leadership feat ?

[woodle]

t20 can use any d20 feat right?
leadership , how can this work?
My players claim under rule that once they have prior history lvl greater than 6th they can gain followers using leadership feat. Ever seen a pegasus on Terra?. Ive currently restricted our game to leader and recruiting skills.
i think a t20 table should be provided or it knocked off in the errata.

 

[Flynn]

If it's not in a T20 book, it is ultimately up to the Referee as to whether he or she wishes to allow it. Leadership is not in T20, so I don't allow my players to take it. It doesn't fit the genre, much like the Metamagic feats, Psionic feats, any feat granting supernatural abilities, etc.

However, the choice is yours. At the moment, I don't let any of my players take a feat that not in the THB, unless it has a definite sci-fi bent to it. After all, Leadership was available as a feat at the time T20 was written, and the authors made the choice not to include it for reasons of their own. I respect that, and so don't allow it in my T20 games.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[RandyT0001]

NO, the referee has the final word on what feats are allowed in his game. The leadership feat from AD&D3e doesn't fit in Traveller. Maybe a noble class PC could have it but (IMTU) they would have to have twice the normally required level to gain it, ie twelveth level. Irregardless they wouldn't get the special (non-human) followers. Don't let player 'rule-lawyers' dictate how you are going to run your game. Natural Born Leader is a good one also. Common sense and not some 'official errata of non-Traveller feats' should be your guide. Your restrictions of feats to leader and recruiting are a step in the right direction.

 

[far-trader]

Welcome aboard woodle. Already well answered but why should I let that stop me from adding my two copper pieces

Originally posted by woodle:
t20 can use any d20 feat right?

The GM's call like others have said, though certainly both GM and Players can find inspiration in other d20 works but not everything can be just copied in verbatim.

Originally posted by woodle:
leadership , how can this work?
My players claim under rule that once they have prior history lvl greater than 6th they can gain followers using leadership feat. Ever seen a pegasus on Terra?. Ive currently restricted our game to leader and recruiting skills.
i think a t20 table should be provided or it knocked off in the errata.

You've made the right call in my opinion. The leadership feat from D&D won't work as is for Traveller. Now if said PC wants to play a Barabarian on a very low tech world with no interstellar contact then sure I might let them gain the D&D leadership feat, oh wait, that IS D&D

Or if they insist then let them have it

, hmm that's odd the next random encounter is a flight of huge ancient red dragons ridden by demons, they seem angry

 

[smilinggm]

I agree that it is utlimalty up to your DM as to wheather or not the feat is going to be allowed in the campaing. But I disagree that the feat is not appropriapt for Traveller. I do think that the chart in the 3.0/3.5 is not apprapriate for traveller, but I would rewrite it for my campaing if the need comes up.
I have always seen the leadership feat as the D20 method of obtaining henchmen. In the previous editions of D&D at higher levels PC'c in most classes automatically aquired a group of followers and henchmen. And yes there was a chance that you would attract non-humans and non-humaniods to your PC. But for the most case they were of your same race and monstly the same class as you. I've even used these followers as the players next PC in a long run campaign where the PC's adventured and aged with time but the story was longer than most PC's natural life time.

I can see many uses for this feat in Travellere. Ships need crews and captains want loyal crews. So the PC's fill the improtant primary roles on the ship (assuming Ships over 400 tons) and the followers fill the lesser roles. Or the PC's are Merc's and all of the PC's take the Leadership feet. If you have 6 PC's each whith the Leadership feat you can endup with a small army at the PC's command. Then it is not up the the DM to stat out the ranks it is up to the Players. Or a group of Academics could take the leadership feat and now they have their lab assiatant and students to assist the PC's in thier research. As I said it is not the Feat that is broken for traveller but the table that you are looking at. Just rewrite the table to fit you campaign.

P.S.
Besides just look at all of the great Henchmen that TV, Movies and Litature have brought us.
Where would the Doctor be wihtout _____? (fill in you favorite Companion) Or Sherlock Holmes without Watson. The Skipper without Gilligan, Zap Branagan withoug Skip, Black Adder without Baldric.

 

[clementk]

There are four pages of previous discussion on the Leadership feat here .

To recap, IMO the fewer feats the better and I didn't even know about this feat (since it's originally in the 3.0 DMG tucked away) until it came up in CotI. I personally don't see the need to make this a feat. In general I'm not so keen on contact, ally, etc. "buys" in games in general. YMMV.

If it works for your group and you can make any changes you think are needed cool. As GM you should make the final call keeping in mind your group's style.

Casey

 

[Pagan priest]

It might need a little bit of modification, but overall, there is no problem with the Leadership feat appearing in Traveller. Possibly use SOC instead of CHA, or make it use either at will. Just remember that most of the folks that will show up are mooks, 1st level types with no prior history at anything. Only in a few special cases will there be anyone of quality recruted thusly.

Just remember to cross reference both Leader and Recruting skills to avoid a broken feat.

 

[aravain]

Thanks,Casey! That old thread should help him out!

 

[woodle]

thanks everyone.

PS: Far trader like the dragon/demon idea- no vacc suits just necklaces of adaption (dont know what 3.5D20 calls these....

 

[Pagan priest]

I finally finished reading that 4 page thread.

Misconceptions abound.

I still need to sit down and reconcile a Leadership feat with the Leader and Recruting skills, but at the moment, I am thinking that a modified version of the feat should be part of the bonus feats available for Merc and Noble characters. The mods needed are just tweaks to fit the diffeence between D&D (NPC classes much weaker than PC classes) and Traveller (everyone is part of a PC class).

