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J-4 or J-5 adventure vessels?

Hi All,
I wonder if there are ship designs out there for vessels between 200-400 tons, either lab-ships, merchants or scout ships, ships that characters could acquire on mustering out. Ships with better than J2, ideally J-4 or J-5. Perhaps up to 1200 tons.

All I can think of is the J-4 version of the Marava.

Are people strict with the rules and only allow canon vessels like Type-S, Type-Y and CT traders when a character is lucky on mustering out, or do you sometimes up the TL and Drive capabilities for a reduced cargo space and if so, can anyone point me towards a suitable vessel design and even better, deck plans, although I love making deckplans. Interested to know how people play this one, or do I need bringing down to earth and starting with a J-2/M-2 is better?
 
I wonder if there are ship designs out there for vessels between 200-400 tons, either lab-ships, merchants or scout ships, ships that characters could acquire on mustering out. Ships with better than J2, ideally J-4 or J-5. Perhaps up to 1200 tons.
Certainly not in CT.
All of the CT mustering out benefits top out at J2 ... even the LBB S4 Pirate Corsair.
Any and all J3+ starships would have to be "trading up" results of play after mustering out, at which point the budget available to spend on such ventures comes into play.

Note that J2 starships capable of extra fuel fraction (collapsible fuel tanks to flex cargo space are an excellent option for this) can achieve some impressive feats of range at the temporary expense of cargo capacity. If you're at all interested in reviewing my starship designs posted in this forum, you will often times find a 4+ parsec range potential in almost all of them, even in the Jump-2 starship designs.

Let me know if you need a collection of links.
 
Seems reasonable to expect some grafting.

Thank you very much, I probably have seen them, but not sure which are yours.
 
Andy Slack's Explorer Scout from White Dwarf #40 is J5 in Classic Traveller, and I am drawing up another J5-J4 scout for my setting in Cepheus Engine, all of these are 300 tons.
 
Previously, on @Spinward Flow's Lower Technology Naval Architect Office Follies ...


  • 300 ton TL=11-12 J2-3 5G Modular Couriers (MCr214.0912 and MCr223.1296 in volume)
  • 400 ton TL=10 J4 4G Modular Tug (MCr211.2848 in volume)
  • 400 ton TL=10 J4 4G LSP Clipper (MCr237.7968 in volume)
And now, the continuation ...
 
If you want J-3, build a Type S at TL-13 under High Guard (LBB5) rules and plug in a fuel purifier. Fuel tankage is slightly different, and it's a lot more expensive, but the staterooms, cargo, and air/raft fit exactly so you could probably get away with re-using the standard deck plans.
 
J5 is possible in 400Td, but there's almost no room left over. (LBB2 rules).
It's easy in 600Td, but you're looking at an 7-person crew as a minimum if the ship's unarmed. (Shugushaag-class Distant Merchant)
And of course the trade rules don't really make such a ship economically viable.

Which isn't stopping me from running a Play-by-Post/fanfic campaign set on board one of them... :D

J4 is possible in 199Td under LBB2 (and can be flown single-handed). If you get flexible with (that is, house-rule) the fuel use rates and capacity, it too can have the fittings of a Type S (4SR, air/raft, 1 turret). (Type ST Scout Transport)
 
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If I had adequate tools, I would create deckplans myself.

Cue "If I Were A Rich Man..." song soliloquy ...
I've got the tools but not the skills, I just do very basic CT style designs. Was wondering what shape you envisaged the Rift Courier.

J5 is possible in 400Td, but there's almost no room left over. (LBB2 rules).
It's easy in 600Td, but you're looking at an 7-person crew as a minimum if the ship's unarmed. (Shugushaag-class Distant Merchant)
And of course the trade rules don't really make such a ship economically viable.

