Kuzu's location

[rancke]

Thomas has just posted the following information in Kuzu/meta on the Twiki:

"According to the Category:T5 Second Survey update, Kuzu has been offically placed at hex 1919, per the Atlas of the Imperium, invalidating all other sources. "

Don and Rob, please look at this summation about all other sources[*] and consider bringing it to Marc's attention. IMO it constitutes a compelling argument for "moving" Kuzu from 1919 to 1226.

[*] Written by me back in 2007.​

The exact location of Kuzu, the Aslan homeworld, has been subject to a lot of confusion over the years. The earliest references (in Twilight's Peak and Library Data (A-M)) puts it at hex 0406 of Kilane subsector, and TP also mentions that it lies 135 parsecs from Capital.

Atlas of the Imperium, has Kuzu at 1919 in the Dark Nebula sector.

Alien Module 1 provides two different locations, both at odds with the original information. The text (p. 35) says that it is in hex 0305 (not 0406) of Kilrai' subsector, which is subsector G of Dark Nebula, and that 'Kilane' is the Imperial word for "Kilrai'". The map (inside back page) shows Kusyu in Subsector J not G. Furthermore, both these positions are about 125 parsecs from Capital, not 135.

The maps in the Alien modules are notoriously inexact, but seldomly to the tune of an entire subsector. Also, it is my opinion, based on the canonical history of the Aslans, that Kuzu cannot be located right on the border. Close to it, yes -- the position on the aforementioned map looks just about right -- but not just a few parsecs from it.

Digest Group Publications increased the confusion when it published the Kilrai' subsector and a map of trade routes of the Dark Nebula Sector in TD17. Here Kuzu is located in hex 1919 of Dark Nebula (0309 Kilrai'), right on the border with two neutral worlds one parsec away! It also placed the two previous locations in the neutral zone between the Hierate and the Imperium, since the border that on the AM1 map ran along the top of subsectors F and G now ran along the bottom (It also moved the pocket empire that had been shown in subsectors B and C down into subsector F). And to top it off, Kilrai' 0406 (Dark Nebula 2016) didn't even have a star in it!

Referee's Companion gave the location as, and I quote: "Kusyu/Kilrai' (I'aheako 0309)", but that's presumably a misprint, since that would make Kilrai' into Subsector A of the sector.

GURPS Traveller: Alien Races 2 decided to place Kuzu in 1226 Dark Nebula (Although unfortunately there was a misprint so that the text says 1225 instead of 1226). 1226 is in hex 0406 of its subsector, it is on the trade routes, it is close to, but not directly on, the Hierate border, and it is roughly 135 parsecs from Capital (137, if my count is accurate).​

Hans

 

[Vladika]

Kudzu

Hans

We have this thing called "Kudzu" in the prat of the USA where I'm from. It's all over the place too......

 

[aramis]

I thought the Aslan homeworld was Kusyu, Dark Nebula 1919... which is what every source I've seen has for it.

 

[rancke]

I thought the Aslan homeworld was Kusyu, Dark Nebula 1919... which is what every source I've seen has for it.

Unless you've never seen Twilight's Peak, Library Data (A-M), Alien Module 1, or Referee's Companion, that's manifestly not true.

Also, my main argument against 1919 as the location for Kuzu is not what other canonical sources has to say about it, but the Hireate border running right next to 1919. There are two non-aligned worlds lying right next to 1919. Given the canonical history of the Aslan (they were allowed to expand in peace for a while because the nearest interstellar civilization was a good way off (the Whatsitsname was a scout vessel)) and what we have been told about their relentless landgrabbing nature, do you really feel that two non-grabbed worlds right next to Kuzu is plausible, no matter how crappy they may be?


Hans

 

[inexorabletash]

Kuzu/Kusyu =~ Peking/Beijing

 

[inexorabletash]

Also, I brought this issue to Don's attention recently. I don't know if Marc is ready to tackle non-Imperial sectors yet. Give the man a vacation first, I say.

 

[inexorabletash]

Also, there was some confusion in the communication with Thomas about what sectors were covered by the T5 Second Survey on the traveller map site. The site obviously includes unrevised and/or totally unofficial ("fan") data. This distinction was not made clear.

I've followed up with Thomas but he may not have incorporated that feedback yet.

 

[DonM]

Dark Nebula has not yet been done for Second Survey.

