Merchants - Starting a Business

[kaijupanda]

Let's say your merry band of Travellers just recently got out of a rough scrap and are stuck somewhere for a several months while their ship undergoes repairs/upgrades. When they are busy figuring out how to spend their time, the merchant in your group turns to you and says "I want to open up a restaurant. What do I need to do, and how much would it cost?" How would you handle this?

 

[Xenon]

Let him!

have him makes checks for admin and broker skills to get started, along with a modest investment of say 10,000 credits. after that it depends what kind of restaurant, and what tactics he tries to use. [and let him know he can only get half of that back when he closes shop, at best- the rest was rent, wages, and fees].

aside from that, just run it in the background, possibly with a skill check every week to see if he makes or loses money.

 

[saundby]

And just when things go into the black, the local mob shows up, a waitress cleans out the till, the chef shows up drunk, the busboy trips and creates a horrible mess on a couple of local politicians enjoying a meal, a look in the freezer turns up a pile of rotten meat, just as the health inspectors walk in.:devil:

 

[kaijupanda]

I was thinking of some sort of monthly check to determine how the business is doing (determining profits/losses), but I'm not sure how to go about that, or rather, what sort of numbers would be reasonable.

I did have visions of the mob shaking 'em down for protection money, lol.

 

[Dragoner]

And just when things go into the black, the local mob shows up, a waitress cleans out the till, the chef shows up drunk, the busboy trips and creates a horrible mess on a couple of local politicians enjoying a meal, a look in the freezer turns up a pile of rotten meat, just as the health inspectors walk in.:devil:

Too bad you can't "like" posts here.

 

[rancke]

I was thinking of some sort of monthly check to determine how the business is doing (determining profits/losses), but I'm not sure how to go about that, or rather, what sort of numbers would be reasonable.

Is there perhaps a city agency (in your city) that gives advice to people who want to start up a business? Perhaps you can get some folders that could give you some pointers. Or even a personal interview if it's a slow day.

EDIT: Googling "Starting small business" gave half a billion hits. I've no idea how to sort the wheat from the chaff, but you might give it a try.

I did have visions of the mob shaking 'em down for protection money, lol.

But of course.


Hans

 

[Xenon]

if you have book 7: merchant prince, then just use the profit table on page 40 for losses/gains. it depends on the original investment and on the effect of the skill roll. they could even hire someone else with more skill to manage their investment, for a percentage of the profits (2% per +1 skill).

if the mafia does shake em down and they refuse... then theres a new rival that can screw with their ship repairs. as in, how many union dockworkers are on the take?

 

[Spinward Scout]

Too bad you can't "like" posts here.

I mentioned something to Andrew a while back about another board I'm on that has a 'Thanks' button. A lot of these forum programs have it. I think it would go over well here. But it might not - you never know.

 

[saundby]

Goodness...what can I say?

A restaurant is one of the highest cost and lowest profit small businesses. About 60% go out of business within 3 years, which is the time period you need to be prepared to operate in the red at a minimum. It's about 75% at 5 years.

Initial costs are high, but can't be scamped unless you happen to walk in on a really great deal on an existing business that really is a great deal and you were the person who got the deal. Very unlikely.

Supplier problems and employee problems are endless. Just when you think there might be a profit, it's time to renovate/reupholster/replace an expensive item--usually requiring skilled labor to do the work at top dollar.

Some decent cash flow should be going within 6 mos. of opening. If you're lucky and popular, you'll be meeting expenses a fair bit of the time. A lot of this depends on how good your manager is. A good manager will manage expenses and employees well.

Here are some sites with reasonable info for beginners (probably more than you want for the game, but a skim gives all sorts of reasons why things just aren't coming up roses.

http://www.allfoodbusiness.com/starting_your_own_business.php
http://www.mindbiz.com.au/profit/restaurantmanagement.htm
http://articles.bplans.com/starting-a-business/how-to-start-a-restaurant/210
http://www.evancarmichael.com/Franc...ke-and-why-they-have-a-high-failure-rate.html

What I'd do is roll for losses each month. Maybe on month 3 or 4 I'd throw out a special event that'd give a promising little profit--maybe a street fair in front of their location, or they happen to be on the only street in the area that doesn't lose power on a Saturday from 5 to 10pm, so everyone flocks there. But regular losses otherwise. Maybe have losses decreae a bit as time goes on, looking like there's light at the end of the tunnel.

Then slam them. See post above.

Just like real life, but much cheaper. Maybe you'll convince them to not open a restaurant IRL.

It usually only takes about 5-8 years to recover financially from restaurant ownership, so long as you don't end up in jail. But you do come away with some good recipes.