Which isn't stopping me from running a Play-by-Post/fanfic campaign set on board one of them... :D

J4 is possible in 199Td under LBB2 (and can be flown single-handed). If you get flexible with (that is, house-rule) the fuel use rates and capacity, it too can have the fittings of a Type S (4SR, air/raft, 1 turret). (Type ST Scout Transport)
Thanks, very interesting. In the past I haven't paid too much attention to versions, Ships For Windows I think makes MT ships. Enjoying Boughene Station Blues!
 
MS Paint is adequate, if you're patient and persistent. Very patient, very persistent.
I'm a Mac user ... with a (by now) old 2011 iMac (that was top of the line new when I bought it).
I'm just waiting for the M2 Apple Silicon Mac Mini to arrive before swapping out.
Was wondering what shape you envisaged the Rift Courier.
The Rift Courier?
The Rift Courier would be a 2 deck high "flying saucer" type of design, albeit with a mid-deck halfway between the 2 decks around the perimeter of the craft.

The bottom deck would have the 60 ton square(-ish) single deck cargo bay in the middle that can be lowered out of the hull for true roll on/roll off cargo loading and unloading. One side would have ramp access up into the cargo bay to access the 5 ton mail vault reserved area that remains inside the hull and does not get lowered with the rest of the cargo bay to the surface for access. While the cargo bay is enclosed in the hull, the cargo ramp running along one side is used for crew access to both the cargo bay (proper) and mail vault, but also the ventral hatch airlock. The far side of the cargo bay away from the access ramp contains the collapsible fuel tank assembly.

Surrounding the square cargo bay would be some of the engineering spaces and fuel as a part of the engineering "mid-deck" halfway between the cargo deck below and the crew deck above for the 2 decks, giving the ship a flatter/wider rounded saucer aspect to it.

The layout of the engineering "mid-deck" outboard of the cargo bay all the way around would be done in an eqilateral hexagonal arrangement with M-Drive plates and HEPlaR elements ringing the perimeter of the circular hull. Fuel scoops would be placed in between the 6 maneuver drive elements with power plant, fuel purification and fuel tankage inboard from the maneuver drive.

The crew deck over the cargo bay is also done in an equilateral hexagon arrangement, with the central hub providing access up to the turret mounted dorsally above the hull in the center. The bridge, computer, avionics, ship's locker, dorsal iris airlock and (of course) crew quarters. Surrounding these crew spaces would be a circular ring of engineering space housing the jump bubble projectors mounted on the dorsal surface connecting to the engineering spaces in the engineering "mid-deck" outboard of the crew and cargo spaces halfway between the two decks. The idea being that when maneuvering the ship flies "edge on" through space in a "lateral" fashion, but when jumping it does so by aiming the ventral nadir of the ship at the destination and the jump ring "on top" in effect "pushes" the ship into jump space (so 90º pitch up and "belly flop" to jump).

Any remaining space for all decks is taken up by fuel.

Because of this arrangement, any external cargo that is being towed either through normal space or through jump space will typically be "lashed to the hull" near the edge of the saucer on the dorsal side first between the maneuver drive and jump drive exterior features. If there is more external cargo to be towed than can be safely accommodated on the dorsal side of the ship, additional lashing points can be used on the ventral side. Obviously, external cargo loading will tend to affect the streamlining of the craft (dorsal loads can be somewhat shielded from atmospheric entry, while ventral loads cannot) and in circumstances where streamlining needs to be maintained to "land" such external cargo, the standard procedure would be to "park" the excess external cargo in orbit and run relays to the surface through atmosphere using the internal cargo bay until all of the external cargo has been transferred from orbit to the surface.



That was the basic idea for all of the sub-200 ton "Courier" ship designs. The main variation between all the various designs is in the amount of engineering space devoted to cargo+fuel vs maneuver drive+power plant.
 
I'm a Mac user ... with a (by now) old 2011 iMac (that was top of the line new when I bought it).
I'm just waiting for the M2 Apple Silicon Mac Mini to arrive before swapping out.

The Rift Courier?
The Rift Courier would be a 2 deck high "flying saucer" type of design, albeit with a mid-deck halfway between the 2 decks around the perimeter of the craft...
Pretty comprehensive. Am taking a look.
 
