Leviathan, reworked

[robject]

I saw the now-obvious comment about Adventure 4 that the Leviathan's primary problem was that it had backup drives, rather than carrying 'spare parts'. The craft has a specified range of 300 days after all; thus repairs seem a shoo-in instead of backup assemblies.

Therefore, I've removed the backups, and come up with 295 tons of cargo space. Definitely not a 'make-money' freighter. Nor does it really seem appropriately gunned compared with what I'm used to seeing (although, I note that its loadout does seem appropriate to classic Traveller). However, this is an exploratory merchant cruiser thing, designed to 'show the flag' while also exploring new trade routes and opportunities. Plus it has four smallcraft which could also field weapons.

The result is a slightly more flexible design.

Volume:       1,800
Crew:         56
Drives:       J3M4P4
Computer:     Model/7fib
Fuel:         612t (580t?)
Range:        300 days
Life support: 33 SR, 6 LB
Cargo:        295 [70t +110(jump) +43(maneuver) +67(power) +5(comp)]
Armament:     2 blt-2
              4 blt-2
              4 mt-1
              6 extra hardpoints
Carried:      1 Shuttle (95t)
              1 Pinnace (40t)
              2 Lifeboats (20t)
              1 Air/Raft

 

[R_Chance]

... and if the drive is not repairable? I'd be missing that back up drive big time. The Leviathan class was a trade / exploration ship IIRC. Designed to work the rim. It might need the backup to jump out of a situation after combat damage or just to return to more civilized climes where the main drive could be replaced or completely refitted. If you're going far beyond the border I'd stick with a backup drive.

 

[boomslang]

The result is a slightly more flexible design.

You can trim her a lot tighter than that.

First off, she has way too much computer; the dtons aren't a problem, but the cost is absurdly wasteful on a J-3 starship.

Secondly, there is no practical reason why she can't be streamlined, and therefore self-refueling.

And once she's streamlined, you can lose most of the absurd flotilla of small craft (what are they running anyway, a traveling Boat Show?), boosting her available payload & stores.

For that matter, take her on up to a round 2K dtons (avoiding the whole "starships exceeding their rated build displacement via externally-slung loads" can of worms), and you can stick a pair of carried Types S or J in there, fitted with some extra fuel and a whole lotta emergency low berths, and the problematic "jump torpedos" can be retconned into merciful oblivion.

 

[boomslang]

If you're going far beyond the border I'd stick with a backup drive.

If they're really desired by the purchaser, the backup drives and computer should all be level-1; on the likely chance they'll never be needed, you'll want to minimize the monetary and displacement investment...

 

[R_Chance]

If they're really desired by the purchaser, the backup drives and computer should all be level-1; on the likely chance they'll never be needed, you'll want to minimize the monetary and displacement investment...

Exactly. I don't have my copy of Adventure 4 handy, but the backup was J1 IIRC. A slow ship beats a stranded one in any event.

 

[robject]

Why All the Extra Stuff?

I suspect the large boat complement and the backup drives all serve the same purpose -- an exploratory vessel just doesn't need much free cargo space; put most of the hull to use. Fill 'er up.

Boats

The boats are nice... it seems less lonely to have a clutch of auxiliaries swarming about. Too many? Maybe.

For that matter, take her on up to a round 2K dtons (avoiding the whole "starships exceeding their rated build displacement via externally-slung loads" can of worms)

Of course, the real reason not to do this is because 1,800 tons is a more interesting number (for some value of "interesting").

I suppose we can't strap craft onto the hull because then we up the fuel requirements. I.E. not much gain really.


Backup Drives

If they're really desired by the purchaser, the backup drives and computer should all be level-1; on the likely chance they'll never be needed, you'll want to minimize the monetary and displacement investment...

The backups were J2, M3, P3, and C5 respectively.

J1M1P1C1 isn't unreasonable. I realized once I was done that my redesign is unfinished.

What I'd like to see is a Range rule. Note that the official Leviathan has a "Range" attribute, without any corresponding mention of how they arrive at that value.