 

[kaijupanda]

Oh, I am expecting it to be a money pit and I expect them to be leaving with a huge debt they ain't gonna simply run away from.

Rolling around in my brain, thus far

• 1,000 Cr. License fee
• Startup costs. I'm not sure if 10k feel right. I'm more inclined to allow players some checks and use a simple table, or two. 1d6 x Y credits. Would TL or Government have an affect on this?
• Monthly Expenses - Payroll, Supplies, Maintenance. I figure this could just as easily be a modifier to determine profits, if I don't want to do so much math.
• Monthly Profit/Loss check.

I can also see things where if players try to cut corners, it could bring their costs down but cause problems elsewhere. If they buy substandard ingredients, their food quality would be low which could cause numerous problems, including illness, heavy fines come inspection time, and lost business. Payroll would affect the employees work, which could have a number of negative affects on just about everything. And, well, if you don't pay your utilities...

Likewise, if they go above the baseline on such things, their costs would increase, but it might have a positive affect later on.

 

[MCEvans]

Rolling around in my brain, thus far

• 1,000 Cr. License fee
• Startup costs. I'm not sure if 10k feel right. I'm more inclined to allow players some checks and use a simple table, or two. 1d6 x Y credits. Would TL or Government have an affect on this?
• Monthly Expenses - Payroll, Supplies, Maintenance. I figure this could just as easily be a modifier to determine profits, if I don't want to do so much math.
• Monthly Profit/Loss check.

I see the License fee being based on the government type/level (100Cr x Gov)

Fines being a factor of the Law Level (150Cr x LL x Variable)
Variable = Minor=1, Major=5, Extreme=10

The start up cost would be based on TL. (25kCR x TL)

But with the time limit 3-9 months for starship repair or the like I would direct them to more short term ventures i.e. Bodyguards, guides, Private Investigations or Freelance Research that can only be done on planet.
Restaurant - 2-5 year lease, suppliers 2-4 year contracts, employees 1-3 year labor contracts (if unionized). This type of venture would keep them planet bound well past the time there ship was fixed and the ship might:devil:have been used as collateral for the start up costs so a 2nd mortgage on the ship.
Just remember to try to link it to your campaign or things might get majorly derailed and you will have one heck of a time getting them back on track.

 

[saundby]

Oh, I am expecting it to be a money pit and I expect them to be leaving with a huge debt they ain't gonna simply run away from.

Perfect.

Rolling around in my brain, thus far

• 1,000 Cr. License fee
• Startup costs. I'm not sure if 10k feel right. I'm more inclined to allow players some checks and use a simple table, or two. 1d6 x Y credits. Would TL or Government have an affect on this?
• Monthly Expenses - Payroll, Supplies, Maintenance. I figure this could just as easily be a modifier to determine profits, if I don't want to do so much math.
• Monthly Profit/Loss check.

I'd require them to get several licenses. Law Level +/- 1D3, perhaps, with some mutual interdependencies that are resolvable only through successful Broker, Bribery, or Admin checks as appropriate. Minimum of Business License, Business Name Registration, Food Service License, Alcohol License, Fire Marshal Inspection, Electrical Inspection, plus food handling certifications for all employees. Unless it's a pretty low law level world. Then consider adding: environmental licenses, material handling licenses (greases and oils and fats), special health concerns licenses/inspections/menu approvals (food allergies, foodborne diseases of current special interest to the authorities), fire fighting training, emergency response training, requirements to act as a community shelter or provide special meals to the indigent, etc., medical incident response training/site licensing, restroom licenses, water use licenses, anything else you can think of as a bored local functionary who's convinced that anyone selling a ten credit sandwich is raking it in and your department needs more money.

I'd have the biggies cost about 1KCr, the rest 1d6x100Cr.

Startup costs (other than the above) should be about 1d6 x 10% the cost of buying the land and building outright. Or closer to 20KCr, if you want to go easy on them. Government and law level should give DMs.

I can also see things where if players try to cut corners, it could bring their costs down but cause problems elsewhere. If they buy substandard ingredients, their food quality would be low which could cause numerous problems, including illness, heavy fines come inspection time, and lost business. Payroll would affect the employees work, which could have a number of negative affects on just about everything. And, well, if you don't pay your utilities...

Likewise, if they go above the baseline on such things, their costs would increase, but it might have a positive affect later on.

Hee hee hee. :devil:

You're well on your way.

 

[kaijupanda]

But with the time limit 3-9 months for starship repair or the like I would direct them to more short term ventures i.e. Bodyguards, guides, Private Investigations or Freelance Research that can only be done on planet.