I think I've got it, except the M-Drive hexagon is flat and not encroaching the cargo bay, it should be vertical?

Also I don't know why I drew the hull as an eye-shape and not a circle. Just a sketch before I take it into Photoshop.
 

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I think I've got it, except the M-Drive hexagon is flat and not encroaching the cargo bay, it should be vertical?
M-Drive is horizontal (360º).
J-Drive is vertical (above).

If it helps, think of the aft section of the Millennium Falcon and doing that all around the edge of the saucer as 6 discrete maneuver drive unit modules for a slim "line" of omni-directional thrust around the perimeter of the circular saucer.

CXjOw6p.jpg


Just a sketch before I take it into Photoshop.
A little bit of doodling on your sketch.

ncR9jj3.jpg


The maneuver drive is essentially "radial" in the horizontal direction on all sides.

The M-Drive plates are reactionless "push/pull" thrusters creating a thrust differential, so it's not like reaction thrust. The M-Drive plates forward "pull" the ship forward while the aft M-Drive plates "push" the ship forward while the lateral M-Drive plates provide control stability. That way the ship can accelerate in any direction in the horizontal plane with equal ease/efficiency, so "forward/aft" can become relative to the direction of travel desired in 3D space.

In between the M-Drive plates will be auxiliary backup HEPlaR reaction thrusters for rocket propulsion in locations where the M-Drive plates are not efficient (usually the dividing line is 1000 diameters to a gravity well). HEPlaR reaction thrusters consume additional fuel, while reactionless M-Drive plates do not require any additional fuel beyond (ordinary) power plant consumption since M-Drive plates are EP only drives.

Keep in mind that the Rift Courier is a pretty small (and tight) starship, and the engineering spaces are no different.
  • Jump-3 (7.92 tons, MCr 31.68, Capacitor storage: 106.92 EP maximum)
  • Maneuver-2 (9.9 tons, MCr 6.93, Agility: 2 requires 3.96 EP)
  • Power Plant-3 (11.88 tons, MCr 35.64, EP: 5.94)
That's a grand total of 29.7 tons allocated to drives, which is not a huge amount.
Start dividing that up into "repeating modules" of a 6 sided hexagon and you start getting:
  • 1.32 tons Jump drive per 60º
  • 1.65 tons Maneuver drive per 60º
  • 1.98 tons Power Plant drive per 60º
  • = 4.95 tons per 60º = about ten 1.5mx1.5m deck plan squares per 60º
That's "not a whole lot" all things considered, when you're looking at something akin to a 2x5 deck squares room repeated 6 times every 60º around the engineering half deck.
 
Amazing thank you, makes sense. Presume you mistook my jump nozzles for hatches, am assuming the "X" is a delete.
Thank you so much, am going to attempt this.
 
Amazing thank you, makes sense.
We make every pretense of competency around here. 😅
Presume you mistook my jump nozzles for hatches, am assuming the "X" is a delete.
Pretty much.
You want to think of the "jump ring" on the dorsal hull as having an appearance more like the Galaxy Class phaser arrays seen in Star Trek: TNG ... basically a visible "ring feature" on the outside of the hull that is simply a ring of emitters in a circle that is used to "blow the jump bubble" around the ship when it "belly flops 'down' into jumpspace" rather than sliding in edge on.

8SZ1Y6x.jpg


For an oblate spheroid "jump bubble" shape (or even a perfectly spherical one), the placement of the jump drive field emitters on the dorsal surface of the hull means that those emitters are better protected during atmospheric entry (also a "belly flop" maneuver for maximum aerobraking using the ventral hull surface) and that there is more "vertical clearance" for external cargo on the outside of the dorsal hull if the displacement of the bubble needs to be increased, as opposed to the ventral side of the hull where the tolerances are "tighter" due to the offset location of the jump emitters on the dorsal hull surface.
 
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