Maintenance question
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Drakon
SOC-14 1K
I would think this would not be a problem. Why should higher tech levels not be easier to maintain than lower tech level equipment?
Compare a 50's chevy vs a modern hybrid...Which requires more knowledge, etc to maintain? (I'm talking a full maintenance...Tune up, oil change, fluid flushes, etc)
AFAIK in all versions of Trav, starport/local TL is only relevant to construction/repair (and perhaps ordinance resupply) concerns; maintenance is traditionally TL-independent.
IMTU, the yearly overhaul consists mostly of performance tuning and detailed cleaning, both requiring some fairly generic expendable supplies and a specialized equipment infrastructure.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Largely MTU, you're warned...
CT - B2 requires only a Class A or B starport with no mention of a tech level requirement for maintenance.
IMTU:
Shipyards and boatyards are where you get maintenance and repairs done, and they do not stock parts for ships they can't service, either by size or TL. They also don't have crews who know what to do with ships outside their TL either.
Only shipyards (Class A starports) carry jump drive parts and can do repairs and maintenance of jump drives in addition to the rest of the ship or boat systems. Boatyards (Class B starports) can do repairs and maintenance of anything except jump drives.
For example:
If your TL9 Free Trader Jump Drive breaks down at a TL14 Class A starport you have to order the parts, and crew* to do the work.
* Or do the work yourself (I presume the crew of a ship is competent in repairing and maintaining their own ship) taking twice the time.
This requires the additional time and expense to get the order to the nearest TL 9 shipyard (Class A starport) and have it shipped back. A good excuse for a vacation or local adventure
Only shipyards and boatyards can do repairs or maintenance IMTU (not Class C or lesser starports). Yes, a bit heretical, but check the reasoning below...
The only mention of TL I can think of at the moment is CT - TCS Adv 5, and that's for repairs where the starport must be at least the same TL of the system being repaired, and it must be a Class A or B starport*, and for jump drives the repair is double the time and cost if done at a Class B starport.
* Which flies in the face of canon that Class C starports can make repairs per CT - B3. Internal inconsistency
So what else is new 
However, if maintenance is easier than repair (which seems reasonable), and only Class A or B can do maintenance, then how can Class C do repairs? Well, as noted above, IMTU it can't. Hey! Consistent with Adv 5 (and there's another nagging deja-vu feeling, I'm out of here... )
(...almost out of here.)
That makes some sense too.
CT - B2 requires only a Class A or B starport with no mention of a tech level requirement for maintenance.
IMTU:
Shipyards and boatyards are where you get maintenance and repairs done, and they do not stock parts for ships they can't service, either by size or TL. They also don't have crews who know what to do with ships outside their TL either.
Only shipyards (Class A starports) carry jump drive parts and can do repairs and maintenance of jump drives in addition to the rest of the ship or boat systems. Boatyards (Class B starports) can do repairs and maintenance of anything except jump drives.
For example:
If your TL9 Free Trader Jump Drive breaks down at a TL14 Class A starport you have to order the parts, and crew* to do the work.
* Or do the work yourself (I presume the crew of a ship is competent in repairing and maintaining their own ship) taking twice the time.
This requires the additional time and expense to get the order to the nearest TL 9 shipyard (Class A starport) and have it shipped back. A good excuse for a vacation or local adventure
Only shipyards and boatyards can do repairs or maintenance IMTU (not Class C or lesser starports). Yes, a bit heretical, but check the reasoning below...
The only mention of TL I can think of at the moment is CT - TCS Adv 5, and that's for repairs where the starport must be at least the same TL of the system being repaired, and it must be a Class A or B starport*, and for jump drives the repair is double the time and cost if done at a Class B starport.
* Which flies in the face of canon that Class C starports can make repairs per CT - B3. Internal inconsistency
So what else is new However, if maintenance is easier than repair (which seems reasonable), and only Class A or B can do maintenance, then how can Class C do repairs? Well, as noted above, IMTU it can't. Hey! Consistent with Adv 5 (and there's another nagging deja-vu feeling, I'm out of here... )(...almost out of here.)
That makes some sense too.
