Jump effects?

[The Thing]

Ok, someone recently suggested here in the "terrorism in traveller" thread that activating the jump drive in starport might have disastrous effects on the ship and surrounding port.

Could someone detail the effects of, say, turning on a jump drive while sitting in a starport on the ground or in orbit?

Likewise, what effect would go with a jump? Would there be a brief lightshow a'la NBSG's jump? Would the ship just fade out, like the did in the dune movie or would there be something else? Would there be a 'flash" that would light up sensors all over the area or is there just a new blip on radar and a new IR source there that wasn't a second ago?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I think it would not tend to be catastrophic (see far-trader's reasoning) - at least for the port.

The "jump flash" thing has been debated around here recently, IIRC. I've come to the conclusion that (IMTU) there is a jump flash; it's brief (like a camera flash); it's light-speed propogation; and it tells nothing about jump "vector".

 

[Straybow]

Perhaps turning on the jump drive while sitting on the surface will burn out some components as the jump tries to take the planet along for the ride...

 

[Rover]

Perhaps turning on the jump drive while sitting on the surface will burn out some components as the jump tries to take the planet along for the ride...

I really like that idea.

But what if that doesn't happen and considering a jump drive uses up tons of hydrogen at the time of jump, all that energy has to go somewhere? That is a scary proposition.

I think J drives would have some kind of governor or limiter to prevent activating in a gravity well. To me it would be basic safty equipment. Of course any such system could be defeted on purpose by a skilled technicien.

My inturpretation is would be that a ship and at most anything in small sphere encapsulting the ship would be throw into J space and be destroyed and lost forever. Kind of a reverse of how the Terminators appear in the movies.

Of course this is pretty much a discussion about how many angels can danse on the head of a pin, but fun.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Even if most of the fuel is just coolant, jumps use a *huge* amount of energy - you're ripping a hole in the universe! You don't want to be nearby when it happens.

It would be almost impossible to bypass the safety locks and jump while landed...but not quite...

 

[far-trader]

Even if most of the fuel is just coolant, jumps use a *huge* amount of energy...

And it all goes into that hole you rip in the universe The energy, the fuel as coolant, the ship. As for taking the ground with you, well if the jump effect is contained to the immediate volume of the ship (remember, it is all based on the ship volume, no one says anything about including nearby volume), the the ground is safe too, your landing gear is going to keep you from being too close most of the time.

That's the safe way at least, and as noted there's enough to fret over in the game without inventing more ways for PC's and NPC's to do massive damage to the referee's carefully prepared setting :file_22:

 

[Gadrin]

I think J drives would have some kind of governor or limiter to prevent activating in a gravity well. To me it would be basic safty equipment. Of course any such system could be defeted on purpose by a skilled technicien.

that's what I go with. I feel with the mastery over gravity in the setting that the drive would have sensors (and ignores the artificial gravity of the ship) such that it can detect a gravity well and exit the jump before catastrophic damage occurs. of course this "threshold setting" can vary, and could be used to sabotage or otherwise throw off a ship attempting to jump or in jump. So as part of the trip, the engineer will look at the destination planet (or star if it's masked) and figure out where to set the detection threshold and what it should be.

this also prevents the "oops, I pushed the jump button while in the landing pad" type of mistake.

 

[aramis]

I think it would not tend to be catastrophic (see far-trader's reasoning) - at least for the port.

The "jump flash" thing has been debated around here recently, IIRC. I've come to the conclusion that (IMTU) there is a jump flash; it's brief (like a camera flash); it's light-speed propogation; and it tells nothing about jump "vector".

TNE says you can get a fix on destination reading the jump flash, or even blindly follow it... IIRC, Regency Sourcebook, Ref's Lib. Data.

 

[Icosahedron]

If you really WANT the possibility of limited Starport damage, I might suggest 'drawing in' a tonnage equal to the ship, or by using LBB5, you can calculate the largest tonnage that the drives could carry, and take that much with you. Of course, this will almost certainly result in destruction of the ship. (By 'almost certain', I don't mean the players get a roll, I mean the GM decides if he wants it to happen!)

