Langlutjens class space fortress

[mbrinkhues]

Since the beast disappeared a bit into the "Defence of Suffren" discussion here the space fortress as a seperate topic

Having just received and digested a book on pre 1918 german costal defences I simply had to design this one GTL 10/TTL 12 space fortress:


8,000-ton Langluetjens-class Space Fortress (TL10)

A small space fortress/fighter sortie base transportable by battle rider or large jump-frighter, the Langenlutjens class space fortress features heavy stealthing, total compartmentalisation, double system layout, a turret-safe armor, heavy meson screens and an armament of five long range particle accelerator bays aided by laser and sandcaster batteries. All weapons are build as pop up systems to benefit the most from the hulls heavy armor.

While the fortress itself is a powerful defence system, it also houses three squadrons of light fighters (36 total), 6 standard SDB and 6 Assault/Landing craft for the stations marine complement. These allow the base to attack the enemy before those come into range to fire at the base.

Since the stations crew are normally rotated out once every 90 days, the crew accomodations are rather spacious with individual cabins for the crew members and large recreational areas for all aboard.

Physically the station is build as a rounded block, some 180meters long, 60 meters wide and 40 meters thick.The main guns are placed on one of the large surfaces while the smaller sides contain the hangar bay doors. The crew and engineering systems are wedged in between the gun and small craft decks using them as additional shielding against enemy fire.

Crew: 400 Total. 22 Command and Control, 9 Maneuver Drive, 4 Meson Screen Operators, 8 Nuclear Damper Operators, 5 Weapon Bay Gunners, 20 Turret Gunners, 28 Maintenance, 160 Marines</P>
Design: 8,000-ton USL Hull, Heavy Frame, DR 25,000, Psi-Shielded, Instant Chameleon, Radical Stealth, Radical Emission Cloaking, 5 Lg External Bay (PUp) (DR 2,000) with one 29 Gj Lg PAW Bay, 10 Pop Turret (DR 2,000) with three 250 Mj Std Laser, 10 Pop Turret (DR 2,000) with three Sand Caster [200], 10 Pop Turret (DR 2,000) with one 810 Mj Hv Laser.

Modules: 2 Command Cockpit (Hardened), 4 PESA-UHv, 2 Traffic Control, 2 Advanced Sensors, 2 EW (Hardened), 2 Adv Commo Suite, 2 Engineering, 51 Fusion Power Slice, 500 Meson Screen (DR 26,471), 2 Nuclear Damper (15 mi), 2 Nuclear Damper (15 mi), 626 Maneuver Drive (25,040 stons thrust), 15 Utility, 400 Stateroom, 10 Military Sickbay, 8 Gymnasium, 4 Logistics, 3 Hall/Bar/Conference Room, 50 Escape Capsule, 4 Normal Office, Stage, Theater, 3 Military Holoventure, 5 Brig, 20 Shooting Range, 6 Galley, 10 Brig/Armory/Safe, 7 Complete Workshop, 9 Troop Armory, 2 Zero G Handball Court, 240 Spacedock (12x10-ton Iramda Fighter), 360 Spacedock (6x30-ton Bucaneer-class Assault Landing Craft[30dt Assault Shuttle]), 240 Spacedock (12x10-ton Iramda Fighter), 240 Spacedock (12x10-ton Iramda Fighter), 1,600 Spacedock (2xTL10 SDB), 1,600 Spacedock (2xTL10 SDB), 1,600 Spacedock (2xTL10 SDB), 870 Hold.</P>
Statistics: EMass 245,823.72 stons, LMass 250,173.72 stons, Cost MCr15,168.54, HP: 510,000 (DT 25,500), Size Modifier: +12, HT 10, Maint. 0.2 Hrs (591.2 man-hrs./day).</P>

Performance: sAccel 0.10 G / 0.10 G (empty tanks), Air Speed 0 mph, Dodge -2 + 1/2 Pilot Skill (-4 vs Meson Fire).</P>


Printed with GMV Version 2.32.01 on 27.12.2006 12:44:30<BR>
Copyright © 2006 by Michael Brinkhues


Actually I see either one or three of those defending a central planet from a geo-stationary orbit and maybe a few more scattered through the asteroid belt used as a combination fighter base and combat platform. Their 0.1g maneuver drive allows them to change orbits often enough to prevent fractional-c attacks from the outer system. In peacetime the stations also act as traffic control center and sends out patrol craft to board and search suspect ships