I've seen Scott Martin, Don McKinney, and others cook up values for Range. Scott's Range Rule (SRR) is to install a Mobile Repair Yard in the ship, which has supplies and tools to rebuild parts of the ship. A yard that can rebuild just about anything, in his system, requires 15% hull volume... essentially taking back most of the volume recovered. Don's Range Rule (DRR) posits a 1% volume per month away from a shipyard, coming to about 10% in this case, which is sorta within the same range as Scott's 15%.

I note that this 'range' option seems preferable in a campaign to running home for repairs, though on the other hand it might be nice to show up at the home base once in awhile to keep up to date with the news.

Note that Traveller does have "temporary repair rules" to keep a drive running on spit and baling wire until you can get it properly repaired. But, if you can't install rebuild a slagged component, then you'll have to abort and run home on backups. Which appears to be the case for CT.

Issue: Range and Rebuild

Apparently there is a divide in opinion between whether or not ships can carry machines capable of rebuilding components; for example, if your jump drive gets melted into a hunk of alloy and polymer, can your shops and crew build a new one? Doesn't this essentially turn your ship into a tiny class-A shipyard? Could it produce a hull? Armor? Can it create any ship entire, up to its host's volume in size?

Are there logistics worth considering within a game context?

How is 'Range' best represented in a game like Traveller? Should there be Cruisers, for instance, which can prowl far behind enemy lines which do not rely on a supply line? For example, in Adventure 3, was there a Zhodani cruiser which must have served as a supply base for the Shivva 'cruisers' orbiting Fulacin (until the starport could be upgraded)? Is it possible that that cruiser may have actually housed and shipped class A facilities to Fulacin?

 

[boomslang]

How is 'Range' best represented in a game like Traveller? Should there be Cruisers, for instance, which can prowl far behind enemy lines which do not rely on a supply line? For example, in Adventure 3, was there a Zhodani cruiser which must have served as a supply base for the Shivva 'cruisers' orbiting Fulacin (until the starport could be upgraded)? Is it possible that that cruiser may have actually housed and shipped class A facilities to Fulacin?

IIRC, there are rules in GT for a) carrying the supplies to do the annual maintenance in the field (.5% of displacement per year), and b) allowing the purchase of life support in advance (by the man-week). But I am not a GT maven, so I cannot confirm/deny.

Another possibility used IMTU (and sort of borrowed from GT, IIRC) are botanicals. This is a sustained life supp system costing Cr10000 per dton to originally stock and providing continually-replenished life supp for one person per 2 dtons of botanical, so long as power is supplied semi-continuously. Every full 35 dtons of a botanical require a ship's Gardener to tend it, who is paid twice what a Gunner makes. "Gardenrooms" may be specified in lieu of staterooms, at 6 dtons each, but note that double occupancy will overburden the botanical unless you bump the whole package up to 8 dtons total.

For some reason, I also have in my notes a mention that on-board repair facilities should displace a minimum 3% of their total servicing capacity, but I have no idea where that number came from...

 

[robject]

IIRC, there are rules in GT for a) carrying the supplies to do the annual maintenance in the field (.5% of displacement per year), and b) allowing the purchase of life support in advance (by the man-week). But I am not a GT maven, so I cannot confirm/deny.

Another possibility used IMTU (and sort of borrowed from GT, IIRC) are botanicals. This is a sustained life supp system costing Cr10000 per dton to originally stock and providing continually-replenished life supp for one person per 2 dtons of botanical, so long as power is supplied semi-continuously. Every full 35 dtons of a botanical require a ship's Gardener to tend it, who is paid twice what a Gunner makes. "Gardenrooms" may be specified in lieu of staterooms, at 6 dtons each, but note that double occupancy will overburden the botanical unless you bump the whole package up to 8 dtons total.

For some reason, I also have in my notes a mention that on-board repair facilities should displace a minimum 3% of their total servicing capacity, but I have no idea where that number came from...