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'pends.
for merchantmen, subsidized liners, and other standard ships on regular runs, no. whatever tech is required and not supported by the planet is imported by the various civilian repair facilities (imtu the imperium owns the shipyards, the associated worlds do not).
if you get way off the beaten track there may not be anything supporting your boat at all, high tech or not. some of those "shipyards" listed on the star charts are nothing more than token or abandoned facilities with a few caretakers, required by treaty but largely non-functional. "yeah, we have a mechanic. he went to the bar last month, haven't seen him since."
military is mixed. naval ships are designed to be maintained and repaired by monkeys with hammers whereever possible. regular maintenance will be tech dependent, requiring either a major tech-matching shipyard, a naval base, or a depot. repairs will be at a major tech-matching shipyard or a naval depot.
TCS campaign rules p.35 ..."Full repair may be done at any A or B starport, but j-drive repairs require double cost and time at B starports, and no starport may repair a ship system of higher tech level than the starport's tech level."... It's unclear though on the TL issue regarding annual maintenance. Personally I always took that to be repairs in essence.
My take has always been that it requires equal TL or greater to repair or do annual maintenance, although i see great sense in the shipping in of parts (standard drives!), especially along trade routes and/or as part of corporate/other facilities. The higher TL shipbuilding worlds though, tend to have the ability of higher jump capability (especially in HG), while LBB2 has larger ships more, in addition to the higher jump capability. That the scout/couriers and free traders were all TL9/A and the military and corporate traders (1000t J4 say) were all higher TL seemed to have that aspect to it. I always figured the higher TL stuff generally has higher jump capability, thus is more able to go further to a high tech port. This leaves room for large "tug" ships to drag busted high tech stuff back to where it can be repaired, which i like.
That the 1st Imperium was Vilani, and they had a monopoly on interstellar travel, and the bureaus, always spoke to me of more centrally managed stuff, Class A ports, Jump drives being highly controlled. Having any A port be able to repair any TL jump vessel doesn't jibe with that to my mind, and makes the Long Night harder to work out. Interesting everyone seems to think differently though! Got me intrigued here now! Good thread!
My take has always been that it requires equal TL or greater to repair or do annual maintenance, although i see great sense in the shipping in of parts (standard drives!), especially along trade routes and/or as part of corporate/other facilities. The higher TL shipbuilding worlds though, tend to have the ability of higher jump capability (especially in HG), while LBB2 has larger ships more, in addition to the higher jump capability. That the scout/couriers and free traders were all TL9/A and the military and corporate traders (1000t J4 say) were all higher TL seemed to have that aspect to it. I always figured the higher TL stuff generally has higher jump capability, thus is more able to go further to a high tech port. This leaves room for large "tug" ships to drag busted high tech stuff back to where it can be repaired, which i like.
That the 1st Imperium was Vilani, and they had a monopoly on interstellar travel, and the bureaus, always spoke to me of more centrally managed stuff, Class A ports, Jump drives being highly controlled. Having any A port be able to repair any TL jump vessel doesn't jibe with that to my mind, and makes the Long Night harder to work out. Interesting everyone seems to think differently though! Got me intrigued here now! Good thread!
A starport doesn't get a Class A or B rating unless it is capable of performing annual maintenance on ships of all tech levels. As for spare parts, presumably a mobil fabrication facility with a proper supply of raw materials can manufacture any part it has the specs for.
Hans
Hans
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
For once, I'm in agreement with Hans.
Otherwise, TL 15 vessels would have a real hard time operating on the Imperial Fringe.
Another thing to consider.... The neat TL rules that DGP introduced. You can find them in Grand Survey, and the rules were carried on into MT's World Builder's Handbook.
Basically, what DGP did was add more detail to the world TL ratings. The TL in the UWP was still the main, overall TL used, but as a general rating. Several categories of tech were broken down, with modifiers, to show a world's teck in certain areas.
For example, a desert world would have a very low tech in Water Transport even though the world general TL may be quite high. A world without an atmosphere might have a low TL in that area even though the UWP rating is higher.
The DGP rules also go into TL for installations. Like the US bases in Vietnam in the 70's, sometimes you have a high tech installation surrounded by a very low tech environment. So, Naval Bases, for example, all have minimum TLs, no matter the TL of the world the base sits upon. The same goes for Starports. Each class of starport as a minimum TL for that installation.
For example, Pysadi, in the Aramis subsector of the Spinward Marches is a TL 4 world, but it also sports a Class C Starport. Under the DGP rules, the Starport would be a minimum TL 8 (and could be higher under certain circumstances).
Don't forget to make some assumptions as a GM based on the info you have about the worlds. Common Sense is your friend.
In one of the campaigns I ran a few years ago, I used these worlds as possible homeworlds for the PCs.
