problem I have with the Shining Path movement is that it is and idealogical based Maoist organisation. This would put it at odds with its Argentine and Mexican backers who's governements could be considered right wing and expanionist. Argentina pretty much dominates all of its South American neighbours, while Mexico took over all of Central America.[/I]

Who's saying that it has to last beyond the mid-21st century or so? If you want a radical-tending Amerindian state of some size, given the European populations of the Southern Cone and integrated greater Mexico, then Peru really teh only possibility.

As for the large Hispanic population of Peru, well (one might say in the mid-21st century before the economy collapses), they either weren't committed to the revolution or fell prey to "mistakes."

I can't see them backing a radical left wing movement who wants to turn the clock back to zero and is a champion of forceable land transfer back to the native Indians. However the fact that they are also an anti-Brazilian guerilla movement might persuade them to back them, although I can see Argentina and Mexico quickly backing the more sensible leadership and eradicating the looney fringe once Peru and Ecuador gain independence from Brazilian domination.

Something like that makes sense--Peruvian aspirations for Tier 3 status, Ecuador's similar (?) past, and something about Columbia but what?--could combine nicely.
 
Who's saying that it has to last beyond the mid-21st century or so? If you want a radical-tending Amerindian state of some size, given the European populations of the Southern Cone and integrated greater Mexico, then Peru really teh only possibility.

Well according to Earth Sourcebook the Inca Republic is dominated by a junta of the original anti-Brazilian resistance groups who's actions to retain power have been denounced as babaric by other nations. It has also effectively closed its borders to most foreigners including putting restriction on agents of Argentina and Mexico. Life is also more primitive for Inca citizens than nearly anywhere else on Earth
 
Well according to Earth Sourcebook the Inca Republic is dominated by a junta of the original anti-Brazilian resistance groups who's actions to retain power have been denounced as babaric by other nations. It has also effectively closed its borders to most foreigners including putting restriction on agents of Argentina and Mexico. Life is also more primitive for Inca citizens than nearly anywhere else on Earth

Perhaps a sustained period of anti-European radicalism dating from before the Twilight War to the present?
 
Perhaps a sustained period of anti-European radicalism dating from before the Twilight War to the present?

Possible, but it does strike me that South American society was generally described as quite unchanged since the 80's. This is logical as the surge of Native American political activity in our time (such as Bolivia's president Evo Morales) was difficult to see back then.
 
Possible, but it does strike me that South American society was generally described as quite unchanged since the 80's. This is logical as the surge of Native American political activity in our time (such as Bolivia's president Evo Morales) was difficult to see back then.

That's true, but the Shining Path was also actively waging its guerrilla war against the Peruvian state form 1980.

My mental timeline for Peru follows the below lines.

1. In the 1980s and early 1990s, the Shining Path goes from strength to strength, drawing upon its radical Maoism and its efforts to appeal to anti-European/mestizo sentiments among the Amerindian peasantry.

2. With the Twilight War and the collapse of American support to the government, the Shining Path overcomes the remnants of "bourgeois" power in Peru. Maybe like groups spread into neighbouring countries with similar issues, like Ecuador and Bolivia.

3. Peru's Shining Path visits a Year Zero on the Peruvian population, particularly on Europeans, Asians, and mestizos. The remainder of the South American continent, caught up in its own struggles, does nothing.

4. By the mid-21st century the Peruvian government has become moderate, and Peru moves back towards the mainstream of South American life. It's still different-the genocide directed against non-Amerindians has changed the demographic and language makeup of Peru, and radical Amerindian nationalism is a more viable force, in Peru and its neighbours, than before the Twilight War.

In the two centuries between Peru's reentry into the South American mainstream and the formation of the Incan Republic, many things could have happened. Peru, with Chile, has traditionally been one of the middle powers of South America; Colombia, but especially Ecuador, comes a long way behind. If you managed to get some sort of pan-Quechua nationalism that also figured out a way to include Colombians, maybe you could get the Republic.
 
WHy does there have to be a deliberate genocide or a Shining Path victory ?

I think most people are underestimating the effects outside the warzone of the global economy collapsing. I would expect most societies to have unravelled, even if only temporarily. The lack of centralised control leaves national borders and structures open to rebuilding.

I can easily picture the (heavily european) urban dwellers fleeing the cities amidst a general breakdown in society being not so politely told to keep walking by the "peasantry"

Then its only a matter of using the Inca past as a rallying cry for locals regardless of borders. Exact geographical correspondence would not be neccessary because there seemed to be a widespread influence / trade network out from the historical Inca empire so Columbians etc could be brought in as the old "tributaries". More blatantly later on I can see the Columbian 'ruling class' joining a semi-fuedal state as the best offer around.
 
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