As for possible scenarios:

+ Have one of those survive into the TNE era and block the access to an important graveyard world. Or wake up after a contact team has landed on-world and force the players to shut it down

+ The station can be build locally as low as TTL9. On the other hand higher TL ones can be equipped with Meson weapons instead of Particle beams. In the Hard Times or TNE era the players might be send out to salvage those advanced guns for a local station. And stumble upon a security mechanism

+ This stations have ample space for laboratories either in the cargo hold or replacing some of the small craft. Maybe one is used for a research station and one of the experiments went totally wrong. The players are send in to investigate by their government

+ The SDB's can easily be replaced by jump-capabel ships like the Typ-T. This might happen in stations near the border where this crafts are used for recon in the nearby systems. Make the players part of the stations crew and dig out those old DS-9 scenarios. Add a nearby high-port for additional fun

+ Unless destroyed those stations will last a very long time. And as time advances, technologies advance and the old spare-parts are no longer produced, the technologie becomes jury-rigged and prone to failures. As an added difficulty you may make the stations computer an early AI that has some quirks of it's own, starting form the simple (Think B5's AI) to the dangerous (HAL)

+ Use the station as a McGuffin. The players are a diplomatic mission to persuade an client-state system to allow such a station to be established in-system. Or even worse an unaligned system with both pro- and anti-imperial factions present

+ If one uses the SolRim war as a background, the mission might be to eleminate one such station before the assault troops appear. For an alternate the Sollies must disable an imperial station to escape. Guns of Navaronne anyone?

 

[atpollard]

Isn't the classic problem with all fixed defenses that the enemy can just go around them?

 

[atpollard]

But I liked the Idea.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Originally posted by atpollard:
Isn't the classic problem with all fixed defenses that the enemy can just go around them?

Depends on the terrain and on the fortress concept you use. Put three-five of these around a planet (three stationary, two over the poles) and they can cover the whole hemisphere forcing the enemy to neutralise them.

But I agree, having a fortress stand alone makes it easily bypassed of surrounded. A fortress must be part of an overall concept. They can act as a fixed sortie point and base for your own forces in occupied territory (I.e the english fortress towns in Wales like Carnavon, Conwy, Beaumarais, Harlech, WWII german Stützpunkts in the east or Vietnam-era Firebases) or they act as the backstop for your own mobile forces (like the planned usage for the Maginot-Line(1) or costal Forts like Fort Sumpter)

These fortress type is a mix between those two with a solid mobile component (6 SDB, 36 fighters, included in the price btw) yet they can kill most lighter crafts due to their massiv armor and decend armament. Their main use is defence against raiders and enemy spoiling attacks (Think of WWI Emden) thus freeing your own units for operations.

(1) The french overreacted to the german break-throughs shifting those rear-area forces away and around. Otherwise the thrust through the Ardennes could have been stopped.

 

[atpollard]

It might actually function more like a medieval castle - a secure base of operations from which to project power across a region. Have you thought about a hollowed out planetoid as a source of cheap armor?

 

[mbrinkhues]

Originally posted by atpollard:
It might actually function more like a medieval castle - a secure base of operations from which to project power across a region. Have you thought about a hollowed out planetoid as a source of cheap armor?

The beasts are build as a Traveller version of a real world costal battery (Langlütjens I, Langlütjens II and Brinkamahof, all near Bremen/Bremerhafen) and those are erected on artificial islands similar to some of the british costal fords of Henry VIII. So for them an asteroid would not be "the right thing"

Otherwise sure, an asteroid would make a lot of sense.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Actually, Michael, an asteroid would be a perfect "artificial island". Of course, I like it as is. Which version did you use to build this, GURPS?

 

[mbrinkhues]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Actually, Michael, an asteroid would be a perfect "artificial island". Of course, I like it as is. Which version did you use to build this, GURPS?

Yes, they are GURPS builds since I use that game system (but the T20 or HT backgrounds).

Sadly I can not find an english language article on LL-2 (the base concept). Quite interesting design (LL-1 is build on a sandbank, LL-2 is totally artificial)

 

[Liam Devlin]

Michael:

Another use for this station--to add to another power's ability to interdict a planet or system.

I can see 3-6 (three to six) being utilized based on the supporting planet's size alone. At the two poles, and the rest placed far enough apart to reinforce any other one along equatorial lines. For a TU, I'd tend towards a main world, & go with the larger number of course there. Naval Base Outposts, within a well settled system might have just the poles and one at the equator.