Pysadi C4766D7-4 Agricultural. Non-industrial. Gas Giant in system. Imperiallines Station.
Vanejen C686854-5 Rich. Imperial Research Station.
Natoko B582211-8 Imperial Naval Base. Non-industrial. Low Pop. Gas Giant in system. Naasirka Stationl Tukera Station.
Patinir C000632-9 Asteroid Belt. Gas Giant in system. Imperiallines Station. Non-agricultural. Ancient Site.
Aramis A6B0556-B Imperial Naval Base. Imperial Scout Base. Non-industrial. Subsector Capital. Akerut Station. Tukera Station. Naasirka Station. Desert World.
A GM can make a lot of TL assumptions just based on that information. Aramis, the desert world, probably has really low tech flyers (if any at all). Natoko has a low population, so most of the world is not developed. At that low pop, the people must be in the installations alone. This will affect tech. Patinir, an asteroid belt, again, has certain Common Sense effects on technology available in the area.
In that campaign, I would take the info I had and make these little write-ups for the players, handing them to the player who had a character from that world so that the player would have a sense of where his character had come from.
For example, if a player's character hailed from Pysadi, I'd hand him this short write up:
HOMEWORLD PYSADI
Pysadi, a world in the Aramis scatters, lies in a hot binary system. People live close to the poles, and the natives tend to be weak because of the 0.5G local gravity. The atmosphere is dirtied with a light taint.
Pysadi is a low-tech world settled by a Solomani muslim sect a few hundred years ago. Characters from Pysadi are considered to be Imperials, not locals, who live and operate the Class C downport and its associated businesses (not unlike working for an oil company in the Middle East today). The entire interior environs of the starport are built using standard 1G grav plates (typical of space station construction), and although Pysaid sports a TL 4, the starport is considered TL 8.
Typical temperatures (degrees F) on Pysaidi average 171 at the equator (Summer 174 - Winter 154) because of the binary stars. The tropics aren't much better, averaging 144 (Summer 154 - Winter 117), but the habital area of Pysadi, the two poles, are fairly comfortable, averaging 81 (Summer 109 - Winter 25).
Pysadi is ruled by a fairly strict Religious Dictatorship, but the downport is considered extra-territorial. The Class C instellation sees moderate traffic from free traders operating in the scatters, and Imperriallines maintains on office on the world.
Over the last five years, the Imperium has built and maintains a small scientific outstation in the Pysadi system, deep in the outer orbit of one of the system's stars.
PYSADI
STARPORT: C
SIZE: Small
ATMOSPHERE: Std. Taint
HYDROSPHERE: Wet
POPULATION: Moderate
LAW LEVEL: Moderate
TECH LEVEL: Industrial
(post continued)
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
(continued from above)
Next, I used the DGP rules to give the player a sense of the technology that was available on his character's homeworld. The DGP rules are also good for telling the GM and players what to expect on certain worlds.
For example, Pysaidi turned out like this...
COMMON TECH LEVEL
=================
The common tech level is the TL normally associated with the world. The High Common TL is that used in the world's UPP, determined by the Scouts when the world was surveyed. High Common TL applies to the area around the world's starport and large urban areas on the planet.
Low Common TL is that associated with the world's rural and more remote areas (on some worlds, this can refer to a majority of the world's populace--especially on low population worlds).
A range is given next to the Low Common TL to give the GM an idea of the technology used on the world.
PYSADI HIGH COMMON: 4
PYSADI LOW COMMON: 2 (2-4)
ACHIEVEMENT TECH LEVEL
======================
This section lists the TL associated with different categories of technology on the world.
When a player goes through character generation, the GM can and should use a TL from the appropriate category for each skill a character obtains rather than using the High Common TL for every skill earned.
For example, a world's High Common TL may be TL 9, but since the world is an asteroid belt, water transportation may not be highly developed (in fact, in this example, any TL associated with water transportation is obtained by industry in the area, producing items for export).
When an achievement TL is higher than the High Common TL (represented in the range of TL's given, not the usual TL given for the category), this represents proto-type, experimental, and research-driven technology not common to the masses (so use common sense when allowing a character to associate one of his skills a TL that is higher than the High Common).
So, on Vanejen, it is common to see TL 6 medical instruments and drugs, but TL 6 robots are still in the experimental stage (TL 5 robots are common).