They were hoping to keep it running beyond that time, leaving it in the "capable" hands of someone they hire with the hopes they'll be able to chain it out, eventually on a grander scale.

Their plans have changed somewhat over the days, in that they're looking at doing the more mobile route inspired by all those trailers and buses you see around during fairs. The Taco Bus, is what they plan to call it. They don't need a very big vehicle or ship to do this, so they're likely gonna take the first one with them. I'm not entirely sure. Becoming fast food moguls seems their ultimate goal.

 

[Galadrion]

If it was my game, I'd probably use the Merchant Prince business rules, with the player's understanding that the character was committing to staying around a while - at a minimum, the three months that is a single turn in that minigame. And if he's looking at selling out of his business that quickly, a lot of buyers are going to look at the "opportunity" with a rather jaundiced eye. Trying to sell a business less than three to five years after establishing it won't usually pay out well unless a competitor initiates a buyout for some reason.

If the player wants to do something similar, but it's pretty well established that he's not going to sticking around long-term, I'd probably set up something more in line with an improvised adventure rather than a business entity. I'd still be looking at those rules to eyeball a sense of scale, though - I'd draw up something according to those rules for my own use behind the scenes, and approximate the numbers I'd feed to the player from that, adjusted for the time and effort the character puts in.

 

[Hyphen]

I mentioned something to Andrew a while back about another board I'm on that has a 'Thanks' button. A lot of these forum programs have it. I think it would go over well here. But it might not - you never know.

Could be a hedge against the Traveller Black Hole of Quality^TM !!!

 

[kaladorn]

Ahem!

I'm all for inconveniencing players, however:

1) Don't frustrate them so much they never try new ideas. I've seen it done.

2) Someboy famous once said that this is about adventures in space, not adventures in accounting or something to that effect. Make your administrative task somewhat light but take into account what the players have as skills.

If one of them is a masterful steward (or whatever MgT calls the skill), then they may have a bang-up cook/chef available.

Can they offer off world food product using their merchant contacts? That's a premium value add but possible complication source (extra permits/health issues).

What is the competition situation like and why? In our real world, it is brutally competitive because (really) just about anyone can open a restuarant and try to make a go of it - no huge inventory to stock, suppliers easily found in a city, minimal skills required of staff, etc. But the low barrier to entry makes it a cut throat market where most business fail. But then again, most businesss don't have PCs involved... so maybe their skills or innovative offerings give them a better chance to succeed.

Tech level may infuence things (at one level, maybe machines do all the cooking....) but more importantly, government or law level. Specifically, some government types may be more or less union or bureaucracy friendly. In some place with powerful unions or lots of inspectors, it'll be a challenge to get going. The lower the law level, the less enforcement policy will have (regardless of what it is) but the higher the law level, the more likely the officials are corrupt. Really, medium law is almost the worst to deal with since it isn't totally corrupt and it does inflict inspection and requirements regularly.

I'd treat is as a background activity with an average result yielding slight income (after all, they are sinking money and time into it) with some chance of a better outcome or a failure of small or large proportion. I'd also be tempted to increase their odds of a profit if they performed direct player actions to make the thing a success (guest appearances from a bona-fide War Hero at the cafe, some off world spices in the gravy from the steward, a commercial recorded by the party's pet noble, etc). At least, I'd do that if I wanted to make this a focus of the RPing sessions.

Ultimately, you want to make progress for players slow and challenging, but not disuading and frustrating. It's okay for authors to do this to a protagonist, but for you to do this to people doing this for a hobby risks them throwing up their hands and packing in the game.

But you know your group. Just keep an eye out for excessive frustration.

 

[rancke]

What's the law level of the world? Maybe there's no need to get permits. Just rent a shack and a kitchen range (don't forget the deposits) and open a greasy spoon. (And start a turf war with the competition).


Hans

 

[kaijupanda]

I don't want to make it any more complicated than the existing rules for running corporations in Merchant Prince. All the ideas here have been great for me trying to cobble something up. The shady marketer in the group is already starting to think of how he can use the restaurant as a front for other things.

They're stuck on a TL 9, law level 8 water world.

 

[Strummist]

The biggest business headaches I've encountered in the real word are certification - permits etc, and with insurance. For example, to arrange the delivery of a water tanker to a small music festival required a traffic plan, temporary stoplights and liability insurance - the paperwork and time involved far exceeded the actual delivery cost of the water - all in to arange two trucks over a weekend took several months and half a dozen specialists. And that's just the water - similar or greater problems were encountered arranging temporary buses, an alcohol licence, etc etc.

Food is a nightmare - it was easier to require subcontractors to do the necessary paperwork.