My first thought would be to have cohorts represent folks you can gain that have one or more terms of prior history. Followers are 1st level newbies. In other words, for followers, you are their first term. Hmmm, that still needs a bit of work...

Many comments were made about T20 not being as Heroic as D&D... valid but not relavent. If we were talkling about bringing in an Epic level feat that lets you make a full attack routine as part of a charge, it would be vaild. Hey, guess what... in the real world some folks just have the ability to attract large numbers of people to their cause. If it can be done in the real world then it can have a part in Traveller.

Using the Leadership feat is a great way to model hiring a full crew for a starship, or recruting a merc company, or filling out a Noble House. It can also model forming a merchant company on a planet, or perhaps establishing an academy, complete with students and fellow teachers.

If it is being used as it should be (whether T20 or D&D) this feat is NOT about gaining cannon fodder... that is a good way to lose all the benefits of the feat. Loyal doesn't mean mindless zombie. You need to keep them loyal, or they are gone.

 

[Morte]

Misconceptions abound

Man, you can say that again. It was a pathetic thread.

I'd allow Leadership when appropriate to the character, story and setting -- same criteria as D&D, but probably met less often. But I'd either double the cost in levels or charge 2 feats for it. [In D&D it's balanced as written, because you get a cohort who's a couple of levels lower than your PC and they sap XP; but levels count for less in T20 than D&D.]

 

[far-trader]

I'd also add that the flavor of it for D&D is something to look forward to at the apex of the character's life since most games and character's begin at 1st level and must sweat a lot of dungeon crawls and wilderness treks before earning the reputation that attacts followers. Unlike T20 where most characters begin play at the apex of their career and then go off adventuring. I've not looked at the feat and tables in D&D for some time but agree it should be workable in some fashion for T20 if the players and GM are willing.

The idea of upping the required level might be a good way to make it work, or maybe it could be rolled into a Prestige Class(es?) (Leader?) since these are generally only available once in play or at least after a lot of prior history.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I would allow a modified Leadership feat, or a similar feat, in a Traveller game depending on the circumstances of the PCs and the campaign.

I actually see it as a very viable option in a game in which there are only one or two PCs. It can be used to flesh out the PCs party with significant recurring NPCs.

I like using the Leadership feat/contacts/ally buys in games with low numbers of players, especially if there is only one player. It gives the player a support network without making him overly powerful, especially if the GM exercises control over the contacts' availability and/or willingness to help, given the game situation. Those contacts or allies might not be there for the PC at all times. And there are some things they won't be willing to do.

 

[Jester666]

Well Woo,
Its a mixed bag of replies,

look at it this way, O'GM with little time, Do you like the idea of rolling up NPCs and controlling them, given one of your players has a certain knack of creating NPC accidents,or do you let him have his cronies, for you to control him with, I would have you recall Bazil's female paladin follower on the parapit of the Kurgan's keep, my that's gotta hurt, Baz didnt need to role play the tears, he shed them easily. So should the Duc of Death if he misbehaves.

 

[far-trader]

Hi again,

Taking my own advice to task for some perverse reason I hacked together a Prestige Class proposal to address this idea. Its here for anybody who might be interested.

 

[Richard Saunders]

Hello.
I would assume that if you had followers or retainers at the start of your game regardless of your level they would have to be from the last class you raised, or theclass you are going to next raise (I require my players to pre pick the class they are going to raise next, yes they can change it during play but they loose a part of their experience for the next class (its hard to aquire skills for professional if all you do is fly around and trade) though if the player said they where buying the manuals and training sims for heavy weapons and spent the time training then i would let them bye heavy weapons skills again within reason.
There shouldn't be restricted skills, they are just a lot harder to aquire.
A survival nut bribes a marine into copying the training sims for battledress (yes unless he can aquire a suit it dosn't help but he can use it at no penalty when he does). So you want to know how to maintain and fire a spinal mount meson gun, No prob i know a guy who knows a guy who can get you the manuals and sims for a price.
Bye.

 

[Falkayn]

I would definitely allow the Leadership feat, and I would allow followers to be of any class. But ... the player would need to then show me how the PC would attract a cohort and their followers.

I would probably go so far as to have the player roleplay the gaining of the cohort and the followers at the level he was (and in the career he was in) when he got the feat. That is an important point BTW, as the level you are at when you gain a cohort determines the level the cohort can be (cohorts don't automatically increase in XP as you do). Some people would then wait to get a cohort when they were higher level, but then they might have to do it during 'game-time' and find it harder to do than pre-game.

But the idea certainly fits, it might be that the cohort for a Merchant who has his own free traderis the Pilot, and the followers are low level merchants who help crew the ship.

After all in Star Wars, Chewbacca is essentially Han Solo's cohort. Later on, Luke has a bunch of low-level Jedi followers when he starts his Jedi school. I would use Traveller characters, but I have not read any books (and few story hours). I guess Ditzie is a cohort of Uncle Dennis?

 

[Richard Saunders]

Hello Falkyn.
I guess we should ask the author, because i assumed that Uncle denis was Ditzies Cohort (she is older and deffinetly more scary than uncle denis).
Uncle denis dosn't try that hard to talk ditsie out of mass mayhem, and she probably wouldn't listen if she was seriously anoyed anyway.
A born leader most of the time shouldn't need to order someone to do something, sugesting it would be a good idea should get it done, A loyal and devoted follower will do things because they KNOW you would want it done (they dont ask they do) and when you notice and give them your thanks and a pat on the back it's worth more than money, it's FRIENDSHIP.
Friendship is loyalty but Loyalty isn't friendship.
Bye.