Well then, it sounds like everyone's got the same two rocks to throw on the cart. 1%-per-month versus 0.5%-per-year, 3% versus something bigger... just depends on what decisions you want to force I think (or if you don't want to really force any decision at all but prefer the kitchen sink approach).

 

[Andrew Boulton]

FF&S2 has rules for extended life support.

 

[robject]

FF&S2 has rules for extended life support.

Right. Its numbers are, roughly:

Closed loop thermal, air & water: 1.6% volume
Closed loop food, rated by quality (low to high):
V-a: 7t/person
V-b: 14t/person
V-b: 35t/person
V-d: 100t/person (not suitable for ships)

Or, just a food supply (2 weeks):
Meager: 0.07 c-m / person
Normal: 0.12 c-m / person
Good to Excellent: 0.14 c-m / person


So then, a 1-man XBoat could have algae vats for 7% of its volume.
The Free Trader would minimally need 3.5%... but they often have 2, 3, 4 people, so 7%, 10.5%, or 14% volume.
And, the 50-man Leviathan could have algae vats for 20% of its volume.
And, a Plankwell could have algae vats for 4% of its volume.

 

[Gadrin]

Issue: Range and Rebuild

Apparently there is a divide in opinion between whether or not ships can carry machines capable of rebuilding components; for example, if your jump drive gets melted into a hunk of alloy and polymer, can your shops and crew build a new one? Doesn't this essentially turn your ship into a tiny class-A shipyard? Could it produce a hull? Armor? Can it create any ship entire, up to its host's volume in size?

From the CT Zhodani Alien Module, p9...

In -4074, the Zhodani Heavy Cruiser Lienjqiets (Swift
Wind) misjumped and was presumed lost; forty years later, it
returned to Consulate space. It had spent 38-years on a tech
level 3 world fabricating an important component of its jump
drive.

That's a "heavy cruiser" but I suppose one ship doesn't or can't
cover everything.

 

[robject]

From the CT Zhodani Alien Module, p9...

In -4074, the Zhodani Heavy Cruiser Lienjqiets (Swift
Wind) misjumped and was presumed lost; forty years later, it
returned to Consulate space. It had spent 38-years on a tech
level 3 world fabricating an important component of its jump
drive.

That's a "heavy cruiser" but I suppose one ship doesn't or can't
cover everything.

And 38 years is a long time for fabrication

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

And 38 years is a long time for fabrication

I dunno. That's about how long David Bowie took, and he had a tech level 7 planet to work with.

 

[Gadrin]

And 38 years is a long time for fabrication

well, I took that to mean that Traveller <> Starfleet who are basically master engineers/scientists roaming the galaxy in ships with teleporters and replicators

anyway, one ship can't be representative of the CT milieu and I think it's possible with certain craft, but that's it's mostly a GMs decision.

it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[robject]

well, I took that to mean that Traveller <> Starfleet who are basically master engineers/scientists roaming the galaxy in ships with teleporters and replicators

anyway, one ship can't be representative of the CT milieu and I think it's possible with certain craft, but that's it's mostly a GMs decision.

it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

It seems pretty reasonable to say that that Zhodani cruiser didn't have the machine shop to rebuild their jump drive But they apparently had enough ingenuity to survive until they could build a replacement... wonder what they had to do to do that. Basically like upgrading a little starport...

 

[robject]

Alrighty then, I've decided the Leviathan should be worked up with the T5 draft shipbuilding rules. Instead of backup drives, I've used Scott Martin's "range" assumptions and added a "C"-class mobile repair yard for 5%, 10 months of spare parts for 10%, and double the crew volume for long-range life/living support.

...then I went nuts, lost my sense of "purpose", and added a 50-ton particle accelerator bay (powered by a Fusion+ plant housed in engineering, using spare allocation space from the bay, of course). That should make Shivva cruisers think twice...

