Is DGP needed?

[Icosahedron]

As I understand it from various net sources, DGP's World Builder's Handbook completely replaced Grand Survey and Grand Census. Further, much of the content of WBH was covered in World Tamer's Handbook and Gurps First In.

Questions:

1) Is the above correct?

2) If I own WTH and First In, are there any 'must have' rules/systems/ideas in the DGP stuff that I am missing out on, or is it pretty much all covered in the later works?

All I'm interested in is mining for ideas, and if I already have all the good ideas elsewhere, there isn't much point in me pursuing DGP stuff, as I'm not interested in it from a collector's angle and the prices are ridiculous.

 

[mike wightman]

You're good with what you've got I would say.

If you can pick up the DGP stuff cheap then it may be worth it for some of the fluff - use of sensors, equipment etc. but as you say it isn't worth paying the ridiculous prices often asked on ebay.

 

[Gruffty]

Being an obsessional collector I'd say get them all

There's stuff in DGP WBH that isn't in GT:FI or TNE:WTH - mainly social stuff about customs. There are some excellent tables to generate cultural quirks: "Elders eat first", "All men have shaved heads" etc etc. If you took all the best bits from all three (i.e. 90% of GT:FI, 50% TNE:WTH and 30% DGP:WBH) and combined them you'd have an excellent book.

 

[Supplement Four]

I didn't buy Grand Census and Grand Survey for the longest time because I had DGP's WBH since it hit the shelves. I buy all things DGP. I think they're the best publisher of Traveller material to date (including GDW).

Now that I have GC and GS, I use them in stead of WBH. But, I run a CT game, so they fit my game better. Yes, both WBH and GC/GS cover, mostly, the same material. But, there are some differences.

Are the differences enough to make me want to own GC/GS even though I own WBH? That's a "Yes" for me. It might be a "No" for other people.

I was lucky and found GC/GS for $20 each. I spent $40 total. And, I've never looked back. I love those two books.

WBH and TNE's World Tamers actually cover a lot of different material. I never use WTH, but for someone building worlds, you might be interested i it.

I have First In, but I never use it. In fact, I've never read it. I picked up a lot of GT stuff for cheap (like $2 a book), and they've been sitting onthe gaming shelf ever since.

 

[aramis]

For once, I'm in agreement with S4... the differences are meaningful between GC/GS and WBH.

 

[mike wightman]

Very, but are they worth the expense as the op asked?

I would say not.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

Well, the only thing listed in 'Digest Group Publications' on eBay right now is 101 Vehicles (a book most of us can do without) for $44 (!?).

Yeah, you can skip GS/GC for that price

 

[Supplement Four]

Very, but are they worth the expense as the op asked?

I would say not.

I would say they are worth it. Each man has to decide for himself.

I'm very glad I found both of them for $40 total. But, yes, knowing what I know now, I would have paid $80 for the two.

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

So... in a nutshell, what *are* the differences? (I have WBH and like it a lot, but not GC/GS.)

 

[aramis]

From memory, GC has 2 or three tables missing from WBH, GC and GS have CT stats for gear, while WBH has MT stats. All three use the same task system... and neither uses much task intensive material.

Grand Survey expands the physical details of worlds, and provides details on survey process. It also has the DGP task system for CT.

Grand Census provides detailing exdpansions for cultures, and how to census worlds. It also has the DGP task system for CT.

Both include some specialized gear.

WBH includes almost everything from Grand Survey, and almost all of the stuff from grand census, and lots of gear, sensor rules, survey and census rules, all for MT. It makes use of the MT task system (Which is a slight expansion of the DGP-CT task system addon) and the MT Craft Design system.

IIRC, the Religious profile is the biggest ommission, but I'd have to check to be sure.

 

[Icosahedron]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

You beat me to the obvious follow-up question, Rhialto. Opinions will differ, of course, 'worthwhile' is a very subjective term, but if I can get a listing of some of the differences between the books I can make up my own mind. So far, you're convincing me that the few extras available in GC and GS are probably not worthwhile if I can get WBH, but my mental jury is still out on whether WBH has enough to offer above WTH and FI.
Of course, If I find all of the above in a rummage box for under a tenner each, I'll pick em up anyway - but realistically that's not gonna happen.

 

[Border Reiver]

WBH trumps WTH hands down. Good as WTH is, it's more about the setting up of a macro-campaign based on colonial management and economics than any world design fun. A kind of Traveller Sim City.:smirk:

WBH (and by corollary GS/GC) is brilliant if broke, the physical science in it isn't that great (but it is nearly twenty years old now :devil. The cultural side though is amazingly useful, especially the stuff on government, religions and customs.

And First In is excellent.

 

[Merxiless]

The key is, never pay more than 40.00 tops for grand survey or grand census. it's simply not worth that much.

Because people are paying these prices, that's what the market will bear.

I have a few copies of each, If and when I sell them it will be 40.00 buy it now.

not like 150-200. That's in a word, usury.

 

[kafka47]

Given how widely aviable...if the item is in MINT condition and you are serious about Traveller...DGP is simply the best Traveller out there. Their attention to detail surpasses GDW. GDW always painted in broad strokes...whereas, DGP was for the fine detail. I would pay in the order of $80 but not more. I was "lucky" to purchase the bulk of my items back in the day...when the exchange rate was most unfavorable and snailmail communications ruled the day.

 

[BlackBat242]

My copy of Grand Census still has the price tag from the game store where I bought it (it sold new material only).

$7.00 US.

I got Grand Survey at the same time.