 

[Valarian]

(remember, it is all based on the ship volume, no one says anything about including nearby volume), the the ground is safe too, your landing gear is going to keep you from being too close most of the time.

I can just picture some smoking landing pads left on the ground as the ship disappears with a boom of inrushing air. :file_21:

 

[Vargas]

What happens when a ship tries to Jump within 100 diameters of a mass? It misJumps. If it's sitting on a planetary surface I say it misJumps, most likely to be destroyed in the process. I don't think any significant happens to the area around the ship.

 

[atpollard]

What happens when a ship tries to Jump within 100 diameters of a mass? It misJumps. If it's sitting on a planetary surface I say it misJumps, most likely to be destroyed in the process. I don't think any significant happens to the area around the ship.

Even a humble scout ship with just enough fuel for a single Jump 2 will have more than 280 cubic meters of liquid hydrogen in tanks when is was "destroyed". Even if Godzilla steped on it to destroy it (taking the plasma and fusion reactor out of the picture) that's a big ball of hydrogen gas being released to react with atmospheric oxygen.

On a starport, there may be additional fuel stored nearby.

It may not be a planet cracker, but I would not want to be parked on the adjacent landing pad.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Sounds like a new tactic for the Ine Givar.

 

[Rover]

Even a humble scout ship with just enough fuel for a single Jump 2 will have more than 280 cubic meters of liquid hydrogen in tanks when is was "destroyed". Even if Godzilla steped on it to destroy it (taking the plasma and fusion reactor out of the picture) that's a big ball of hydrogen gas being released to react with atmospheric oxygen.

On a starport, there may be additional fuel stored nearby.

It may not be a planet cracker, but I would not want to be parked on the adjacent landing pad.

That would depend on what side of the jump threshold the ship was destroyed on. If it crossed the threshold and was then destroyed there would be very little damage on the planetary side.

Even if 280 cubic meters of liquid hydrogen were to catch it might not be as devistating as you think. While it would cause some damage it would need a ready suppy of an oxidizer to combust. Atmospheric oxegen would cause a raging fire it my not be a rich enough source to cause an explosion. The Challenger disaster had a ready supply of liquid oxegen in the tank along with the hydrogen. The solid rocket boosters were still relativly intact even though they were strapped to the fule tank when it exploded.

 

[far-trader]

Sounds like a new tactic for the Ine Givar.

Which is that? Having Godzilla stomp on ships?


:smirk:

 

[Spinward Scout]

Which is that? Having Godzilla stomp on ships?

Hmmm, I wonder if using Space Monsters as terrorist tactics has ever been tried.

(Actually, I was thinking about terrorists deliberately setting a ship's Jump Drive to what basically amounts to 'overload' in the middle of a Starport.)

 

[far-trader]

(Actually, I was thinking about terrorists deliberately setting a ship's Jump Drive to what basically amounts to 'overload' in the middle of a Starport.)

Obviously But I have a vague recollection of The Rachelle (?) (society? revolts?) involving such an act, from some old JTAS news bit iirc. So it's not so new to me...

Hmmm, I wonder if using Space Monsters as terrorist tactics has ever been tried.

...where this would be a new tactic Discounting perhaps some Japanese monster movies where the bad guys purposefully awakened the things to cause destruction.

Of course believing in Space Mosters is silly (thump) there's no such thing (Thump) as giant radioactive lizards (THUMP)...

"RUN! IT'S GOJIRA!"

 

[pendragonman]

I can just picture some smoking landing pads left on the ground as the ship disappears with a boom of inrushing air. :file_21:

And the slightly singed customs inspector crew that were rushing to put the ship in impound.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Obviously But I have a vague recollection of The Rachelle (?) (society? revolts?) involving such an act, from some old JTAS news bit iirc. So it's not so new to me...

Interesting. Wouldn't it be easier just to overload the Power Plant, tho? Or would there be an advantage to this?

 

[Andrew Boulton]

AIUI it's hard to make a fusion plant go boom.