1,800t        Hull T (NS)
   40         Double Bridge (10 consoles)
    -         c1  Model/4
   80         J-drive-Q (J3)
   35         M-drive-T (M4)
   55         P-plant-T (P4, 1800Mj)
  576         Fuel
    6         6 BL Turrets
    4         4 M Turrets
   50         PA Bay
    5         5 Spare hardpoints
  256         42 Staterooms (32 crew), extended range
    6         6 Emergency Low Berths
   90         "C" class mobile repair yard
  180         10 months repair materials 
  124         1 Shuttle (95t)
   52         1 Pinnace (40t)
   52         2 Lifeboats (20t)
    6         1 Air/Raft
  182         Cargo

 

[navywarlord]

...then I went nuts, lost my sense of "purpose", and added a 50-ton particle accelerator bay. That should make Shivva cruisers think twice...[/code]

Wouldn't a PA bay be a military class weapon and not found on a typical frontier trade ship?

 

[robject]

Wouldn't a PA bay be a military class weapon and not found on a typical frontier trade ship?

I reckon you're probably right. Sorry, just kind of lost my head, there. (Maybe it's sort of like the Emissary, not allowed to set foot back in the Imperium?) I also calculated life support range incorrectly -- should be doing it based on number of crew, not number of staterooms. Saved me some more space.

1,800t        Hull T (NS)
   40         Double Bridge (10 consoles)
    -         c1  Model/4
   80         J-drive-Q (J3)
   35         M-drive-T (M4)
   55         P-plant-T (P4, 1800Mj)
  612         Fuel (4 weeks)
    6         6 BL Turrets
    4         4 M Turrets
    6         6 Spare hardpoints
  256         Ranged life support and staterooms (32 crew)
    6         6 Emergency Low Berths
   90         "C" class mobile repair yard
  180         10 months repair materials 
  124         1 Shuttle (95t)
   52         1 Pinnace (40t)
   52         2 Lifeboats (20t)
    6         1 Air/Raft
  196         Cargo

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I'd drop the MD down to 3g (maybe even 2g - what's the hurry?), and replace the shuttle with a Scout/Courier and the pinnace & lifeboats with a pair of cutters.

 

[robject]

I'd drop the MD down to 3g (maybe even 2g - what's the hurry?), and replace the shuttle with a Scout/Courier and the pinnace & lifeboats with a pair of cutters.

Those are extremely cool ideas. How about we make that an official predecessor? From Adv4:

...the Leviathan class was developed from previous designs...

So, a hypothetical predecessor Scout cruiser, complete with a couple squads of Marines.

Militarized Long-Range Scout Cruiser

Volume  Component                       
1,800t  Hull T (Partial Streamlining)                     
   40   Double Bridge (10 consoles)
    -   c1  Model/6
   80   J-drive-Q (J3)
   23   M-drive-M (M2)
   46   P-plant-Q (P3, 1500Mj)
  660   Fuel (8wks)
   10   10 LMS Hybrid Turrets
   50   PA bay
    2   2 Commcaster Turrets
    2   2 Datacaster Turrets
    1   1 CCC Turret
  160   Ranged life support (20 crew)
  128   Marines barracks (16 troops)
   20   Infirmary
    8   8 Emergency Low Berths
   90   "C" class mobile repair yard
  180   10 months repair materials 
  130   1 Scout (100t)
  130   2 Cutters (100t)
    6   1 Air/Raft
   33   Cargo

And, while I'm at it, an Extended Merchant Freighter. Not as sexy as the Scout Cruiser, but easy to generate.

"One of several hypothetical predecessor designs to the Leviathan-class Merchant Cruiser. Designed for contracted shipping along the X-boat route."

Volume  Component                       
1,800t  Hull T (Partial Streamlining)                     
   40   Double Bridge (10 consoles)
    -   c1  Model/4
   95   J-drive-T (J4)
   17   M-drive-J (M1)
   55   P-plant-T (P4, 1800Mj)
  216   Fuel (2wks)
    2   2 Commcaster Turrets
   10   Hardpoints
   40   Crew staterooms (10)
  128   Passenger staterooms (32)
    8   16 Low Berths
   53   1 Pinnace (40t)
    6   1 Air/Raft
 1130   Cargo