Planetoid hulls are cheaper, but some consider having the resources for the same--the minimum of an asteroid belt present for such craft. Lack of such a resource requires carving out chunk of a moon, and moving it to orbit.

"Fixed" is a relative term, atpollard. although I own no GURPS material, i denote MB's design does have station keeping at least if not some power to 'Move'. Also, such outposts can no doubt be moved by a/ or several space going tug vessel(s) to where the system Navy wanted them positioned.

Where this station fits into the concept known as COACC , Close Orbital and Aerospace Command & Control: The orbital level.

COACC has three types of craft to meet its orbital responsibilities.(from MT-COACC, page 83)

"Fighters: Depending on tech level, these range from rocketpowered, missile-firing, low-endurance orbital fighters to Imperial Navy-pattern Ramparts-class fighters and Magnumclass
heavy fighters The latter are high-endurance, tweperson craft fitted for long patrols and capable of remaining on station for up to 30 days Fighters may be surface based or based at orbital COACC bases in geosynchronous orbit. These fighters may also provide air support to local ground forces if an invading force reaches the surface.

Orbital Battle Stations: These are cheap, unmanned, massproduced guardian satellites placed in low orbit around their homeworld They are equipped with a fire control computer
and an active sensor array, and are armed with a 100-ton missile bay. Orbital battle stations will automatically engage any hostile spacecraft with nuclear-tipped missiles out to Far Orbit range (500,000 kilometers). For safety considerations, these satellites are not deployed until hostilities appear to be imminent.

System Defense Boats: These heavily armed and armored gunboats are assigned to patrol Close Orbit space, conduct customs inspections, and perform rescue missions during
peacetime COACC SDBs assist naval forces during wartime and are responsible for defending Close Orbit space and the planet’s surface. SDBs may be based in orbit, or at dispersed ground bases, or hidden beneath the planet’s oceans or icecaps (if any) until ordered to strike at the enemy. Several models are available, ranging from 200 to 1000 tons displacement. They are primarily armed with nuclear-tipped missiles, with beam lasers as their secondary weapon. In addition to their antiship duties, SDBs attack enemy ground forces that have landed on their homeworld. If the invasion succeeds, the COACC SDBs disperse to hidden bases in the outer system to refuel, rearm, and fight again, harassing the enemy until
friendly reinforcements arrive."

Obviously in the age of Virus, manned stations such as these (planetoid hulled or not) replace the dangers of the previous Imperial era automated ones for those worlds defending against hostile forces.

Michael, this station meets the requisite for TL9+ worlds needs in a COACC, and with space going technology still at hand, projects the defender's power further out into space.

For those of you new to this forum, we were discussing a model system assault and possible defence of a stellar high population system at TL-12 in another thread.

The debate has moved back and forth what to defend, where to defend, and with what. Another factor not discussed much of course, is how these outposts and layered defence play out with the planetary body rotation within the system.

To illsutrate this better, allow me to share this link of Planet A (Sufren/sufren/Diaspora)...

http://www.utzig.com/cgi-bin/iai/system_detail.pl?Sysinfo=Sufren%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%202004%20B686973-F%20%20N%20Hi%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20623%20Im%20M1 %20V%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&UID=&Sectors=Diaspora

scroll down and plug in the date: January, 007, 1211.

Now plot start point (orbit) 7, destination point (orbit) 2.

Now look where all your outposts maybe at, besides those of the mainworld. See the problem?

In the discussions that followed with others, and considering moving a "fleet" sized element in over an 84 hour window, and adding travel time for refueling orbit 7's far gas giant at 6G comes out at just under 6 days (5.95days in hours). Hope this clears things up where that was concerned.

Oh, and if you haven't bookmarked it, the home page for this site is this:
http://www.utzig.com/traveller/iai.shtml

 

[Liam Devlin]

Another place I can see this in use is the Sworld Worlds, Michael come to think of it. such a TL-10 station is easily within their capability to produce.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Liam:

+ Totally agree with the SwordWorlds or any other TL9+ state building these beasts

+ The base would integrate with COAAC and it's SDB force acting as a sortie base

+ GURPS has fractional thrust so the 0.1g would allow the station to move even between planets given enough time

+ I have been tinkering with the design. In GURPS the beast could skim fuel from a gas giant (being a closed structure or better) if I add enough grav modules to compensate the weight (reducing cargo by 50dtons). By that same mechanism one could hide the station in the upper layers of a gas giant

 

[mbrinkhues]

Side note: Don't take the copyright to serious. Use, modifie, abuse however you please.