PYSADI ENERGY: 4 (2-4)
PYSADI COMPUTER/ROBOTICS: 2 (1-4)
PYSADI COMMUNICATIONS: 4 (1-4)
PYSADI MEDICAL: 2 (0-4)
PYSADI ENVIRONMENT: 4
PYSADI LAND TRANSPORT: 4 (0-4)
PYSADI WATER TRANSPORT: 4 (0-4)
PYSADI AIR TRANSPORT: 4 (4-9)
PYSADI SPACE TRANSPORT: 2 (1-4)
Notice that Pysadi's technoloical efforts are primarily in Air Transport (reaching as high as TL 9). Why is this? A GM could work this into his game. In my game, this was caused by the Starport employing vehicles to fly out to remote parts of the world. Tech "leak" from the starport has given a boost to that industry on Pysadi.
I also rationalized that Pysadians, all of the one faith, worshipped the world itself, calling it Mother Pysadi. In their view, the world provided for all their needs: food, air, building materials, a preserve for the anolas, etc. So, it stands to reason that Land Transport, and anything else that would tear up surface of Mother Pysadi, would be an industry that was stifled by the local inhabitants. The starport, for that very reason, decided to focus on air transport instead of a rail or trucking system, to send trade goods to the various cities on the world.
MILITARY TECH LEVEL
===================
The Personal Military category applies to any type of weapon or gear a person can carry. This can be weapons or armor. Note that things like radios will fall under the Communications category listed above.
The Heavy Military category applies to vehicles and items not normally associated with personal gear. Heavy Milityar TL supercedes the transport TL's associated with the world.
PYSADI PERSONAL MILITARY: 4 (0-4)
PYSADI HEAVY MILITARY: 4 (0-4)
NOVELTY
=======
The novelty category represents items that characters can find on a world that are rare but have been imported or are a result of "spillage" from inter-stellar travellers.
PYSADI NOVELTY: 4
STARPORT TECH LEVEL
===================
No matter the TL associated with a world, a starport has a minimum TL associated with it (akin to the high-tech equipment found in US bases in Vietnam during that war).
PYSADI STARPORT: 8
Again, all of this information was generated by using the rules given in DGP's Grand Survey (also included in the World Builder's Handbook).
These rules add a lot of depth to the category of technology, making the places the players visit that much more interesting and real.
Next, I used the DGP rules to give the player a sense of the technology that was available on his character's homeworld. The DGP rules are also good for telling the GM and players what to expect on certain worlds.
For example, Pysaidi turned out like this...
COMMON TECH LEVEL
=================
The common tech level is the TL normally associated with the world. The High Common TL is that used in the world's UPP, determined by the Scouts when the world was surveyed. High Common TL applies to the area around the world's starport and large urban areas on the planet.
Low Common TL is that associated with the world's rural and more remote areas (on some worlds, this can refer to a majority of the world's populace--especially on low population worlds).
A range is given next to the Low Common TL to give the GM an idea of the technology used on the world.
PYSADI HIGH COMMON: 4
PYSADI LOW COMMON: 2 (2-4)
ACHIEVEMENT TECH LEVEL
======================
This section lists the TL associated with different categories of technology on the world.
When a player goes through character generation, the GM can and should use a TL from the appropriate category for each skill a character obtains rather than using the High Common TL for every skill earned.
For example, a world's High Common TL may be TL 9, but since the world is an asteroid belt, water transportation may not be highly developed (in fact, in this example, any TL associated with water transportation is obtained by industry in the area, producing items for export).
When an achievement TL is higher than the High Common TL (represented in the range of TL's given, not the usual TL given for the category), this represents proto-type, experimental, and research-driven technology not common to the masses (so use common sense when allowing a character to associate one of his skills a TL that is higher than the High Common).
So, on Vanejen, it is common to see TL 6 medical instruments and drugs, but TL 6 robots are still in the experimental stage (TL 5 robots are common).
PYSADI ENERGY: 4 (2-4)
PYSADI COMPUTER/ROBOTICS: 2 (1-4)
PYSADI COMMUNICATIONS: 4 (1-4)
PYSADI MEDICAL: 2 (0-4)
PYSADI ENVIRONMENT: 4
PYSADI LAND TRANSPORT: 4 (0-4)
PYSADI WATER TRANSPORT: 4 (0-4)
PYSADI AIR TRANSPORT: 4 (4-9)
PYSADI SPACE TRANSPORT: 2 (1-4)
Notice that Pysadi's technoloical efforts are primarily in Air Transport (reaching as high as TL 9). Why is this? A GM could work this into his game. In my game, this was caused by the Starport employing vehicles to fly out to remote parts of the world. Tech "leak" from the starport has given a boost to that industry on Pysadi.