When I discussed T5SS for the wiki, the sectors we listed were all sectors with at least two Imperial worlds, plus Ziafrplians and Gvurrdon.

I'm looking at Dark Nebula, and there are no Imperial worlds in the sector that I can find.

 

[Sir Brad]

not at the time of the 2nd Survey's publishing, but Dark Nebular could have bean surveyed prior to the Solomani Rim War (990-1002) when the Solomani Sphere was part of the 3I.

 

[HiverLord]

Also, my main argument against 1919 as the location for Kuzu is not what other canonical sources has to say about it, but the Hireate border running right next to 1919.
Hans

Not sure of the location myself, but I recall reading a comment/history years ago (don't remember the source; too far back in time for me) which stated that when the Aslan developed the jump drive, they ran almost immediately into human-occupied planets/territory, which forced them to expand in the opposite direction.
Not sure if this was a canon source, but this discussion triggered this data out of my old memory banks... and as far as I've ever read, the Aslan homeworld is Kusyu (though I MAY have the spelling incorrect).

 

[BlackBat242]

My personal take on this is simple.

Kusyu (1919) IS the Aslan home-world, but unless you are an Aslan you will never be granted the freedom of movement and research there to prove it.

The reason for the other candidates is simple... the Aslan, once they truly understood how "lacking in honor" humans were, realized that humans might attack (either to destroy or take control of) "the Aslan home-world" in an attempt to disrupt the Aslan culture and sense of unity.

They decided that they had to "think like a human" and "lay a false trail"... they needed set up decoys - fake home-worlds*. Not to fully convince the humans, but simply to introduce uncertainty.

Therefore there are references in Aslan documents, news-blogs, etc referring to one of the decoys as being "the ancient home of the Hireate", and so on. Diplomats from the Imperium are taken to one false Kuzu, while those from the Solomani are shown another, while commercial interests or human allies are met on a third.

 

[rancke]

Not sure of the location myself, but I recall reading a comment/history years ago (don't remember the source; too far back in time for me) which stated that when the Aslan developed the jump drive, they ran almost immediately into human-occupied planets/territory, which forced them to expand in the opposite direction.

No, the Aslans were able to expand in peace for a while because there were no worlds with interstellar technology in the immediate neighborhood. The human pocket empires were fairly close (couple of subsectors), but not right next door.

Not sure if this was a canon source, but this discussion triggered this data out of my old memory banks... and as far as I've ever read, the Aslan homeworld is Kusyu (though I MAY have the spelling incorrect).

Kuzu is the Galanglic spelling, Kusyu is the Trokh spelling. I usually write from the Imperial point of view since my viewpoint tends to be Imperial library data.


Hans

 

[HiverLord]

No, the Aslans were able to expand in peace for a while because there were no worlds with interstellar technology in the immediate neighborhood. The human pocket empires were fairly close (couple of subsectors), but not right next door.

I probably knew this at one point... thanks for the reminder.

Kuzu is the Galanglic spelling, Kusyu is the Trokh spelling. I usually write from the Imperial point of view since my viewpoint tends to be Imperial library data.

I didn't know/realize there was another spelling (should probably have). Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[tjoneslo]

Also, there was some confusion in the communication with Thomas about what sectors were covered by the T5 Second Survey on the traveller map site. The site obviously includes unrevised and/or totally unofficial ("fan") data. This distinction was not made clear.

The sector data (and the map) in the Traveller Map site has Kuzu still at Dark Nebula 1919. It is, as far as I can tell from the source information, still using the older DGP data taken from sunbane. But I don't believe anyone ever published a full set of sector data with the location updated.

Based upon the updates to the sectors for the T5 Second Survey I'm trying to keep the Traveller Map data and the Wiki data in synch. The first part of that is to use the data files generated by Traveller map as the Wiki's sector data. This will allow easy diffs for later changes. There is also an ongoing project to review the ~1600 world articles to update them to the new canon.

I think there also needs to be a way to push some of the known canon (as resolved in the Wiki) back into the Traveller Map.

 

[DonM]

I think there also needs to be a way to push some of the known canon (as resolved in the Wiki) back into the Traveller Map.

Send what you have to don.mckinney@gmail.com for review and queuing, and please remember copyright issues, since T5SS is the official source for authors and licensees.