 

[Whipsnade]

Michael,

This design is a keeper and hiding one in a gas giant is a delightfully nasty idea!

Thanks for sharing it!


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Chaos]

Of course, if it was a planetoid hull, it could hide in an asteroid belt...

Come to think of it, a planetoid hull version would be THE ideal defense system for an asteroid belt "mainworld".

Either way, I like the design.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Michael, don't diminish the copyright stuff - makes people give you credit. And you deserve it!

Chaos - spot on.

 

[Whipsnade]

Chaos,

Knowing what we know about planetoids now, I'd soft pedal the planetoid hull idea. Sadly, planetoids aren't the huge hunks of granite(1) we thought they were back in the 1970s. Planetoids more accurately resemble a closely packed cloud of flying gravel and planetoid densities are low than that of styrofoam.

If I were running a campaign or HG2 game now, I'd severely limit the availability and greatly inflate the costs of planetoid hulls. You could probably smelt or sinter an actual planetoid down to the tough, dense chunk of rock we all love, but the cost in time and money would be high.


Have fun,
Bill

1 - Unless they're planetoids Yaskodray made with his nifty Complete Planet Urban Renewel weapons!

 

[RandyT0001]

Bill, you're right, most planetoids are not huge rocks of granite but low density conglometetes of gravel and rock. But about (IIRC) 30% of the astroids in 'our' belt and of NEO's are huge chuncks of solid nickel/iron. It is from this type of asteroids that planetoid and buffered planetoid hulls are made. IMO

EDIT: Quick wiki check puts metallic asteroids at 8%.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Randy Tyler:
EDIT: Quick wiki check puts metallic asteroids at 8%.

Randy,

That matches the number I found too.

I did a little research earlier this year with an eye towards writing up a document on planetoid mining. Those low density, undifferentiated, gravel piles aren't going to hold veins of ore after all so our canonical description of belt mining goes right out the airlock.

As is my want, I went looking for loopholes and I think I found one. All I need do is put my notes together, something I never seem to do because I never know when to stop writing!

Anyway, given an 8 - 10% number of planetoids potentially suited for hulls, I feel that the HG2 costs for planetoids - a 1,000Cr per useable ton tunneling fee and a 100Cr per ton transport fee - are far too low.

I also think, but could very well be wrong, that 'sturdier' useful hulls can be 'smelted' or 'sintered' out of the usual gravel piles. At a greater price of course.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
Liam:

+ Totally agree with the SwordWorlds or any other TL9+ state building these beasts

+ The base would integrate with COAAC and it's SDB force acting as a sortie base

+ GURPS has fractional thrust so the 0.1g would allow the station to move even between planets given enough time

+ I have been tinkering with the design. In GURPS the beast could skim fuel from a gas giant (being a closed structure or better) if I add enough grav modules to compensate the weight (reducing cargo by 50dtons). By that same mechanism one could hide the station in the upper layers of a gas giant

.

The gas Giant lurking base has basis in Canon in the innocuous phrase "SDB's fire their ordinance then retreat to hidden bases in system,"

So I find no fault with the tweak of stashing one in the GG!

I will give the GT-shipbuilding this--they've an easier way to conjure up less than 1G engines for station keeping, and objects not necessarily needing full locomotion (satellites, long-range probes come to mind). something I might have to swipe, later...

yes, and not just because of TL capability on the Swordies. It's design suits their bellicose-Naval dogma, IMO. The name even has a Sword Worlder ring to it, come to think. Once again, well done!

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Anyway, given an 8 - 10% number of planetoids potentially suited for hulls, I feel that the HG2 costs for planetoids - a 1,000Cr per useable ton tunneling fee and a 100Cr per ton transport fee - are far too low.

I also think, but could very well be wrong, that 'sturdier' useful hulls can be 'smelted' or 'sintered' out of the usual gravel piles. At a greater price of course.

Why do you feel the CT prices are too low? Normal "ships" are made from "Crystal-iron" and "Super-dense", which sound to me like manmade compounds/molecules. A buffered planetiod is basicly a Wrought Iron hull (smelted gravel sounds similar to a cast iron hull).