I also rationalized that Pysadians, all of the one faith, worshipped the world itself, calling it Mother Pysadi. In their view, the world provided for all their needs: food, air, building materials, a preserve for the anolas, etc. So, it stands to reason that Land Transport, and anything else that would tear up surface of Mother Pysadi, would be an industry that was stifled by the local inhabitants. The starport, for that very reason, decided to focus on air transport instead of a rail or trucking system, to send trade goods to the various cities on the world.
MILITARY TECH LEVEL
===================
The Personal Military category applies to any type of weapon or gear a person can carry. This can be weapons or armor. Note that things like radios will fall under the Communications category listed above.
The Heavy Military category applies to vehicles and items not normally associated with personal gear. Heavy Milityar TL supercedes the transport TL's associated with the world.
PYSADI PERSONAL MILITARY: 4 (0-4)
PYSADI HEAVY MILITARY: 4 (0-4)
NOVELTY
=======
The novelty category represents items that characters can find on a world that are rare but have been imported or are a result of "spillage" from inter-stellar travellers.
PYSADI NOVELTY: 4
STARPORT TECH LEVEL
===================
No matter the TL associated with a world, a starport has a minimum TL associated with it (akin to the high-tech equipment found in US bases in Vietnam during that war).
PYSADI STARPORT: 8
Again, all of this information was generated by using the rules given in DGP's Grand Survey (also included in the World Builder's Handbook).
These rules add a lot of depth to the category of technology, making the places the players visit that much more interesting and real.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Just a quick note on how to read this line.
This means that, most commonly, computers and robotic technolgy found on the world of Pyadi will be TL 2 equipment.
But, equipment at TL 1 can be found, and equipment as has as TL 4 can be found as well (at an appropriate price increase).
So, basically, computers, as the PCs know them, are non-existent on Pysadi (TL 2). And, even those rudimentary calculating machines (abacus) are at a lower tech than what is common for the world (Pysadi's UWP TL is TL 4).
Easterner9504
SOC-13
Does this mean he's rehabilitated after proper re-education and can start posting again?
S4,
I agree with Hans too. Then again, I agree with him more often than not!
I agree with him with the proviso that - as the GM - I can tweak these maintenance assumptions both in a nod towards reality and for the needs of my campaign.
No supply system is perfect. As a GM I should be able to say that the yard at Overnale is currently lacking replacement for your TL13 ancillary frommitz flux control board. You must either wait for a shipment from the manufacturer or make due with the TL12 or TL14 version.
No scheduling system is perfect. As a GM I should be able to say that yard at Ffudn is currently overbooked due to unforeseen scheduling issues involving Glisten and Edenelt. With Ffudn and Bendor attempting to fill the gap, you won't be able to get your overhaul done in two weeks.
No yard is going to handle every ship. Unless a slip happens to be empty, Bilstein isn't going to waste time, skills, and capacity overhauling a Beowulf. They'll concentrate on big ticket items instead and leave the tramp trader market to others.
Now, yards aren't always short of parts, schedules aren't always fouled up, and most yards will always handle most ships. However, in the real world all three of those things do happen and, as a GM, I'd be remiss not to use those real world events to both control and add realism to my campaign.
As long as you don't abuse exceptions, exceptions should be used.
Regards,
Bill
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Absolutely! That's the number one rule of Classic Traveller. What the GM says, goes. And, the good GMs make decisions with the overall goal of telling a good, interesting, addicting story.
My couple of posts recently were just to highlight tools to do so.
And, I did mention to add in a huge portion of Common Sense when thinking about the game.
EDIT: I should also mention that JG's Fifty Starbases has a small but excellent section for CT starports--listing what to expect at each class of facility.
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I weouldn't have it any other way. When I said a starport doesn't get a Class A or B rating unless they can provide adequate maintenance service, I meant that someone at the Scouts has given them a rating that supposedly means it can handle maintenance. Why he gave them that rating is a different question. It could be because it can handle it, but it could also be for other reasons. And conditions change. If, for whatever reason, a starport stops being able to provide such service in a timely manner, it may be downgraded, but that takes time to percolate throught the bureaucracy. Or if it's a temporary hitch, it may not be downgraded before the problem has been solved.
Hans
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
There are specific rules, but its based on Starport class, not the TL in the UWP.
